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spartan max2

FBI concludes Zimmermon not racist

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Posted (edited)

I might be behind the times with this thread cause someone could of posted it already. I point this out because people were talking about trying to charge him with civil rights violations.

But I felt like it would be good to point out that the FBI did a investigation on Zimmermon to see if he was racist motivated and they concluded that he is not.

http://www.guardian....-not-racist-fbi

George Zimmerman, the killer of black Florida teenager Trayvon Martin, was a neighbourhood busybody who once called police to complain about children playing in the street, but there was nothing to suggest that he was a racist, according to the FBI.

Federal agents interviewed many of the neighbourhood watch leader's friends, colleagues and family members as part of their civil rights investigation into the 26 February shooting but found nobody who believed Zimmerman, 28, was motivated by racial bias.

Instead, they found that most of the interviewees had a generally favourable opinion of him, with even the lead detective in the case convinced that he pursued Martin through a Sanford gated community because his suspicions were aroused by the teenager's clothes, not because he was black.

The new details come in a second wave of evidence in Zimmerman's second-degree murder case released publicly on Thursday by special prosecutor Angela Corey.

As well as the FBI records, the documents contain police reports that reveal detectives had differing opinions about the extent of the injuries Zimmerman claimed to have received in the altercation with Martin, 17.

And they show that Zimmerman, who denies murder on the grounds of self-defence, was keen to become a police officer himself and was a regular at local gun ranges and ammunition shops.

His former fiancée Veronica Zuazo, who in 2005 sought a restraining order against him citing domestic violence, told investigators: "He often talked about wanting to be a police officer."

In his role as neighbourhood watch captain for the Retreat at Twin Lakes community, Zimmerman, who was released on $1m bail last Friday to await his trial for second-degree murder, made several calls to police in the months leading up to the shooting.

In one, transcripts show, he reported that children were playing and running into the street. "It's habitual," he complained. "I'm just concerned for their safety and drivers in the neighbourhood."

Four other calls concerned black men he had spotted in the community that he considered "suspicious". He said the same thing to emergency dispatchers about Martin in a call immediately before he became engaged in the confrontation with the younger man who was walking to the house of his father's friend carrying sweets and a drink he had just bought.

Martin, who was visiting from Miami, was wearing a hooded top when he was shot. Detective Chris Serino of the Sanford police department told the FBI he believed Zimmerman followed him "based on attire" and not the colour of his skin.

Zimmerman, Serino said, possessed a "little hero complex" and was "overzealous" but he was not a racist.

Meanwhile, it appeared that Zimmerman's previously poor opinion of the Sanford PD was reversed when he spent an evening as a civilian observer on patrol with a female officer and liked what he saw.

"In the past, I have not had a positive perspective," he wrote in an email to Bill Lee, the chief of the police department who was sacked last month after a furore over the original decision not to charge Zimmerman. "Faith restored," he added.

All of those interviewed were asked if they thought the defendant displayed "any bias, prejudice or irrational attitude against any class of citizen, religious, racial, gender or ethnic groups".

In a unanimous response likely to please Zimmerman's lawyer Mark O'Mara, none did. O'Mara has insisted his client is no racist and that it was Martin who was the aggressor, punching and breaking Zimmerman's nose.

Detectives debated the severity of Zimmerman's injuries after the incident, the newly released records show, with some believing his nose to be broken and others disputing it. The extent of the injuries could be crucial to O'Mara's case as he tries to get charges dismissed under Florida's controversial stand-your-ground law, which allows for the use of deadly force if a person feels their life is in danger.

Also in Thursday's release were several photographs of evidence in the case, including one of Martin's hooded sweatshirt featuring a small bullet hole in the torso area surrounded by a bloodstain. He was killed by a single shot.

Zimmerman faces up to life in prison if he is convicted at a trial not expected to take place before next year. His wife, Shellie Zimmerman, 25, is charged with perjury for lying about the couple's finances at a bail hearing in April.

Edited by spartan max2
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While I like what the article says, I dislike that they call Zimmerman a "killer" in the very first sentence.

