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If Races Were Reversed


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^^^^ Let's add a line to the list. "It's more likely that you'll be attacked or murdered by a Black man than a White man." It's great progressive agitprop, typical of the Huffington Post, though. I won't even mention affirmative action.

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^^^^ Let's add a line to the list. "It's more likely that you'll be attacked or murdered by a Black man than a White man." It's great progressive agitprop, typical of the Huffington Post, though. I won't even mention affirmative action.

Would you really include that as advice for Zimmerman?

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A brief part of the interview by Barbara Walters with Zimmerman's parents can be found here: http://abcnews.go.com/US/zimmermans-parents-hiding-enormous-amount-death-threats-abc/story?id=19670456

They are in hiding too. The father claims they have received death threats and that they are not racist.

Would really like to believe them. It is also not fair that his parents are suffering like this.

What Witness #9 said about their family being racist is too hard to shake away.

If what she said is true then it is a tough price for their family to pay for being racist.

Hope they are all safe. The best they can do is meet with Trayvon's parents.

Zimmerman's mother is apologizing to them via the interview but she needs to do it face to face.

His brother needs to stop making it worse for all of them.

Zimmerman himself needs to apologize too.

Instead it seems him and his lawyers are going to try and capitalize for "compensation" from the state according to an interview they recently gave post-trial.

Zimmerman has the perfect opportunity to show remorse, even if it was self defense and it was the last thing Zimmerman wanted to do, many do not believe it was self defense and also believe it was the first thing he wanted to do, but even if it was all as he claims then he still has not recognized he took a human life, took a son away from the Martin family, and made any outreach toward them.

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That's what I thought at first too but then I looked into the evidence more deeply and found that Trayvon was looking in houses as he was walking down the street. That's what raised Zimmerman's suspicion. This wouldn't sound like a big deal except that this neighborhood had suffered from a rash of burglaries prior to Martin's death. Based on Martin's suspicious behavior, he may have been the burglar.

Not true. No one remembers seeing TM walking along but GZ. We have only GZ's account that TM was "looking about (translation: casing homes to burglarize). There isn't one shred of evidence to support GZ's claim, and there is certainly no witness claiming he or she observed TM going up to doors of homes or looking into windows. I'm sure you probably did read or hear that claim, but please remember that all stories that attract publicity inevitably get false accounts started and circulating (for example, Barak Obama was born in Kenya, or Indonesia, he's a secret Muslim, he "pals" around with terrorists).

But let's say for argument's sake TM was seen looking into people's windows, or trying the door knobs. Would that make GZ engaging TM in a fight, then shooting him the right course of action. He had already called police and knew they were on the way. He could have kept an eye on the suspect from a safe distance to aid police in apprehending TM. If TM's actions escalated into a real crime, like breaking into a home or robbing someone walking by, GZ could have called 911 to report an emergency. It was still wrong of him to play cop with a loaded gun.

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Zimmerman is a Joe Horn Jr. except in this case the burglary was imaginary.

YouTube search term: The complete Joe Horn 9-11 call

Edited by The world needs you
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Zimmerman defended his life when he was assaulted to the point where his existence was endangered. He never attacked Trayvon Martin, so the mainstream cable/network news version of this event came straight from Fantasyland, based on wishful thinking. That said, I would have backed TM if he had shot GZ while his head was repeatedly pounded into concrete. The jury based their decision on the evidence that showed that Zimmerman saved his own life and that he was innocent of homicide/manslaughter/"child-abuse", so the case is closed, in both the figurative and literal sense of the word.

But you don't know that GZ never attacked TM, or that TM was the one that attacked GZ. No one knows that but GZ. There are no other living witnesses. Perhaps GZ is telling the truth, but it's also very possible he's not. If in fact it was GZ that went up to TM directly with his weapon drawn and said "Stop right there punk or I'll shoot!" and TM lunged at GZ in hope of knocking the gun out of his hand, a struggle ensued, and GZ got control of the gun, then pulled the trigger, would you not agree that GZ would have considerable motivation to give a very different account to police? I'm not saying I think that's what happened. I'm only saying no one knows what happened except GZ, and he has a strong motive to spin the story so he looks a lot more innocent than may be the truth.

