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Saru

Are alien probes scouring the galaxy ?

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I don't think any of this is at all realistic. Just my opinion.

Speculation is a good thing sometimes, but I like it best when there is something concrete to start with; all this seems completely out of deep space.

I tend to agree

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Why be hard nosed and worry about having to stick to what we know all the time? When it comes to extraterrestrial life, we don't know anything. All we can do it throw around entirely hypothetical to the point of being frankly made up stuff like, what was his name, Drake's equation and Fermi's theorem and what have you. We'd never make any progress in discovering anything new at all if we stuck to what we know. The whole point of discovering new things is that they're things we didn't know.

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Why be hard nosed and worry about having to stick to what we know all the time? When it comes to extraterrestrial life, we don't know anything. All we can do it throw around entirely hypothetical to the point of being frankly made up stuff like, what was his name, Drake's equation and Fermi's theorem and what have you. We'd never make any progress in discovering anything new at all if we stuck to what we know. The whole point of discovering new things is that they're things we didn't know.

Ok you make a fair point Colonel, but, haven't we also been led to believe the law of physics was the same throughout the universe?

Of course we dont know that entirely for a fact. Buts its not a bad place to start is it?

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Ok you make a fair point Colonel, but, haven't we also been led to believe the law of physics was the same throughout the universe?

Of course we dont know that entirely for a fact. Buts its not a bad place to start is it?

Who was talking about changing the laws of Physics? The idea behind this proposal is that no laws of Physics have to be harmed, isn't it?

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Who was talking about changing the laws of Physics? The idea behind this proposal is that no laws of Physics have to be harmed, isn't it?

ETs don't break the laws of physics. They just find a way around them. :tu:

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ETs don't break the laws of physics. They just find a way around them. :tu:

How? Exactly?

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Who was talking about changing the laws of Physics? The idea behind this proposal is that no laws of Physics have to be harmed, isn't it?

OK. But however you look at it, how, as in the OP, can something replicate itself from...itself? With no nano factory in tow? Thats my head scratcher...

Or do we just assume that alien tech has solved that problem? Job done, so to speak?

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The real question is,"WHat If all matter I.E. atoms and sub-atomic particles are the nano-bots already?

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The real question is,"WHat If all matter I.E. atoms and sub-atomic particles are the nano-bots already?

And thats a damned good point to make.

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The real question is,"WHat If all matter I.E. atoms and sub-atomic particles are the nano-bots already?

mind=blown. This reminds me of the brain in a vat concept. Not necessarily similar, but equally thought provoking, regarding our perception of reality.

Edited by egesagin

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The real question is,"WHat If all matter I.E. atoms and sub-atomic particles are the nano-bots already?

Are you implying your BBQ is a hotbed of aliens ? Fire it up !

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Probes would make more sense to me instead of little green ETs.

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My guess would be that the probe would have a minature factory built into it. And that would allow it to build a larger facility to process materials and build parts, which would allow for the condtruction of another probe, which would aid in the construction of a larger facility.

This all requires a amazingly complex machine however which can find the raw materials, process them and fabricate them. And we're talking about dozens of different materials and thousands of parts. Can you imagine if such a probe has to re-produce a computer processor? Since I work at Intel, I understand the hundreds of processes and the machines and testing needed to produce a single chip. It is simply astounding. And something can go wrong at any step and ruin the chip.

A replicating probe could do that, but I think it would have to build a city sized facility to do so and have to build thousands of machines, and process all the testing itself, since it would have the only computer processor. To do all this by itself would be possible, but might take millions of hours of work.

Maybe the best idea would be for the probe to bring dozens of processors with it. Then it could build a copy, or build machines to build more copys much quicker. and then not send out any other probes till the factory they built was produciing processors. Maybe.... That would be a lot faster....

I think the term 'factory' is a bit misleading though since a 'nanofactory' is hypothesized to be of the size that it could sit atop a desk.

A typical nanofactory would fit in a desktop box, in the vision of K. Eric Drexler published in Nanosystems: Molecular Machinery, Manufacturing and Computation (1992), a notable work of "exploratory engineering". During the last decade, others have extended the nanofactory concept, including an analysis of nanofactory convergent assembly by Ralph Merkle, a systems design of a replicating nanofactory architecture by J. Storrs Hall, Forrest Bishop's "Universal Assembler", the patented exponential assembly process by Zyvex, and a top-level systems design for a 'primitive nanofactory' by Chris Phoenix (Director of Research at the Center for Responsible Nanotechnology). All of these nanofactory designs (and more) are summarized in Chapter 4 of Kinematic Self-Replicating Machines (2004) by Robert Freitas and Ralph Merkle. The Nanofactory Collaboration,[4] founded by Freitas and Merkle in 2000, is a focused ongoing effort involving 23 researchers from 10 organizations and 4 countries that is developing a practical research agenda[5] specifically aimed at positionally-controlled diamond mechanosynthesis and diamondoid nanofactory development.

http://en.wikipedia....cular_assembler

A probe could drop off it's nanofactory in a suitable location (with the proper materials in the vicinity) with the nanofactory programmed to replicate itself while the probe explores a solar system . After the new nanofactory is finished then the probe returns to pick the original up again at which time the new nanofactory is reprogrammed to replicate the probe. The initial probe leaves for it's next destination and 10, 100, 1000 years later (or whatever) the second probe is finished and goes along it's merry way with a nanofactory of it's own. To explore the entire universe one would have to think on a different timescale so 1000 years would seem like the blink of an eye.