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Well he did willfully end another person's life, even if he's been found not legally capable for his murder.

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What is he then? He didn't murder him in the eyes of a jury of his peers. He did infact kill him. So h's not a murderer but he is a killer.

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I think the initial reporting of the case, particularly the edited 911 call, was disgusting. The media spun it into a racial incident without a drop of evidence. I strongly doubt Zimmerman set out to kill anyone, let alone a black kid.

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Posted (edited)

FBI concludes Zimmermon not racist

That they found no person last year (when the article in the OP was written) among those they interviewed who could testify to that he was racist does not mean "the FBI concluded Zimmerman was not a racist."


Federal investigation will now continue since the state trial is over

In fact the investigation is not complete but was only suspended due to the state trial. Now that the state trial is over the federal investigation will resume.

The department opened an investigation into Martin's death last year but stepped aside to allow the state prosecution to proceed.

In a statement, the Justice Department said the criminal section of its civil rights division, the FBI and the U.S. Attorney's office for the Middle District of Florida are continuing to evaluate the evidence generated during the federal probe, in addition to the evidence and testimony from the state trial.

"Experienced federal prosecutors will determine whether the evidence reveals a prosecutable violation of any of the limited federal criminal civil rights statutes within our jurisdiction," the statement said. Justice added that it will determine "whether federal prosecution is appropriate in accordance with the department's policy governing successive federal prosecution following a state trial."

Zimmerman case under review by Justice Department

Witness #9

Witness #9, reportedly his own cousin, made an anonymous call and later gave an interview to the state prosecutors. Unsure why the FBI did not interview her last year?

She clearly states in the anonymous call that the they (investigators) should, "just get character reports from other people and see if he's ever said anything about, you know, about black people or about being racist or anything like that cause I guarantee you there is somebody out there who will say it. Hopefully they'll admit it and not be afraid of him but I swear...please just look into that."

Transcripts of the anonymous call and interview can be found at Axiom Amnesia.

The following is also from the anonymous call.

What most folks don’t know is that Witness No. 9 made an explosive allegation against her cousin. “I know George. And I know that he does not like black people,” she told a Sanford police officer during a telephone call in which she pleaded for anonymity. “He would start something. He’s a very confrontational person. It’s in his blood. Let’s just say that. I don’t want this poor kid and his family to just be overlooked.” At the end of the call, Witness No. 9 urged the officer to “get character reports from other people and see if he’s ever said anything about black people, about being racist or anything like that because I guarantee you there’s somebody out there who will say it.”

George Zimmerman’s relevant past

In the first interview with state prosecutors she identifies herself as making the anonymous call. She stated, "him and his family have always made statements that don't like black people if they don't act like white people. They like black people if they act white. Other than that they talk a lot of bad things about black people."

Him, his brother, his sister, his mom, and dad are all implicated in that interview. Zimmerman's mother also said, "I don't like Obama." When asked why not she said, "Because he's black. I am a racist!"

Again, the audio can be found at Axiom Amnesia but won't be linked to because there is also a recording of the sexual abuse allegations she also makes against Zimmerman. Hope she is ready to speak up again but this time to federal investigators from the Department of Justice.


Eric Holder will speak at the ongoing 104th NAACP convention today, Tuesday 16 July

The NAACP, which is holding its convention about 30 minutes from the Florida town where Zimmerman and Martin had their fatal encounter, has asked the Justice Department to consider charging Zimmerman with a hate crime. Holder will speak at 4:30, according to the Justice Department.

Eric Holder to speak at NAACP convention

Detective believes Zimmerman followed Trayvon because of his attire

While there is no proof yet that Zimmerman harassed, obstructed him from traveling safely down a sidewalk, and murdered him over racism there was definitely cultural overtones according to the detective who believes, "Zimmerman followed Martin because of his attire."

Florida officials released documents last year based on interviews with Zimmerman’s ex-fiancee, neighbors, friends and co-workers, as well as with police investigator Christopher Serino in Sanford, Fla., the lead detective in the case. Serino said he thought Zimmerman followed Martin because of his attire, not his skin color. He told the FBI he thought Zimmerman had a “little hero complex” but did not believe he was a racist.