Please stop saying "TM attacked GZ" as though its an established fact. You can say it's your theory, but that's all it can ever be--a theory.

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Jesus Christ

Mario, which is Jesus Christ, Victim Trayvon or Shooter George? I can't figure this one out. . .

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Not true. No one remembers seeing TM walking along but GZ. We have only GZ's account that TM was "looking about (translation: casing homes to burglarize). There isn't one shred of evidence to support GZ's claim, and there is certainly no witness claiming he or she observed TM going up to doors of homes or looking into windows. I'm sure you probably did read or hear that claim, but please remember that all stories that attract publicity inevitably get false accounts started and circulating (for example, Barak Obama was born in Kenya, or Indonesia, he's a secret Muslim, he "pals" around with terrorists).

But let's say for argument's sake TM was seen looking into people's windows, or trying the door knobs. Would that make GZ engaging TM in a fight, then shooting him the right course of action. He had already called police and knew they were on the way. He could have kept an eye on the suspect from a safe distance to aid police in apprehending TM. If TM's actions escalated into a real crime, like breaking into a home or robbing someone walking by, GZ could have called 911 to report an emergency. It was still wrong of him to play cop with a loaded gun.

"I've got the solution! Death penalty for looking into windows!" Too many armchair attorneys, too many neighborhood policing consultants--too many gunshots. In this case, even one was too many. . .

Edited by szentgyorgy
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Please stop saying "TM attacked GZ" as though its an established fact. You can say it's your theory, but that's all it can ever be--a theory.

I think the jury believed TM attacked George.

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Are you kidding me? I have worse arguments with my family and my friends. If you want *real* vitriol, check out some of those threatening Tweets. As for anger, it takes more than a mild (in my world) debate to cause it on my end of the screen (not bashing you).

This thread has been very heated at times, but not any more so than spiritual/religious, skeptical, ancient history, etc. etc. ones I've been on have been.

I'm more concerned with the nature of the debate being stunted because so many of us have our minds made up about aspects of this case.

It's as divisive as the OJ case for similar, but not identical, reasons. Even that statement I just made might cause someone (perhaps even me!) to remark, "Yeah, but white people didn't turn violent after the OJ verdict, and black people danced in the streets!" Well, yeah, that may all be true, but I was talking about divisiveness today. We need to get to that issue, or we could all implode with our respective militant certainties.

And, as we "all know," "white people" "can't dance" (especially not in the streets),

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About that letter posted from an anonymous black male, I think the author is predicting erroneously. I don't think GZ is going to have anywhere near a tough te now as the author thinks. The death threats will pass as time progresses and this trial becomes more and more history. People forget, lose interest, focus on something new. O'Mara said something about GZ may leave Central Fla., and even change his name. He will be able to do this, too, if he gets the money I imagine he will from interviews and maybe a book and/movie deal. He doesn't look all that distinctive to me. I'm not sure I could pick him out of a line up even now. It will be even harder if he changes his appearance...say, grows a beard or mustache, grows his hair out or gets a toupee, maybe wears dark glasses a lot. If he changes his name, the disguise will be complete. I would bet he could blend into a crowd as good as Where's Waldo. As for employment, I can see a lot of employers calling h with job offers. There are people who would get off on GZ's infamy, or know their customer-base would.

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And, as we "all know," "white people" "can't dance" (especially not in the streets),

For those of us old enough, Gene Kelley was a great dancer.

