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Still Waters

Transgender at age five

31 posts in this topic

She first insisted she was a boy at the age of 2. "I am a boy" became a constant theme in struggles over clothing, bathing, swimming, eating, playing. Eventually, a psychologist diagnosed gender identity disorder. Now Tyler 's parents allow him to live as a boy, and the 5-year-old is reveling in his new identity.

http://www.washingto...bU_story_4.html

http://www.dailymail...r-live-boy.html

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This is happening far too often nowadays.

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This is happening far too often nowadays.

Not any more or less than throughout history. Just because one is born with the genitalia of one gender, it does not necessarily follow that one IS that gender.

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I disagree. You're wants and not wants of your genetic features are irrelevant to what you are(all surgery does is cover up what you are). Trying to claim you're a woman or man when you were born into an XY/XX chromosome body of the other gender is ridiculous. It's no different than a white or black guy trying to legally change his race to Asian because that's what he wants to be.

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Ah, I see. So explain to me please, which gender a hermaphodite falls into.

http://9e.devbio.com/article.php?id=266

The link is to Developmental Biology.

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Ah, I see. So explain to me please, which gender a hermaphodite falls into.

http://9e.devbio.com...icle.php?id=266

The link is to Developmental Biology.

Hermaphrodites are an exception. I think they have to right to choose whichever gender they prefer considering they naturally have both.

I should clarify and say I don't see anything wrong with a man/women, or boy/girl in this case, dressing and acting like the other gender. I just don't think they should be able to legally document themselves as the other gender and be legally treated as one(allowing a boy to use the girls restroom and such).

If a girl wants to dress and act like a boy, what's wrong with just letting her do so without all this need to justify it?

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He's in for a hiding to nothing when he hits puberty and menstruates.

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I would point out that the need for all the fuss, is due in part to opinions like the one you just wrote, and please note that I am not criticizing you for having that opinion. If your body architecture says >>male<< but your genetic/hormonal/mental architecture says >>female<< and you do not have your gender legally reclassified, you can run into all kinds of problems.

Suppose for a moment that you are a genetic woman in a public restroom and a person walks in looking like a man in feminine clothing. You scream and call the police. Maybe the person is a pervert; maybe the person is up to no good; or maybe, they are transgendered and is using the restroom they feel comfortable in.

Just food for thought.

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Just because one is born with the genitalia of one gender, it does not necessarily follow that one IS that gender.

Yes it does.

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i wish him luck. he's got parents willing to help and learn, so that's something.

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Yes it does.

IIRC the possession of a penis means one's sex is male. One's gender OTOH is defined by a psycho-social framework.

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Even if they have the genitalia of one gender it doesn't mean something else isn't lacking to really make them that gender. I think its a birth defect like any other.

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Just because one is born with the genitalia of one gender, it does not necessarily follow that one IS that gender.

Agreed. I'm a heck of a lot more than just my genitals. People need to learn more about what gender is.

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I would point out that the need for all the fuss, is due in part to opinions like the one you just wrote, and please note that I am not criticizing you for having that opinion. If your body architecture says >>male<< but your genetic/hormonal/mental architecture says >>female<< and you do not have your gender legally reclassified, you can run into all kinds of problems.

Suppose for a moment that you are a genetic woman in a public restroom and a person walks in looking like a man in feminine clothing. You scream and call the police. Maybe the person is a pervert; maybe the person is up to no good; or maybe, they are transgendered and is using the restroom they feel comfortable in.

Just food for thought.

I could see that scenario happening since I've read a lot of stories where people call the cops for less. Maybe we should just do away with gender specific restrooms/services since the lines are apparently beginning to blur? It would certainly solve a lot of legal problems schools and other institutions around the country are having.

I'm also not trying to antagonize you or insult your position, but I simply cannot agree with the concept of creating legal/psychological vagaries to define if someone is a man or woman and then create a system in which everyone else is legally compelled to treat them as such regardless of the reality of their genetic disposition.

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Agreed. I'm a heck of a lot more than just my genitals. People need to learn more about what gender is.

Excuse me, but I believe we all have a clear hold on what gender means.

It wasn't implied that sex parts alone make a gender identification. But if you were born with one genders set, you are going to be that gender, or you will be transgendered.

Simple as that.

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Posted (edited)

Understanding Gender

What is Gender?

For many people, the terms “gender” and “sex” are interchangeable. This idea has become so common, particularly in western societies, that it is rarely questioned. Yet biological sex and gender are different; gender is not inherently connected to one’s physical anatomy.

Sex is biological and includes physical attributes such as sex chromosomes, gonads, sex hormones, internal reproductive structures, and external genitalia. At birth, it is used to identify individuals as male or female. Gender on the other hand is far more complicated. Along with one’s physical traits, it is the complex interrelationship between those traits and one’s internal sense of self as male, female, both or neither as well as one’s outward presentations and behaviors related to that perception.

https://www.gendersp...standing-gender

Gender identity disorder

Gender identity disorder is a conflict between a person's physical gender and the gender he or she identifies as. For example, a person identified as a boy may actually feel and act like a girl. The person is very uncomfortable with the gender they were born.

http://www.nlm.nih.g...icle/001527.htm

It isn't as simple as boy/girl.