Civil rights charges against Zimmerman would be difficult, Justice officials say

Wrongful death civil suit still possible

In either case we can also still expect a wrongful death civil suit from the family.

However, a civil trial would offer the Martin family two big advantages: They might be able to force Zimmerman to testify, and the burden of proof is much lower.

George Zimmerman May Face Civil Suit

Edited by The world needs you

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Posted (edited)

I think the initial reporting of the case, particularly the edited 911 call, was disgusting. The media spun it into a racial incident without a drop of evidence. I strongly doubt Zimmerman set out to kill anyone, let alone a black kid.

The case can be made that Zimmerman who stated, "These people get away; they always get away," had the disposition of a person who, now armed, was not going to let them get away this time. He would stop them himself and was ready to kill. Read and decide, others already have formed opinions.

The 29-year-old Zimmerman, who claimed he shot Martin in "self-defense" during an altercation last year in a Sanford, Fla., gated community, "called 911 a lot about young black men that he thought were dangerous," Jealous said. "He said, 'these punks always get away.' Having had that track record, those words have powerful meaning - then you hear young men who say they felt targeted by him.

"And so, that's our hope," he continued. "It should not be the case that somebody should be able to track, to taunt, to kill a young man on the streets."

Appearing alongside Jealous, Georgetown University's Michael Eric Dyson said the attack was racially motivated "from the very beginning," adding "it appears of George Zimmerman, when he said, 'These people get away; they always get away' - we don't have to be Einstein to deduce... that he's got a fear of and suspicion of African-American youth."

http://www.cbsnews.c...l-rights-probe/

Edited by The world needs you

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Killing and Murder are two different things. You kill someone/something out of need, you murder someone for no practical reason.

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Eric Holder will speak at the ongoing 104th NAACP convention today, Tuesday 16 July

Eric Holder to speak at NAACP convention

Detective believes Zimmerman followed Trayvon because of his attire

While there is no proof yet that Zimmerman harassed, obstructed him from traveling safely down a sidewalk, and murdered him over racism there was definitely cultural overtones according to the detective who believes, "Zimmerman followed Martin because of his attire."

Civil rights charges against Zimmerman would be difficult, Justice officials say

Wrongful death civil suit still possible

In either case we can also still expect a wrongful death civil suit from the family.

George Zimmerman May Face Civil Suit

Both of these guys profiled each other. Zimmerman was suspicious because of burglaries in the area believed to be committed by young black men. Martin was profiling Zimmerman when he thought he was a white guy, calling him a Creepy Ass Cracker. Making an issue over profiling and using the government to do it is like getting the wolf to mind the hen house.

Double Jeopardy is against the law. See the Fifth Amendment of the Bill of Rights. Obama/Holder won't do anything because they can't do anything. They'll give a speech about peaceful behavior and the healing process, which other than spending other peoples' money, giving speeches is all they ever do.

I expect the Martin family will try to sue Zimmerman in civil court for wrongful death which is what I suggested the charges against Zimmerman be in the first place, but good luck squeezing blood from a turnip.

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Posted (edited)

Both of these guys profiled each other. Zimmerman was suspicious because of burglaries in the area believed to be committed by young black men. Martin was profiling Zimmerman when he thought he was a white guy, calling him a Creepy Ass Cracker. Making an issue over profiling and using the government to do it is like getting the wolf to mind the hen house.

Double Jeopardy is against the law. See the Fifth Amendment of the Bill of Rights. Obama/Holder won't do anything because they can't do anything. They'll give a speech about peaceful behavior and the healing process, which other than spending other peoples' money, giving speeches is all they ever do.

I expect the Martin family will try to sue Zimmerman in civil court for wrongful death which is what I suggested the charges against Zimmerman be in the first place, but good luck squeezing blood from a turnip.

Not so sure about nothing coming from federal prosecution. If nothing does and it is as you state then fair call as that would not be surprising either.

There are other witnesses out there who can still step forward both in attributing a racist character and history of Zimmerman as well as others who could have better seen the killing.