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About that letter posted from an anonymous black male, I think the author is predicting erroneously. I don't think GZ is going to have anywhere near a tough te now as the author thinks. The death threats will pass as time progresses and this trial becomes more and more history. People forget, lose interest, focus on something new. O'Mara said something about GZ may leave Central Fla., and even change his name. He will be able to do this, too, if he gets the money I imagine he will from interviews and maybe a book and/movie deal. He doesn't look all that distinctive to me. I'm not sure I could pick him out of a line up even now. It will be even harder if he changes his appearance...say, grows a beard or mustache, grows his hair out or gets a toupee, maybe wears dark glasses a lot. If he changes his name, the disguise will be complete. I would bet he could blend into a crowd as good as Where's Waldo. As for employment, I can see a lot of employers calling h with job offers. There are people who would get off on GZ's infamy, or know their customer-base would.

Yes, this was thought as well when it was read. Zimmerman is going to make money for killing someone. A huge swath of our population, maybe half but doubtful more than that or maybe not even that, will support Zimmerman. Cash contributions, buying products, job offers, and book and movie deals of course. Fox analyst anyone? Being a millionaire will no where allow that forecast to come true.

Zimmerman has his own choices to make and could bring our nation closer if he came out apologetic or devoted his life to helping others especially from those he has taken away from. His right as an American is to do as he wishes in any matter. Unfortunately it might be the worst of what America has to offer, doubling down on divisiveness, making money off of murder, and suing as many as possible.

It was also actor Lance Gross who wrote that letter but did not sign it. It can be verified via the link below it that leads to the article about it.


If I had a son, he'd look like Trayvon," Mr. Obama said.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-57403200-503544/obama-if-i-had-a-son-hed-look-like-trayvon/

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If races were reversed
It's time for white people -- especially white parents -- to listen, to learn, and to speak out on the terribly painful loss of Trayvon Martin.

If my white 14-year-old son Luke had walked out that same night, in that same neighborhood, just to get a snack, he would have come back to his dad unharmed -- and would still be with me and Joy today. Everyone, being honest with ourselves, knows that is true. But when black 17-year-old Trayvon Martin went out that night, just to get a snack, he ended up dead -- and is no longer with his dad and mom. Try to imagine how that feels, as his parents.

Lament From a White Father

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For those of us old enough, Gene Kelley was a great dancer.

Don't forget Marie Taglioni, Anna Pavlova, Tamara Karsavina, Alicia Markova, and George Balanchine.

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The crime statistics speak for themselves. White people don't need to learn ****. Do you still consider Zimmerman white LBA?

Edited by Glorfindel
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Would you really include that as advice for Zimmerman?

Have you seen the death threats against him? Do you really even need to ask that question?

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But you don't know that GZ never attacked TM, or that TM was the one that attacked GZ. No one knows that but GZ. There are no other living witnesses. Perhaps GZ is telling the truth, but it's also very possible he's not. If in fact it was GZ that went up to TM directly with his weapon drawn and said "Stop right there punk or I'll shoot!" and TM lunged at GZ in hope of knocking the gun out of his hand, a struggle ensued, and GZ got control of the gun, then pulled the trigger, would you not agree that GZ would have considerable motivation to give a very different account to police? I'm not saying I think that's what happened. I'm only saying no one knows what happened except GZ, and he has a strong motive to spin the story so he looks a lot more innocent than may be the truth.

Please stop saying "TM attacked GZ" as though its an established fact. You can say it's your theory, but that's all it can ever be--a theory.

Anything is *possible*, but the injuries, shown in the photographs, are consistent with the narrative that was presented in court. They show that Trayvon indeed attacked George. The best pathologists agree. It's hard to argue with both the pictures and the pathologists' explanations of them. Now, you raise a good point when you say that only TM and GZ know what took place before TM beat up GZ. You're also correct in saying that George might be lying about some aspects of the event. The prosecution failed to meet its burden of proof, though. There's no doubt that cameras and witnesses *might* have provided evidence that led to Zimmerman's conviction, but his acquittal was the right decision, based on the available evidence.

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This thread has been very heated at times, but not any more so than spiritual/religious, skeptical, ancient history, etc. etc. ones I've been on have been.

