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danielost

what is science.

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I have been told on several different threads that either I don't understand what science or the topic we ar. disucciong is. So I am going to tell you what science is. This will nit be a text book answer, this will be it really is.

To make it simple science is guess work. You see a reaction and you guess about what caused it. In other words you make a theory about what caused the reaction. Then you set out to prove your theory. If you got it right it becomes a law if others can also do the experiment with the same results.

Many say the science wasn't born until the age of ressaening. But I say that the first human/oid(for those of you who think man has evolved) that chipped a rock to make the first cutting tool was using the scientifc methoid.

This also shows what is wrong with the theory of evolution, we annot prove our theories.

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At least science is based on evidence, unlike some other ideologies.

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Yes after the experiment it is.

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Uh...no, science is not about "guessing". Science is a method of investigation that allows us form testable hypotheses based on the evidence available. A theory is a very, very strongly supported hypothesis. Science is not "guesswork".

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Posted (edited)

Uh...no, science is not about "guessing". Science is a method of investigation that allows us form testable hypotheses based on the evidence available. A theory is a very, very strongly supported hypothesis. Science is not "guesswork".

:tu:

Science is guessing... yeah right.

Edited to add: Science is first and foremost about observation.

Science is in the everyday world, not just in labs. You observe that your car isn't working. Why isn't it working? It won't start. Why won't it start? It just clicks when you turn the key. Probably the starter. Replace the starter, car works. BOOM! Science!

Observe, analyse, interpret.

Oh, and evolution is one of THE most proven theories that we have today. There are mountains of evidence for it. Without it we would not have genetics, embryology, germ theory, antibiotics, hell, most of medical science today.

Edited by Imaginarynumber1
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I have been told on several different threads that either I don't understand what science or the topic we ar. disucciong is.

I'm afraid that the rest of your post rather proves the point.

So I am going to tell you what science is. This will nit be a text book answer, this will be it really is.

No, it's your OPINION on what science is. There is a huge difference between opinion and fact. The reality is you don't get to decide on the definition of science any more than I do or my cat does.

This is what science ACTUALLY is:

Science (from Latin scientia, meaning "knowledge") is a systematic enterprise that builds and organizes knowledge in the form of testable explanations and predictions about the universe. In an older and closely related meaning, "science" also refers to a body of knowledge itself, of the type that can be rationally explained and reliably applied. A practitioner of science is known as a scientist.

Source: Wikipedia

To make it simple science is guess work.

To make it simple, you haven't got the vaguest clue what you are talking about.

You see a reaction and you guess about what caused it.

There is no guess work involved.

In other words you make a theory about what caused the reaction. Then you set out to prove your theory.

No, this is a hypothesis, not a theory.

A hypothesis (plural hypotheses) is a proposed explanation for a phenomenon. For a hypothesis to be a scientific hypothesis, the scientific method requires that one can test it. Scientists generally base scientific hypotheses on previous observations that cannot satisfactorily be explained with the available scientific theories.

Source: Wikipedia

If you got it right it becomes a law if others can also do the experiment with the same results.

No, this is a theory not a Law.

In science, the term "theory" refers to "a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world, based on a body of facts that have been repeatedly confirmed through observation and experiment." Theories must also meet further requirements, such as the ability to make falsifiable predictions with consistent accuracy across a broad area of scientific inquiry, and production of strong evidence in favor of the theory from multiple independent sources.

Source: Wikipedia

Laws differ from scientific theories in that they do not posit a mechanism or explanation of phenomena: they are merely distillations of the results of repeated observation. As such, a law is limited in applicability to circumstances resembling those already observed, and may be found to be false when extrapolated.

Source: Wikipedia

Many say the science wasn't born until the age of ressaening.

They say that this was when modern, formal, scientific methodology was born, not quite the same.

But I say that the first human/oid(for those of you who think man has evolved) that chipped a rock to make the first cutting tool was using the scientifc methoid.

I tend to agree with you here... to a degree.

This also shows what is wrong with the theory of evolution, we annot prove our theories.

