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Mikko-kun

What makes you religious or 'with belief'?

37 posts in this topic

What do you especially consider to be something that constitutes for this kind of thing? What's your view?

Me, I think everyone has their definitions and I dont want to claim I or something I've read somewhere is the right, whether it's an Oxford dictionary or a loony blog. That said, I dont genuinely honestly know whether to consider myself with belief or something not yet quite there. Animalism is a part of how I take the world, believing that animals have just as much or little soul and spirit as us. Also, astrology, it's just basically sensing what you're like, are you a sensual spirit or brimming with unreleased vitality and strive for more, what's the flavor of you as a being. For me, those are things I've observed, not something I'd have to have a blind faith to take in as a part of my reality, unlike bible and Jesus for example. It ain't black and white for me, but religious figures and gods are more on the pure faith -end of that line for me. I know people can tag astrology and animalism as faiths, but for me they're realities.

So I wanna ask one thing, Can faith and reality be parallel? Can you forge a belief out of reality? Can you tell me how I can do it, what could be my faith? I've looked at all mainstream religions, and the idea of god or any higher entity, any entity many of us dont sense... I've not had any contact with them, not even ghosts, except maybe one time in my dream at young age, but I dont know if the entity's there. Can you have faith without believing in a higher power or a higher entity that's not us? They say Scorpios (the astrology sign) keep forging their way to faith, stuck in that process, while the next sign Sagittarius reaches faith. It's not just sun sign astrology but I've felt like that long before I knew anything more than the name of my sun sign, always being uncomfortable with the thought of taking up a faith, but more comfortable with finding out how you arrive to a faith, finding out more about that process.

How have you dealt with your faith? Did you just accept something or did you find it as hard as I did? How did you deal with the thing of placing yourself somewhere in the concept-boxes of "I'm an atheist" or "I'm a religious person" or "I'm just me"? I know that in my youth it gave me pressure, anxiety a bit, but now I've learned to deal with it easily. It's a thing in which the first and foremost priority is your faith, not supporting a religion or a view by standing in their ranks. Of course you can stand in their ranks, but that should not be your first priority unless it's natural to you like questioning things and being stuck in the finding-out process is natural to me. The first priority is to be true to yourself. If you dont know, then be true about you being in the dark about things.

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Definition of 'Faith' from the On-Line Merriam-Webster dictionary.

1

a : allegiance to duty or a person : loyalty

b (1) : fidelity to one's promises (2) : sincerity of intentions

2

a (1) : belief and trust in and loyalty to God (2) : belief in the traditional doctrines of a religion

b (1) : firm belief in something for which there is no proof (2) : complete trust

3

: something that is believed especially with strong conviction; especially : a system of religious beliefs <the Protestant faith>

Can one have 'faith' without religion? Yes, one can if you mean definitions 1 a & b, 2-b-(2), or 3.

I rather think that the application of definition 2-a-1, -2 requires a religion of some sort.

And all of our forum members who devoutly believe in a vast number of improbable ideas require definition 2-b-1.

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He wants your personal view and insight, not Merriam and Websters'.

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Posted (edited)

My personal faith, has nothing to do with religion. My faith is placed on my own personal ability, determination, and will. In other words, I have faith in myself. I have faith in my spouse, my daughter, and my closest friends.

In a larger sense, I have faith that humanity will grow wiser, stronger, and more tolerant of each other. I also have faith that some of us will always sink to their base needs and activities.

And perhaps young Mr _only will share his infinite wisdom as well, instead of attempting to chastise others....?

Edited by JMPD1

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Interesting point. I think that every person has their own individual belief, even if they claim to be a "Christian", "Jew", "Taoist", et cetera. Every person can interpret their own bible or torah differently. I ended up having to create my own religion because of my own experiences and views on life. I basically believe in the power of another. I think that reality and the dead souls (plus the :alien: ) exist on different planes of this universe and that those planes can clash at times and we can receive contact in one way or whatnot. It's basically cause and effect, but with spirits influencing your everyday life on a higher level.

My mother is an atheist and my father is dedicated to the Jewish religion. Any fights they had were mostly about religious views. Sooo, basically I grew up having mixed views, but in the end I created my own.

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Posted (edited)

I had what I believe to be a personal experience of the "divine" for want of a better word, for an extended period of time. The kind of experience I had is usually described using religious terms, so until I can find a better one, I'm using that. Prior to that, I had no religious or spiritual faith or beliefs. I concluded from my experience that there is something hugely bigger than us, intelligent, communicative, and really really smart. I don't call it God because it doesn't fit the typical description of God, so I use the words "divine" and "spirit", though those are inadequate to the task. Universal consciousness may be closer to the mark, or universal informed energy. Help!