Edited by JMPD1
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I think 5 is too early to make such a decision. How about if he/she changes mind again and wants to be a girl after all? Then the parents and that shrink look really stupid.

But anyway, the article should give pause to those who think that "homosexuality" is a "choice". Patently, sexuality (hetero, homo, bi, transgender, whatever) is NOT a "choice" but something genetically determined. Those of you believe otherwise, you REALLY have an issue with this case, since in your mind the parents are allowing a choice at an age where children should not choose.

Can´t argue both sides of the issue at the same time...

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Posted (edited)

IIRC the possession of a penis means one's sex is male. One's gender OTOH is defined by a psycho-social framework.

IIRC the possession of a penis means one's sex is male. One's gender OTOH is defined by a psycho-social framework.

The thing is, gender and sex are one and the same, naturally. Unless the person has a psychological event that makes them http://i.word.com/idictionary/transgender , meaning, if you have a vagina, you will always naturally always be the gender female. Any 'identification' otherwise is what brought the above term into existence.

Edited by _Only
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It isn't as simple as boy/girl.

Correct. Its as simple as boy, girl, or transgendered.

Again, no one has implied sex organs mean gender. But the two go hand in hand, unless the transgender psychologically chooses a new identity. This isn't new news, is it??

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I think 5 is too early to make such a decision. How about if he/she changes mind again and wants to be a girl after all? Then the parents and that shrink look really stupid.

But anyway, the article should give pause to those who think that "homosexuality" is a "choice". Patently, sexuality (hetero, homo, bi, transgender, whatever) is NOT a "choice" but something genetically determined. Those of you believe otherwise, you REALLY have an issue with this case, since in your mind the parents are allowing a choice at an age where children should not choose.

Can´t argue both sides of the issue at the same time...

You are missing one option to add to your two. A psychological choice made unconsciously and unwillingly. Much as someone chooses to be afraid of the dark. It isn't just born that way or conscious choice. People change their gender identity suddenlyat 15, and hate themselves for it. This shows that they weren't associated with the other gender at birth, and it wasn't a chosen shift. It was a hidden psychological,unwilling one. Harmful psychological sexual trauma has been shown to lead to gender identification issues. So at least one choice of the 3 has supporting evidence, making it the popular choice among behavioral experts.

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Excuse me only, but did you at least look at the links I provided? To use the words from the first link, there is an entire spectrum of sexuality, not merely restricted to male/female/transgender.

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Posted (edited)

Excuse me only, but did you at least look at the links I provided? To use the words from the first link, there is an entire spectrum of sexuality, not merely restricted to male/female/transgender.

Okay, so are we going to talk about gender identification, gender roles, or any other of your 'spectrum' categories in the article? Because they are all different things. I thought we were talking in this transgender identification thread about boys, girls, and transgenders.

But if we want to go through each of those categories and make a choice, tell me which options we would have to choose from: male, female, or fill in the gap.

I'd direct you to the transgender category, which is what I perhaps incorrectly assumed we were honed into here. I understand gender is largely socially defined, but that doesn't make it any less existent, or 'real', as undesirable its methods are.

So, if you're born with male or female parts, you will be of that gender unless you are transgendered. Its not solely because of them, but they are one part of many corresponding ones. Do you disagree?

Edit: your second article explains this well.

Edited by _Only

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So a psychologist has diagnosed "Gender Identity Disorder" as a psychological issue. So at 5 years old, is the only option here to allow this person to indulge in their psychological disorder? My mother has a psychological disorder - it's called Clinical Depression. But she doesn't "embrace her depression", she sees a psychologist regularly to live a life free from depression.

If this is a psychological problem, shouldn't the child receive psychological help in order to live as a girl? That's what most people do with psychological disorders, they attempt to work through them in order to live a normal life without that disorder controlling them. Agoraphobes (fear of outdoors) are encouraged to confront their psychological problem and overcome them. Anorexics are encouraged to overcome their psychological disorders and see themselves as beautiful people who aren't morbidly fat after all. Kleptomaniacs are encouraged to overcome their compulsion to steal things. The rule of thumb is that if you have a psychological disorder, you work with psychologists to overcome it (as do agoraphobes, anorexics, and kleptomaniacs, and anyone else with a Psychological disorder).

But not when it comes to gender identity disorder, it appears? In this psychological disorder, it appears the best thing to do is to let them "embrace their disorder" and live as a boy, even at the age of 5.

Of course, if this is a matter of genetics and not psychology, then why is it being treated as a psychological disorder?

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Begging everyone's pardon...there is something very...not right...with the whole story. I think rather than the kid being 'transgendered'...it is a problem with the parents...and what kid states they are a boy at two...at two...girl vs boy...isn't even a brain wave thought...so..it must have been instilled by the parents...you know...some parents are just not into the whole...parenting...thing.

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I'd advise that future members who comment in this thread keep in mind that it was started 1 1/2 years ago.

ETA: I just 'liked' someone's comment that hasn't been active in over a year.

Edited by Likely Guy
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