Nope, not true at all. There is nothing wrong with the theory of evolution, it has a huge amount of supporting evidence. That some chose to ignore that evidence because it doesn't fit their belief system is neither here nor there.

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Uh...no, science is not about "guessing". Science is a method of investigation that allows us form testable hypotheses based on the evidence available. A theory is a very, very strongly supported hypothesis. Science is not "guesswork".

And the diffaniion of a hypotheses is.

And before you investigate something what are you doing.

Someone I am sure will say it is an educated guess. But, that just means it is a guess. For anyone else who want to use big words like hypotheses come with diffanition in post.

Sorry about my spelling. I tried to find a spell checker but didn't find one I could use on this tablet.

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Hypothesizing never entails a little guess work? Unless it turns into a solid conclusion I would say it's entirely guess work.

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Thank you dwarf, but you don't seem to understand either what I said or what you posted.

Long before you ca do an experiment. You have to ask yourself, what happens if I hit this rock with a harder rock and before that you have to sk how did this shar rock come into being. Unless you saw one rock hit another by accident and it broke. Then you can skip the first guess.

When you think about how something happens you have to think how did that happen. I did not nor will u rwad that huge post you made. Because it is of no importants. The very first step in science is to see something happen. The very second step is to wonder(guess) how it happened. Then you do your experiments. And those first two step is called a hypotheses. That is a guess.

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There is a lot of guessing involved. Though the wasp didn't intend to, he showed how Wikipedias definition noted that, choosing the word prediction instead. Guessing is a necessary step. They gave it its own fancy word even. Hypothesis. Now let's test it out. So that's not all the method involves (guessing), but its a damn important part.

No guessing involved in science? False. Science only guesses? No. Guess, test.

The part I find annoying, and I'm guessing danielost does too, is when people who put holy science on the pedestal say that anything that hasnt been, or can't be tested, isn't worthy of being considered a part of reality. It is from this point that all are left with only guesses. So science hasn't been involved yet, through testing, but some more militant proponents of science in debates like those found here, are, andoften find those who guess about something without testing (when often a way to test hasn't been figured out) of lower intelligence ormaturity.

But yeah. Guessing involved.

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If you don't like the way I word things thendon't read my posts. I am tried of you calling me stupid because I don't word things the way ou like. I do not work for you and I am nit taking a class from you. My opionons are as valid as anybody elses. I don't have a phd and I can't spell so I try not to use big words. You got all upset in the other hread, because I aaid a computer annt fly ike a human can. That was the only statement I made and it is a correct statement. I was like you in thinoing that te little downy feather was sticking to me due to static electricity. Until I read a science artcle that said otherwise back in the eighties.I ill try to stay out of your threads. But, that is not a promise.

I will not reply to you anymore on this thread.

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Science really isn't about simply "guessing" (as in pulling an idea out of thin air). Before one can offer up a decent hypothesis one needs an understanding of the particular science involved and the scientific principles that will come into play.

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Science has also predicted, black holes, elements etc etc which has nothing to do with guessing, predictions come from the method of observation, the same method that determines the good ideas from bad, as I tend to use the word Idea over guess, as guessing can be far too chaotic, without any information to apply to a guess you could be guessing for eternity, and that would be of no use to science.

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Analyses and guessing are not the same thing hypothesis=/= a guess. A hypothesis is formed based on the evidence observed. Those who cannot understand that have a flawed view of science and may want to try opening a book once in awhile.

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as my students would tell you, science is about answering "why" and "how" (mostly because that's what I say incessantly in science lessons).

"why does that happen?"

"How does that happen?"

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Posted (edited)

The very first step in science is to see something happen. The very second step is to wonder(guess) how it happened. Then you do your experiments. And those first two step is called a hypotheses. That is a guess.

The first step is a thought the second step if a plausible answer to that thought. The rest is history. All science all experiments all that results reley on a hypothisis that works in the relme of physics. Thats why we have cars and air plains. Medicine and artifitial limbs with robotics. A space program and people walking on the moon.

It all starts with an idea and the rest pretty much explains itself. What is the issue. Im not getting your question.