Edited by Beany
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Posted (edited)

I had what I believe to be a personal experience of the "divine" for want of a better word, for an extended period of time. The kind of experience I had is usually described using religious terms, so until I can find a better one, I'm using that. Prior to that, I had no religious or spiritual faith or beliefs. I concluded from my experience that there is something hugely bigger than us, intelligent, communicative, and really really smart. I don't call it God because it doesn't fit the typical description of God, so I use the words "divine" and "spirit", though those are inadequate to the task. Universal consciousness may be closer to the mark, or universal informed energy. Help!

I had the same type of life changing and viewing experience. But while you use divine for lack of a better term, I am more scared to use any term, for fear of ridicule, so I just labeled it something more than what I knew. It changed my life. Sometimes I ask in my mind what it is. The answer that invariably comes back immediately is always "I am you". This always leaves me with more questions, but I feel at some deep level that this is all the answer I need, and one day I will understand it.

I still have no religious beliefs, other than thinking they were all somehow part of the same source (whatever abstract source that could possibly be), molded and fit to whatever target audience was receiving the messages as well as what messages they needed to hear. But that's more of just a loose idea, as opposed to a belief. Growing up in an overly strict Christian household turned me well off of following religion, and I never went back. But these days, I sometimes think it would be a good idea to read religious texts and see what I personally could find of meaning in them. Study the texts, not to have passages interpreted to me by anyone else, but to figure them out myself. Someday I really should do this.

But I can say that I gained an unbelievably immense feeling and belief of a spiritual nature to myself and all around me from this life changing experience that happened less than a few years ago. I can't explain how or why, no matter how many times I wonder about it in my head, but it happened. Just the day before this shift, I could very well have been found actively mocking and ridiculing others for their beliefs dealing with spiritual nature (which is a massive reason why I feel such an urge to defend others who are mocked and ridiculed for their personal beliefs here now). Then the next day, I found myself the very type I would have mocked the day before. But long story short, I gained an immense belief for 'something more', that I did some vigorous scattered research on the days after my change. It led me in so many different directions that I didn't know which to pursue, but after the intense hunger for explanation faded, I just accepted that I don't know what happened, but it was an utterly personal spiritual experience, and so that is what I label it. That's all I know.

And to think, it all started from just one dream that I only now remember one snapshot image from. Me looking through the eyes of something in space, staring at the Earth. I remember that, and waking up bawling like a child, in happiness. More followed after that, but I feel this was the biggest defining moment of the experience. It's such a mysterious feeling to know that this very dream was what completely changed me as a person, without knowing how, why, or what it was even about. Who was I staring through the eyes of?

But all that aside, my experience was lacking of any religious affiliation or context, because I had rejected religion as something in my life. So I had no beliefs tied to me. So where others with religious affiliation might have found eureka moments, mine was one of wonder.

But if you skip all of that personal stuff I'm sure is far more compelling to me than anyone else reading, what makes me with belief? I don't know what to call it, so I call it 'something more'. I honestly had nothing to do with it, which is the amazing thing. I just instantly believed in things I hadn't before, as if seeing a side to things I had previously not been able to see. But while I wonder about what that 'something more' actually is every day, "I am you" continues to be the only answer ringing in my mind's ear. However intriguing that answer is, I can only reply to it "what does that mean".

I think that "I am you" is in everyone, and is the same source. I think that it is love, and is somehow tied to the Sun (which I gained a sudden unexplainable adoration of after my experience). The fact that we are physically made of star 'stuff', revolve around a star, sustain life from this star, makes me think that this could be the closest thing that haters of religion and spirituality (lovers of physical explanation to everything) could themselves call a creator if pinned into a corner. And these thoughts give my life changing dream resulting in unbelievable immense feelings of love, peace, and joy, where I was staring through the sight of something in space, looking at the Earth that much more of an intriguing twinkle in my mind's eye of possible explanation. I came to this potential connection far later, after experiencing all of the above, though. But this is the extent of what I bare myself to express as potential beliefs, and all after ends at loose ideas, or 'what if's'. I have the idea it is learning, in a world it created, one of endless worlds it created, through sending out portions of itself to experience these self created dream worlds. These portions are given a will of their own to deal with life's experiences as they choose, and this is simultaneously where the learning happens for the source. When does the learning stop? When do the created worlds and portions of self stop being thrown out in every direction? I don't think it would ever stop. A source called love infinitely learning itself in every imaginable (and unimaginable) way.

