zimmerman's rights are our rights.

[Babe Ruth]

Thanks Yamato, you made my point.

[Yamato]

Thanks Yamato, you made my point.

What point? The transcript shows he followed instructions from first to last. How can you interpret it any other way?

[+joc]

of course he did. He had a gun!

With that line of reasoning: when a police officer follows someone he suspects is drinking and driving...it is the Police Officer who poses the threat...because he has a gun!

What a ridiculous thought process. How do you even get there? It isn't even thought process...it's just 'guns are bad' drivel.

[Babe Ruth]

What point? The transcript shows he followed instructions from first to last. How can you interpret it any other way?

The point is that folks happy with the verdict are rationalizing, en masse.

Are you denying that the dispatcher told him not to follow, to stay in his car?

[Yamato]

The point is that folks happy with the verdict are rationalizing, en masse.

Are you denying that the dispatcher told him not to follow, to stay in his car?

Rationalizing? What?

I provided the transcript dude. What are you asking me for if I'm denying it?

[+joc]

The point is that folks happy with the verdict are rationalizing, en masse.

Are you denying that the dispatcher told him not to follow, to stay in his car?

The point is: a jury of his peers found him not guilty. That is the point. You don't like it..fine. You like it...fine. You don't give a rats behind either way...fine. That is the law. That is the justice system. That is reality. Deal with it. You want to change the outcome? You can't. If you can, then you will eventually end up with Sharia Law. Is THAT what you want? Put Zimmerman's shoes on for a minute...walk around his neighborhood...put Trayvons shoes on too...he was walking in the rain at night...that is suspicious enough...why? Why walk in the rain? To get skittles?? Please...he didn't have a car and he wanted to go get high...we've all done that right? We've all walked through neighborhoods in the pouring rain to get skittles right?

[Babe Ruth]

Yamato

Straight and simple question: did the dispatcher tell Z to follow M, or to not follow M?

Joc

While I fully support the jury system, juries do make mistakes. While it is the final word, and that's fine by me, don't pretend the jury is speaking for God (if you're into deities) or that they make no mistakes.

Those 6 women delivered gross injustice, and my bet is that in their souls they know that too well. They utterly failed to hold a man responsible (that big conservative notion of personal responsibility, ya know?) for his actions in the death of another man.

As demonstrated by many many government actions to numerous to list here, the rule of law in this country is dead. Please spare me all the platitudes about the dignity or honesty of how the law was applied here. It was a travesty of justice.

If either man had killed the other by vehicular manslaughter they would have been found guilty. You may rationalize the failure of the jury in your own mind, but I'll pass, thanks just the same.

[Yamato]

Yamato

Straight and simple question: did the dispatcher tell Z to follow M, or to not follow M?

The word Watch is in the Neighborhood Watch for a reason. Does following mean not keeping someone in your sight? Not to me it doesn't. The transcript evidence, when you take it in its entirety doesn't confer with what you're saying. It reveals that Martin ran. If you're implying that Zimmerman was huffing and puffing after him while continuing that conversation with the dispatch and ran Martin down, I'd like to smoke a bowl of what you're smoking.

Are you aware that all of these circumstances that you're calling back into question were covered in the court case? You're manufacturing a scenario that didn't happen. This is starting to smack of conspiracy theory again I'm sorry to see.

[ninjadude]

..it is the Police Officer who poses the threat...because he has a gun!

yes Police are threatening. It's kind of their modus operandi. Many, if not most people feel somewhat intimidated and threatened by them. But that's really not relevant to your argument.

[danielost]

Babe ruth your not talking justice. Your talking revenge. I would class revenge in the area of murder.

[danielost]

yes Police are threatening. It's kind of their modus operandi. Many, if not most people feel somewhat intimidated and threatened by them. But that's really not relevant to your argument.

More people are happy to see them since those people are unarmed. It takes up to two hours for the police to respond to a call.

[+DieChecker]

The point is that folks happy with the verdict are rationalizing, en masse.

Rationalizing that GZ was found innocent due to lack of evidence, or rationalizing because TM had a part in his own death? Both of which are true.

Are you denying that the dispatcher told him not to follow, to stay in his car?

Don't you believe that if any action GZ did... following, fighting, shooting... was illegal he'd have been brought up on charges? The fact there is no "Disregading a police officer", "Interfering in an investigation", or "Wrongfully calling 911", or "Misdemenor Stalking", charges says none of those things happened, to the police, the Defense or the DAs office. No one but those completely ignorant of the situation and a few die hards are still saying GZ illegally followed and disregarded the police. Because those have both been proven to be untrue. There is nothing to prevent a NW person from following someone, as long as they do not confront those they suspect. There is also no legal obligation to obey a civilian 911 operator.

The dispatcher did not say, "Do not follow", she said, "We don't need you to do that". The difference is subtle, but means a lot.

Edited July 24, 2013 by DieChecker

[Babe Ruth]

The word Watch is in the Neighborhood Watch for a reason. Does following mean not keeping someone in your sight? Not to me it doesn't. The transcript evidence, when you take it in its entirety doesn't confer with what you're saying. It reveals that Martin ran. If you're implying that Zimmerman was huffing and puffing after him while continuing that conversation with the dispatch and ran Martin down, I'd like to smoke a bowl of what you're smoking.

Are you aware that all of these circumstances that you're calling back into question were covered in the court case? You're manufacturing a scenario that didn't happen. This is starting to smack of conspiracy theory again I'm sorry to see.

Thanks again.