Putting a guess into practicum is the whole idea my friend.

Edited by The Silver Thong
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Posted (edited)

It seems the usual bunch aren't even willing to admit that the rock solid foundation of science has flakes of guessing in it. An educated guess becomes not a guess at all in their description, which seems to beg the question: what is to be learned from that which is apparently already known?

I think the book that needs to be opened to delve deeper into this conundrum is one on predisposition, debate tactics, and linguistics.

"Well.. a guess isn't a guess if it was founded on information gathered! Its just considered a less than known fact!"

Sufficed with the obligatory shot at intelligence.

"Try reading a book once in your life!"

Okay, man. Ooookay..

Seeing how guessing is one part of a whole process? Expected and true.

Seeing people claim practices of science involve no guessing, and side stepping the word entirely through claiming that guesses backed by previous knowledge or evidence are no longer a guess whatsoever? Also expected surprisingly, yet a bit asinine and overboard. Just an example of spin put on things for the sake of promoting or defending a stance. If only they could do it without insulting, because as shown, its unfounded,and comes off as lacking certain social etiquette.

Edited by _Only

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I have been told on several different threads that either I don't understand what science or the topic we ar. disucciong is. So I am going to tell you what science is. This will nit be a text book answer, this will be it really is.

To make it simple science is guess work. You see a reaction and you guess about what caused it. In other words you make a theory about what caused the reaction. Then you set out to prove your theory. If you got it right it becomes a law if others can also do the experiment with the same results.

Many say the science wasn't born until the age of ressaening. But I say that the first human/oid(for those of you who think man has evolved) that chipped a rock to make the first cutting tool was using the scientifc methoid.

This also shows what is wrong with the theory of evolution, we annot prove our theories.

Are you seeing science as a one stop shop of answers? Because if you think it is static, then you are completely not understanding the concept, let alone the process. It is not a repository, a container, or fast rule. Science is the pursuit of knowledge, it is fluid and ever changing it is not guess work, but the best answer we can possibly obtain with what we have. Where science leaves the realm of guesswork is empirical evidence and peer review. If you want to put something forth, a paper, a hypothesis, an equation, whatever it may be, it has to be verified. You cannot just claim a thing and say "put it in the big science book, we head scientists approve" it has to pass peer review and demonstrated repeatability. Unlike religion, where you can say "God did it" with science you are accountable, and you have to take the committee to this God fellow and get him to demonstrate his claim for everyone in the world, so we all know he can actually do what he says he can do, then it can be a recognised claim. We all have to agree, what is not completely fair about that process? Science was always there, we just did not read or understand all of it. But we are getting there.

And that is why Evolution is the correct model.

What do you mean you cannot prove a theory? Why not?

I do not think most great discoveries come with a great cry of EUREKA! but rather a quiet "that's odd".

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...Seeing how guessing is one part of a whole process? Expected and true.

Seeing people claim practices of science involve no guessing, and side stepping the word entirely through claiming that guesses backed by previous knowledge or evidence are no longer a guess whatsoever? Also expected surprisingly, yet a bit asinine and overboard. Just an example of spin put on things for the sake of promoting or defending a stance. If only they could do it without insulting, because as shown, its unfounded,and comes off as lacking certain social etiquette.

I think we need to visit the definition of "to guess" here.

From Miriam Webster website:

To guess

verb \ˈges\

transitive verb

1

: to form an opinion of from little or no evidence

2

: believe, suppose <I guess you're right>

3

: to arrive at a correct conclusion about by conjecture, chance, or intuition <guess the answer>

So, by looking at this definition we can pretty much see that this is really not what's taking place in science. Science requires evidence, guessing does not.

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Posted (edited)

as my students would tell you, science is about answering "why" and "how" (mostly because that's what I say incessantly in science lessons).

"why does that happen?"

"How does that happen?"

This too sums it up well..

I am more of a visual learner than anything else.. I learn a lot form books, but MORE so through visual aid and because of visual aid... I pay close attention to science documentaries and it encourages me to go and read up on it more..It can be fun and when you find yourself getting stuck in, you do't see the time go in.. It's all worth it though ..