I'm more concerned with the nature of the debate being stunted because so many of us have our minds made up about aspects of this case.

It's as divisive as the OJ case for similar, but not identical, reasons. Even that statement I just made might cause someone (perhaps even me!) to remark, "Yeah, but white people didn't turn violent after the OJ verdict, and black people danced in the streets!" Well, yeah, that may all be true, but I was talking about divisiveness today. We need to get to that issue, or we could all implode with our respective militant certainties.

And, as we "all know," "white people" "can't dance" (especially not in the streets),

I blame much of it on demagogues and the media, who have investments in creating divisions of all kinds. They claim that we need to have a conversation about race. Many people think that they should just **** about it. It's not a dialogue; it's an obsessive monologue. That creates discord and disharmony more than understanding. You're right in that many people, of all races, will pick sides based on tribalism, as well as political beliefs. It's hard to get around that part of life. Our different opinions should be respected if they're based on our objective, non-ideological interpretations of evidence, though. That courtesy should be extended to individuals on both sides of this discussion. We all have a right to our consciences and opinions if they come from a good place, one not dictated by blind ideology that warps us to the point where we can't face facts. All of us are susceptible to failing in that regard from time to time. I disagree with those who disagree with me (ha), but I don't want to be disagreeable, as they have a right to their opinions.

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So if the races were reversed and a black guy shot an Hispanic guy, the implication being made here is that white people would be up in arms about it if he got a verdict of not guilty?

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So if the races were reversed and a black guy shot an Hispanic guy, the implication being made here is that white people would be up in arms about it if he got a verdict of not guilty?

Who implied that? I doubt that it would even make the network news.

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Who implied that? I doubt that it would even make the network news.

not even a blip. However from what I saw was Z man discribed as a white man.

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I blame much of it on demagogues and the media, who have investments in creating divisions of all kinds. They claim that we need to have a conversation about race. Many people think that they should just **** about it. It's not a dialogue; it's an obsessive monologue. That creates discord and disharmony more than understanding. You're right in that many people, of all races, will pick sides based on tribalism, as well as political beliefs. It's hard to get around that part of life. Our different opinions should be respected if they're based on our objective, non-ideological interpretations of evidence, though. That courtesy should be extended to individuals on both sides of this discussion. We all have a right to our consciences and opinions if they come from a good place, one not dictated by blind ideology that warps us to the point where we can't face facts. All of us are susceptible to failing in that regard from time to time. I disagree with those who disagree with me (ha), but I don't want to be disagreeable, as they have a right to their opinions.

there is only one RACE......... the human race

in time ALL will become one.

gravity

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Who implied that? I doubt that it would even make the network news.

You got that right. There's just too much crime, too little time.

But the race-reversal question is being tossed around in the general sense not focusing on media coverage. Implications vary but often it's that the black person can't get away with it like Zimmerman. Our prisons are definitely jam packed with blacks so that's a statistic that's being used in that line of reasoning.

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there is only one RACE......... the human race

in time ALL will become one.

gravity

This is part of the double standard. White people are told it doesn't matter if there's racism towards white people, those white people shouldn't matter if you don't know them because we are all the human race. We are told we have no connection to them so its racist to care. Then when a black kid gets shot, these same people start yelling about black rights, black pride and ending racism. What racism? I thought we were all the same race. Liberals are intent on promoting racial pride in non-whites, while telling whites they don't exist as a race. And this divisiveness is about as dangerous as it gets, because slowly white people are going to feel attacked (and they are being attacked), and this will slowly turn into racism and white pride. And the left will be helpless to fight against it, since the very real attacks on white people will justify the racism in these people's minds. Some day in the future, the left will be remembered in the same way the Nazis and the KKK are.

All become one? I have a feeling it will slip way into the opposite before everyone mixes together. And the far-left will be 99% responsible for it.

Edited by Glorfindel
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