Honestly I don't know if any of that is possible however research into nanomachines (even replicating ones) is currently ongoing.

Edited by Slave2Fate
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And if probes have seen Earth, so what? What proof is there that aliens had landed, settled, colonized, mined, explored Earth?

If an alien probe sends a signal into our TVs, emails, radios... or even lands in Times Square, fine, aliens exist, until that they do not.

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Gomar ,this is a true statement for all general rules of thumbs ! But IT really helps If we Keep the Belief that ITs Possible. Never Hurts to Believe.

That is until they toss us into the Hyper-Smoker they copied from my secret plans.

Gotta Love a Great B.B.Q ! :tu:

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I think that must be totally absurd, the Earth is more than four billion years old already. One tenth light-speed seems terribly impractical, not even to mention that even IF their robots are self-replicating where would they get the raw materials from considering that these robots would need something more than air to replicate themselves from, and how would they ever pay for those resources ? How could any space civilization, no matter how advanced, pay for the debts for such an extended exploration of this galaxy which has two hundred billion stars ? And even IF they could gather data and information on many different global cultures throughout this galaxy that data might just become obsolete within fifty years to say, a hundred and fifty years. And certainly long outmoded before they finish gathering their data and information from all over this galaxy.

With organic probes!

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And if probes have seen Earth, so what? What proof is there that aliens had landed, settled, colonized, mined, explored Earth?

If an alien probe sends a signal into our TVs, emails, radios... or even lands in Times Square, fine, aliens exist, until that they do not.

The whole point of this suggestion is that they're not interested in Making Contact, they'd just be studying from a scientific point of view.

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The whole point of this suggestion is that they're not interested in Making Contact™, they'd just be studying from a scientific point of view.

Probes are cheaper I suppose but less effective, since as you point out, they are of little use in any sort of contact, and I would think that is where the real learning comes.

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I was just thinking, now this topic's come up again, this theory actually rather ties in with the idea that was put forward by Seth Shostak off of SETI just recently, that any ET intelligence we might be likely to find would be in the form of hyper-intelligent Artificial Intelligences, doesn't it. Perhaps the probes mightn't just gather information, they might be intelligent in themselves and able to make contact if they decide that it's in their interest to do so. No, I agree, this theory of Seth's seems to be based on a very big assumption, since he seems to feel that the entire civilisation would entirely consist of AI machines, and that the life forms would somehow evolve into them, but it's an idea worth thinking about perhaps. It would eliminate the problems with sending information back from hundreds of light years away and receiving instructions back.

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I have doubts AI will ever duplicate sentience (the experience of sensation and emotion) seen in many animals, but I suppose they might be able to do language and symbols and logic well enough.

A more likely evolution, which we see happening already, is that we adapt our machines to be aids and supplements to what we do, even incorporating them into our bodies.

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Why be hard nosed and worry about having to stick to what we know all the time? When it comes to extraterrestrial life, we don't know anything. All we can do it throw around entirely hypothetical to the point of being frankly made up stuff like, what was his name, Drake's equation and Fermi's theorem and what have you. We'd never make any progress in discovering anything new at all if we stuck to what we know. The whole point of discovering new things is that they're things we didn't know.

Fermi and Drake did not just "make stuff up" they are carefully proposed thought experiments. Ufologists "make stuff up" and it does not help at all.

The Voyager Probes and SETI are the ones trying to make progress, and IMHO, are far more likely to actually find something. Actually looking into space has to be more accurate than sitting on the ground dreaming about it.

When the brains that seriously make these propositions go to work, they do not "make stuff up" they explore the parameters of known combinations of real possibilities. They may have holes yet to be filled, but that is not "making stuff up", it is anticipating a likely future forward move as present technologies tend to give us clues to likely future technologies. If just making crap up was the case, we might as well just hand NASA over to the local Kindergarten.

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I figure if aliens are visiting us, they will make their presence know when and only when they want to, and then there will be no argument. I see no sense in their hiding but if that is what they do, then they will do it and we will be none the wiser.

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Indeed, yet I see no reason why they would hide.

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Probes are cheaper I suppose but less effective, since as you point out, they are of little use in any sort of contact, and I would think that is where the real learning comes.

Communications seem far more likely to me.

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I figure if aliens are visiting us, they will make their presence know when and only when they want to, and then there will be no argument. I see no sense in their hiding but if that is what they do, then they will do it and we will be none the wiser.

indeed, but they might have no wish to "hide", they may just not see any point, or any scientific advantage, in making contact, so they may just be content to study discreetly without making too much of a fanfare about it. If they ever did decide it was in their interest to make it known that they were doing so, maybe they'd do so.

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