Edited by Beckys_Mom

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I think we need to visit the definition of "to guess" here.

From Miriam Webster website:

So, by looking at this definition we can pretty much see that this is really not what's taking place in science. Science requires evidence, guessing does not.

That's fine, but you should instead be looking up the form of guess I referred to: an educated guess, because most guesses fall in the area in between our two definitions. I didn't think I would be forced to further explain this fact.

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Posted (edited)

That's fine, but you should instead be looking up the form of guess I referred to: an educated guess, because most guesses fall in the area in between our two definitions. I didn't think I would be forced to further explain this fact.

To look at the definition of - Educated guess ...It reads...

Main Entry: educated guess

Part of Speech:

Definition: a guess based on knowledge and experience, making it more likely to be correct

Dictionary.com's 21st Century Lexicon

Copyright © 2003-2013 Dictionary.com, LLC

Taken from http://dictionary.re.../educated guess

Which I beleive is correct.. An educated guess is based on knowledge and experience...

Edited by Beckys_Mom

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Understanding Science

To understand what science is, just look around you. What do you see? Perhaps, your hand on the mouse, a computer screen, papers, ballpoint pens, the family cat, the sun shining through the window …. Science is, in one sense, our knowledge of all that — all the stuff that is in the universe: from the tiniest subatomic particles in a single atom of the metal in your computer's circuits, to the nuclear reactions that formed the immense ball of gas that is our sun, to the complex chemical interactions and electrical fluctuations within your own body that allow you to read and understand these words. But just as importantly, science is also a reliable process by which we learn about all that stuff in the universe. However, science is different from many other ways of learning because of the way it is done. Science relies on testing ideas with evidence gathered from the natural world. This website will help you learn more about science as a process of learning about the natural world and access the parts of science that affect your life.

    • Science focuses exclusively on the natural world, and does not deal with supernatural explanations.
    • Science is a way of learning about what is in the natural world, how the natural world works, and how the natural world got to be the way it is. It is not simply a collection of facts; rather it is a path to understanding.
    • Scientists work in many different ways, but all science relies on testing ideas by figuring out what expectations are generated by an idea and making observations to find out whether those expectations hold true.
    • Accepted scientific ideas are reliable because they have been subjected to rigorous testing, but as new evidence is acquired and new perspectives emerge these ideas can be revised.
    • Science is a community endeavor. It relies on a system of checks and balances, which helps ensure that science moves in the direction of greater accuracy and understanding. This system is facilitated by diversity within the scientific community, which offers a broad range of perspectives on scientific ideas.

I would say that science starts with a question.

Nibs

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It seems the usual bunch aren't even willing to admit that the rock solid foundation of science has flakes of guessing in it. An educated guess becomes not a guess at all in their description, which seems to beg the question: what is to be learned from that which is apparently already known?

I think the book that needs to be opened to delve deeper into this conundrum is one on predisposition, debate tactics, and linguistics.

"Well.. a guess isn't a guess if it was founded on information gathered! Its just considered a less than known fact!"

Sufficed with the obligatory shot at intelligence.

"Try reading a book once in your life!"

Okay, man. Ooookay..

Seeing how guessing is one part of a whole process? Expected and true.

Seeing people claim practices of science involve no guessing, and side stepping the word entirely through claiming that guesses backed by previous knowledge or evidence are no longer a guess whatsoever? Also expected surprisingly, yet a bit asinine and overboard. Just an example of spin put on things for the sake of promoting or defending a stance. If only they could do it without insulting, because as shown, its unfounded,and comes off as lacking certain social etiquette.

I think initially science or at least 'scientists' guessed the answers to questions to formulate a direction of research, but I don't think that's as acceptable in the modern scientific community, I think anyone can guess an answer to a question that's unknown...because that's really all you can do until you apply scientific method, but lets make this clear science doesn't guess, scientists do and that's the difference.

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I would say that science starts with a question.

Nibs

true.... you first need the question in order to find the answer

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