One of the 911 calls from a resident that is discussed here seems to point out that the person who was yelling for help was the one who died. She and others could have second thoughts and testify at a federal trial.

There is still his internet records which were probably not even looked into. Has he posted racist things online on any forums? Has he posted he was willing to shoot someone if he could get the chance while indicating they would likely be from another ethnic group? Where did he buy his gun? Unlikely that he brought it himself from out-of-state but if he did and crossed state lines with it then there is something else that would make it fall into the higher federal jurisdiction.

As stated, no surprises here if nothing comes out of it. If all that does is a positive message then maybe that is all that is needed in the grand scheme of things. This is certainly causing a national rift. Healing is wanted in some form and not necessarily a new trial on the federal level but perhaps simple reconciliation.

Edited by The world needs you

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Not so sure about nothing coming from federal prosecution. If nothing does and it is as you state then fair call as that would not be surprising either.

There are other witnesses out there who can still step forward both in attributing a racist character and history of Zimmerman as well as others who could have better seen the killing.

One of the 911 calls from a resident that is discussed here seems to point out that the person who was yelling for help was the one who died. She and others could have second thoughts and testify at a federal trial.

There is still his internet records which were probably not even looked into. Has he posted racist things online on any forums? Has he posted he was willing to shoot someone if he could get the chance while indicating they would likely be from another ethnic group? Where did he buy his gun? Unlikely that he brought it himself from out-of-state but if he did and crossed state lines with it then there is something else that would make it fall into the higher federal jurisdiction.

As stated, no surprises here if nothing comes out of it. If all that does is a positive message then maybe that is all that is needed in the grand scheme of things. This is certainly causing a national rift. Healing is wanted in some form and not necessarily a new trial on the federal level but perhaps simple reconciliation.

The DoJ will not go against it's own FBI in this. As to the daisy chain you seem to be creating, sure, he can be framed if enough people want to do it. Frankly I don't think enough people are interested at high enough levels to go to the trouble. What we may see is petty meanness in small ways - http://radio.foxnews.com/toddstarnes/top-stories/jogger-says-he-was-attacked-in-retaliation-for-zimmerman-verdict-2.html
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Not so sure about nothing coming from federal prosecution. If nothing does and it is as you state then fair call as that would not be surprising either.

There are other witnesses out there who can still step forward both in attributing a racist character and history of Zimmerman as well as others who could have better seen the killing.

One of the 911 calls from a resident that is discussed here seems to point out that the person who was yelling for help was the one who died. She and others could have second thoughts and testify at a federal trial.

There is still his internet records which were probably not even looked into. Has he posted racist things online on any forums? Has he posted he was willing to shoot someone if he could get the chance while indicating they would likely be from another ethnic group? Where did he buy his gun? Unlikely that he brought it himself from out-of-state but if he did and crossed state lines with it then there is something else that would make it fall into the higher federal jurisdiction.

As stated, no surprises here if nothing comes out of it. If all that does is a positive message then maybe that is all that is needed in the grand scheme of things. This is certainly causing a national rift. Healing is wanted in some form and not necessarily a new trial on the federal level but perhaps simple reconciliation.

An illegal federal trial isn't going to happen. You heard it from me first.

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Anything federal to a libertarian is illegal...

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While I like what the article says, I dislike that they call Zimmerman a "killer" in the very first sentence.

http://www.newsmax.com/Newswidget/Dershowitz-zimmerman-defamation/2013/07/15/id/515150?promo_code=F53D-1&utm_source=Israel_National_News&utm_medium=nmwidget&utm_campaign=widgetphase1

I posted this in another thread as well. Apparently even prosecutors can't continue to say a person is a "murderer" when a jury found otherwise.

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http://www.newsmax.c...gn=widgetphase1

I posted this in another thread as well. Apparently even prosecutors can't continue to say a person is a "murderer" when a jury found otherwise.

There is a difference between Killing and Murdering. He was found not guilty, which means by the law he did not murder him. He did however kill him.

~Thanato

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Posted (edited)

Anything federal to a libertarian is illegal...