But all those ideas aside, all I know is that something inside made me believe. But I had no conscious choice. And am still not consciously certain what it is that I believe in, yet there it is.

edit: Wow, sorry. I didn't realize I had written such a Bible of an explanation. This is a thing I would like to write pages and pages about, but can never seem to really find the right words. Oh, well.

Edited by _Only
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Posted (edited)

Faith and Reality are intermingled. Reality is what people think they know, but what happens when something startling that happens which cannot possibly be explained by practical and logical measures.

Faith(belief) is apart of us for a reason, and that reason is for us to keep searching and to continue on with what each of us is out-lined to do.

There is no religion in this faith I speak of. This faith is the underlying admittance that there are those among the stars that wish to help us and those that still wish to do us wrong and manipulate us. Over that fact, there are those that wish to aid us and have done so without worldwide knowledge. There are those that have saved us over and over, but we still suffer in blind ignorance, wanting everything lined out in truth, though we know it in heart and mind.

I really don't know what makes people religious. Fear, justification, and guidelines are the only reasons a sensible mind can come up with. I won't be harsh, but it seems to me it is mostly blind insanity.

What is insanity is the belief that we are all roving around and hoping for proof when it's been shoved in our faces countlessly.

Edited by AliveInDeath7
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My spirituality revolves around my experiences. They happen to fit more closely to a shamanic mysticism outlook but that is just a label. My spirituality also is subject to deduction and observations.

Example. The mere fact that we exist tells me that that some sort of eternity exists. In all of eternity consciousness is bound to evolve. Quite obviously it has. There is no reason not to suspect that at some point consciousness continued to evolve which probably happened an eternity ago. That's the thing with forever. There has been plenty of time for a the great spirit to evolve and be born in fact it probably has many times and is most likely a fundamental property of reality. This would make all of us both the beginning and end of the eternal process. A tangled hierarchy of sorts.

Anyway. I don't need faith, in my view something profoundly spiritual must exist, and I have the benefit of experiences that tell me this is indeed the case.

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I'm an atheist, I think rational thought and observation must always prevail over faith, I have no credence in others' testimonials, and I am highly suspect of belief and think we should stick with opinion.

Still, on a spirituality scale of one to ten, I would say I'm a ten, because of the paragraph above. I don't believe anything for its own sake but only because it is asymptotically close to truth -- that rational thought leads me there.

For starters, there is mind and consciousness. There is also sentience, compassion, will, art, humor, and the weird fact that even though I can think through well enough the illusory nature of the outside world, I still can also think think through the reality of its existence and the layers upon layers of illusion the lie under it.

The word "spirituality" is unfortunate in that it leads to spirits and ghosts and so on. What is really meant is mental existence in a physical universe it has no business being in, but there it is, in lifetime after lifetime after lifetime.

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The word "spirituality" is unfortunate in that it leads to spirits and ghosts and so on.

Not always.. There are in fact Atheists who do consider themselves as spiritual... I never would have believed it myself, until an atheist came on and spoke about it..He explained that the term spirituality doesn't have to be linked to the religious supernatural or even the paranormal, it can be something from within yourself, like seeking the meaning of life.. This can be done easy without ever having to reach to religion or the paranormal..

Some atheists have written books about this, that go into more detail. I personally, would never call atheism a religion, but from paying attention to other atheists about spirituality, they taught me that the word itself has a much broader meaning...

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I had the same type of life changing and viewing experience. But while you use divine for lack of a better term, I am more scared to use any term, for fear of ridicule, so I just labeled it something more than what I knew. It changed my life. Sometimes I ask in my mind what it is. The answer that invariably comes back immediately is always "I am you". This always leaves me with more questions, but I feel at some deep level that this is all the answer I need, and one day I will understand it.

I still have no religious beliefs, other than thinking they were all somehow part of the same source (whatever abstract source that could possibly be), molded and fit to whatever target audience was receiving the messages as well as what messages they needed to hear. But that's more of just a loose idea, as opposed to a belief. Growing up in an overly strict Christian household turned me well off of following religion, and I never went back. But these days, I sometimes think it would be a good idea to read religious texts and see what I personally could find of meaning in them. Study the texts, not to have passages interpreted to me by anyone else, but to figure them out myself. Someday I really should do this.