The transcript evidence? What about all the other evidence? What about judging the big picture? Is that allowed?

Just as many juries have done in the past, and many more will do in the future, the verdict in this case was a gross miscarriage of justice. An innocent man walking home was killed by a racist vigilante. Life goes on, and I still strongly support the jury system even though it is not perfect.

[danielost]

What about the other evidence, links please. The bigger picture, you mean where george zimmerman was found innocent of all chargesbut he should be put in the chair, because that is what the protesters(mob) wants.

[danielost]

The justice system is not there to carry out your need for revenge. It is there to in sure that the laws are obeyed and that the truth comes out. Which it fails to do to often.c

[+joc]

yes Police are threatening. It's kind of their modus operandi. Many, if not most people feel somewhat intimidated and threatened by them. But that's really not relevant to your argument.

Many people do fear the police...and for good reason...because they are involved in criminal activity. Many people don't. I don't fear the police...I have great respect and admiration for them. I am a huge fan of law enforcement. Their 'modus operandi' is To Protect and To Serve. You all seem to have a view of the police that borders on seeing them as Fascists or Nazis or Gestapo. They don't make the law...change the law on a dime....they are here to protect us from the bad guys and to serve in whatever helpful way they can. The Police are our friends...and if they become a part of the largest Police State in the history of the world...blame Obama and Holder...and all the goons ya'll voted into office for that...not the police.

[Yamato]

Thanks again.

The transcript evidence? What about all the other evidence? What about judging the big picture? Is that allowed?

Just as many juries have done in the past, and many more will do in the future, the verdict in this case was a gross miscarriage of justice. An innocent man walking home was killed by a racist vigilante. Life goes on, and I still strongly support the jury system even though it is not perfect.

All the other evidence and the big picture was decided upon in court. You're calling all the other evidence the gross miscarriage of justice. What do you think all the other evidence is? It's not summed up by one sentence. Martin wasn't an innocent man the moment he criminally violently assaulted another person. I see no evidence whatsoever that Zimmerman is racist. I don't know what you're basing these statements on.

I acknowledge the connection you made that led to the chain of events. There could be a wrongful death suit here and maybe there even should be. But Zimmerman committed no criminal act by defending his own life. Trayvon did by attacking him.

[+joc]

Yamato

Straight and simple question: did the dispatcher tell Z to follow M, or to not follow M?

Joc

While I fully support the jury system, juries do make mistakes. While it is the final word, and that's fine by me, don't pretend the jury is speaking for God (if you're into deities) or that they make no mistakes.

Those 6 women delivered gross injustice, and my bet is that in their souls they know that too well. They utterly failed to hold a man responsible (that big conservative notion of personal responsibility, ya know?) for his actions in the death of another man.

As demonstrated by many many government actions to numerous to list here, the rule of law in this country is dead. Please spare me all the platitudes about the dignity or honesty of how the law was applied here. It was a travesty of justice.

If either man had killed the other by vehicular manslaughter they would have been found guilty. You may rationalize the failure of the jury in your own mind, but I'll pass, thanks just the same.

Please spare me the silly notion that this trial was anything close to vehicular manslaughter.

[Babe Ruth]

Too nuanced for you Joc. Not too worry.

Did you see the comments of the juror aired on ABC? Weak sister, she was, and felt he should have been convicted of 2nd degree. Other jurors persuaded her to acquit.

Edited July 26, 2013 by Babe Ruth

[Bama13]

Thanks again.

An innocent man walking home was killed by a racist vigilante.

You can tell that lie over and over again and guess what, it is still a lie.

I am done arguing with you over this. Please feel free to continue lying if that is what it takes for you to sleep at night. As for me, I prefer the truth, but that is just me.

[Babe Ruth]

You can tell that lie over and over again and guess what, it is still a lie.

I am done arguing with you over this. Please feel free to continue lying if that is what it takes for you to sleep at night. As for me, I prefer the truth, but that is just me.

Actually, we both prefer the truth, as long as it's comfortable. That's related to the cognitive dissonance thing.

If the truth is UNcomfortable, many reject it by kidding themselves.

Further, neither of us is lying. I am not lying, but I am typing words that make others uncomfortable.

Don't worry about it Bama--I greatly respect your courage in standing up to the authorities and the state, as you have described here.

Many of my good friends, heck probably most of them, agree very much with you and the verdict. But recall when everybody agreed that the earth was the center of the universe and slavery was cool.

The irony is that those who have in the past so passionately argued in favor of individual responsibility, self described Conservatives, are now arguing that Zimmerman need not be held individually responsible for his decision to disregard the advice of supervisors and follow Martin. He is certainly not the first man to get away with murder at the hands of a jury, and probably not the last.

Peace, dude.

[Yamato]

I'm no "conservative" the way it's defined these days, but I can see that he was held responsible through a criminal court trial for 2nd degree murder. After a juror review of his peers he was found not guilty. Sometimes jurors and trials get it wrong. I can't see how that's the case here however. I see a lot of unsubstantiated statements but no explanations backing them up. We can believe whatever we want if we just write off the trial and ignore it I suppose.

[danielost]

One of the jurers sayed zimmerman got away with murder. But, there was no evidence to support that claim. I think she is just trying to become a lesser target.

[danielost]

Babe ruth no on is saying zimmerman shouldn't pay for that night. That is except six women who found him innocent if the charges.

[Gummug]

Since interest in this event seems unable to die, I thought I'd post this. (I didn't read all the posts here so I apologize if it has already been posted, but it is so good...)