This is out of place and somewhat off topic....feel free to reply to this in any of the threads where you feel the need to bash freedom....but seriously...why do you fear personal freedom and responsibility so much? You seem to hate the idea that a person is responsible for themselves....why is that? I just can't wrap my brain around your hate of an institution that stands for wide open freedom and making the person be responsible for their actions....I just don't get it....I would think the liberal left would love us Libertarians cause we want to let people be people....I do not have to agree with your lifestyle choices...they are yours....why is that bad? Why can't you be happy with a philosophy that says...."live and let live?"

Edited by Jeremiah65
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This is out of place and somewhat off topic....feel free to reply to this in any of the threads where you feel the need to bash freedom....but seriously...why do you fear personal freedom and responsibility so much? You seem to hate the idea that a person is responsible for themselves....why is that? I just can't wrap my brain around your hate of an institution that stands for wide open freedom and making the person be responsible for their actions....I just don't get it....I would think the liberal left would love us Libertarians cause we want to let people be people....I do not have to agree with your lifestyle choices...they are yours....why is that bad? Why can't you be happy with a philosophy that says...."live and let live?"

Because The World Need You, like Ninjadude, loves big government telling us how to live our lives. Don't you know that we are too stupid to make decisions about our own lives therefore the government should simply tell us how to live.

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Posted (edited)

With double jeopardy im pretty sure Zimmermons safe.

After all didn't OJ confess after he was found innocent? and no one could touch him cause the trail was already over.

At least I think, I never cared to pay much attention to him.

Edited by spartan max2
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Zimmerman won't be safe for a long time. There are those on the internet calling for his death. Then there are others trying hard to find a way to put him on trial again.

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There is a difference between Killing and Murdering. He was found not guilty, which means by the law he did not murder him. He did however kill him.

~Thanato

The posted link was self explanatory. Yes, I realize there is a great deal of difference between murder and ending another's life without intent to do so. I did not mean to confuse the two but I guess I did.

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Posted (edited)

Okay The World Needs You. So The FBI questioned 3 Dozen people and they all say it was not racist motivated. And you have One Anonymous phone call... That says he is racist.

The jury felt that he must be innocent.

So can you honestly tell me that you are not falling under the psychological trap of confirmation bias?

Edit: Plus CNN edited his 911 call. Like seriously does that not seem sketchy to you? If his phone call was clearly racist you would not need to edit it

Edited by spartan max2
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Because The World Need You, like Ninjadude, loves big government telling us how to live our lives. Don't you know that we are too stupid to make decisions about our own lives therefore the government should simply tell us how to live.

Cradle to grave, baby!! Big Brother will take care of you REAL good. All you have to do is have a pulse and bow down. We'll do all the rest. Trust us. WE know what's BEST for you. :devil:

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With double jeopardy im pretty sure Zimmermons safe.

After all didn't OJ confess after he was found innocent? and no one could touch him cause the trail was already over.

At least I think, I never cared to pay much attention to him.

I believe they can try you again if new evidence is uncovered, but again I am not a lawyer.

As for trying him in Federal Court the charge will not be murder but denying Travon his civil rights. Thus I do not think double jepody applies. Please note disclaimer above.

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I just do not get it.....they say they want this and that....and when we give it to them....it's not enough.....they want more.

I will forever be a fan of freedom.......i THINK that is what we have lost......the right to choose.

oh well....my position is not a secret.....it has never been....give me a free man on the side of road selling hot dogs....from that I can build an empire.....

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Just for arguments sake, let's say Zimmerman is racist.

Does that then also make him a murderer? Or any criminal of the sort?

We act like being a racist is illegal, or even damning evidence, when it is not necessarily so.

Being a racist, while dispicible, isn't criminal.

Now, if a crime was committed because of that racism, I can see where there would be a issue. That was never the case with Zimmerman. He followed Martin because he thought he was suspicious, not because he fell into a certain ethnic category.

If the FBI combed through anyones personal lifes, I think everyone would be guilty of some sort of racism/sexism/discrimination. Anyone who claims otherwise is either a saint or a liar.

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