But I can say that I gained an unbelievably immense feeling and belief of a spiritual nature to myself and all around me from this life changing experience that happened less than a few years ago. I can't explain how or why, no matter how many times I wonder about it in my head, but it happened. Just the day before this shift, I could very well have been found actively mocking and ridiculing others for their beliefs dealing with spiritual nature (which is a massive reason why I feel such an urge to defend others who are mocked and ridiculed for their personal beliefs here now). Then the next day, I found myself the very type I would have mocked the day before. But long story short, I gained an immense belief for 'something more', that I did some vigorous scattered research on the days after my change. It led me in so many different directions that I didn't know which to pursue, but after the intense hunger for explanation faded, I just accepted that I don't know what happened, but it was an utterly personal spiritual experience, and so that is what I label it. That's all I know.

And to think, it all started from just one dream that I only now remember one snapshot image from. Me looking through the eyes of something in space, staring at the Earth. I remember that, and waking up bawling like a child, in happiness. More followed after that, but I feel this was the biggest defining moment of the experience. It's such a mysterious feeling to know that this very dream was what completely changed me as a person, without knowing how, why, or what it was even about. Who was I staring through the eyes of?

But all that aside, my experience was lacking of any religious affiliation or context, because I had rejected religion as something in my life. So I had no beliefs tied to me. So where others with religious affiliation might have found eureka moments, mine was one of wonder.

But if you skip all of that personal stuff I'm sure is far more compelling to me than anyone else reading, what makes me with belief? I don't know what to call it, so I call it 'something more'. I honestly had nothing to do with it, which is the amazing thing. I just instantly believed in things I hadn't before, as if seeing a side to things I had previously not been able to see. But while I wonder about what that 'something more' actually is every day, "I am you" continues to be the only answer ringing in my mind's ear. However intriguing that answer is, I can only reply to it "what does that mean".

I think that "I am you" is in everyone, and is the same source. I think that it is love, and is somehow tied to the Sun (which I gained a sudden unexplainable adoration of after my experience). The fact that we are physically made of star 'stuff', revolve around a star, sustain life from this star, makes me think that this could be the closest thing that haters of religion and spirituality (lovers of physical explanation to everything) could themselves call a creator if pinned into a corner. And these thoughts give my life changing dream resulting in unbelievable immense feelings of love, peace, and joy, where I was staring through the sight of something in space, looking at the Earth that much more of an intriguing twinkle in my mind's eye of possible explanation. I came to this potential connection far later, after experiencing all of the above, though. But this is the extent of what I bare myself to express as potential beliefs, and all after ends at loose ideas, or 'what if's'. I have the idea it is learning, in a world it created, one of endless worlds it created, through sending out portions of itself to experience these self created dream worlds. These portions are given a will of their own to deal with life's experiences as they choose, and this is simultaneously where the learning happens for the source. When does the learning stop? When do the created worlds and portions of self stop being thrown out in every direction? I don't think it would ever stop. A source called love infinitely learning itself in every imaginable (and unimaginable) way.

But all those ideas aside, all I know is that something inside made me believe. But I had no conscious choice. And am still not consciously certain what it is that I believe in, yet there it is.

edit: Wow, sorry. I didn't realize I had written such a Bible of an explanation. This is a thing I would like to write pages and pages about, but can never seem to really find the right words. Oh, well.

Wow, you verbalized that really well. Like you, I didn't have a choice. From one second to the next everything opened up to me, and how I saw the world, how I was in the world changed. I didn't ask for it, seek it out, but there it was, like I was a whack-a-mole or something, which kinda proved to me that whatever it is has a sense of humor.

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I have faith in the occult and the power of magick.

I have faith in the earth plants and herbs to heal me and keep my healthy.

As well as positive thinking and meditation.

Lately I have been reading a lot about the occult and trying stuff out.

It's been working so far.. So I have a lot of faith in that.

In the end I want to gain much wisdom and then apply it to better my life..

and those around me.

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The word "spirituality" is unfortunate in that it leads to spirits and ghosts and so on. What is really meant is mental existence in a physical universe it has no business being in, but there it is, in lifetime after lifetime after lifetime.

Spirituality can also be "incorporating a philosophy in many levels vividly". The word is often used with ghosts, spirits and entities of spiritual, mysterious or just other-dimensional quality, but I would call some people spiritual too like Becky's Mom said. Buddhist monks come to mind, and I'm a fan of martial arts so shaolin too. Having philosophies which you incorporate to your life so... profoundedly, I guess merging would be the closest word. Mercury is retrogade now so it's no wonder we stumble with words here. I think that some of the western world's religions have overlooked the importance of evolving your physical body as a way to evolve your spirituality. Spirituality in people could be to take life more... unstrugglingly, connect and interactively live with the forces of life. To catch the vibes, if you like.

How you use the words religion and belief, depends on how you associate them, though they have clear things. I just wonder, when does a belief evolve to a religion, what's their difference really. Religion is more convictional, based on holding up a belief, but is it just that? Can religion have a self-destruct button so to say? Like the religion admitting it might not be perfect and in that case it would prefer it's followers to rethink everything from scrap. Religion, belief system, might be just word-mincing, but while I might have what you call beliefs, I feel I never had a religion, even though I do view atheism too as one, because there you hold up an idea. I know it's not a popular way and I know a lot of people and dictionaries disagree but that's just me. And I've been non-christian in a christian country all my life, save for baptism. I'm wondering what makes religion a religion in a spiritual sense, when you scrap all the earthly this-and-that, book-church-ritual-hierarchy things and focus on the belief itself in there, and how the belief there is handled.

When I look at religion in this sense, and people who talk about how they use their religion or how they deal with not having a religion, or faith or belief even, it seems religion is used to find faith and even grounds to have faith. While those who dont have faith or religion, are either atheists of different decrees or more connected to some form of spirituality than what most would call an atheist. I can say from experience that it can feel very heavy to try find something you can believe in in this world, whether it's that something is or isn't there. People like to use labels, they ain't all-bad by far, but it's a healthy thing to have an eye that sees past them. Labels would be 'red', 'blue' and so on, while the reality itself has many shades and mixtures of all colors. In the physical world very evidently but so also in spiritual.

I also asked in the beginning about believing in the power of another, and many seem to have that belief which is no surprise, but I didn't know people arrived there from experiencing something like that, apart from Seeker. Only's post opened a new way on this for me.

AliveinDeath, you remind me why I like to have no faith actually. Or moreso, to have room for more beliefs. The little explorer inside: you need to have more room on that cup to be able to pour more to it, and the process of finding the water to that cup can be a sweet thing. That brings me to another point, religions or faiths dont have to have an explanation for everything, do they? It's good to appreciate the world unknown, rather than... not appreciate it?

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Oh, and Only, you mentioned Sun having to do with love and this universal power or entity. It's a sort of love in astrology, will-power they say. I've found it to be a force of life when you connect to it and take it in. I've been dead though I've been physically and thought-processfully and even emotionally alive, and connecting to Sun gave much energy. Force of life. It was so blatantly evident in my chart, yet it took me a year to realise such a simple thing even though I studied. But life is a study which you learn more by living, by putting yourself out there in every sense of the word. Physically too since our physical self, body, is connected to our mind very profoundly. We can manage, manipulate and develop ways to deal with that connection, that's not a belief but a reality. Also our spirituality can be connected to that, I believe it is. And positive thinking, they call it placebo, we share that too LostSouls. I believe that placebo is very much related to how well you're connected to your very self that's shown in a chart, been checking on that.

Meaning of life, Becky's Mom, that I believe you find when you get to known with yourself and your innate ways to deal with different areas in life. I've found meaning of life through finding out about my tendencies, but that's just one step. Next is to be alive and do things you feel good about. Astrology was a path for me to accept myself despite of whatever the reality may be and whatever dogmas there may be about how people should act and so on. And the little reading I've done on the bible and some texts often considered spiritual, I think those too can help you regain faith in yourself in a way, they too can help you accept yourself, though they can also be harmful. Connecting to how whatever you follow goes in life, learning the things behind it that make it tick, like I learn basic rules between planets in astrology, I think that's the valuable thing. To utilize it in life positively. It's more than placebo, if it touches your very being.

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I've had luck with becoming somewhat familiar with some aspects of the meaning of life by observing and and letting it reveal itself. I've given up intellectualizing or philosophizing, because at some point I realized all that I learned or thought I knew was most likely came between me & the "truth of it" because I filled my head with pre-conceptions that obscured rather than reveal. Maybe there's something to revelation, if one keeps an open mind, recognizes the flaws in one's thinking, and creates a space that the knowing can step into, whether it's internal knowledge or intuition or some sort of informed intelligence outside of one's self.

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Beany, these days I've noticed the same thing. I came there through Pantodragon's blog/post though, partly. Big shifts of focus like that tend to be revealing, enlightening. It's the genius in us that's more quiet but yet powerful, and you can't hear quiet things if your mind is always too loud. Shifting your angle at times can be a great asset to your thinking, to I feel it's not too comfortable every time. Those things come naturally, I try to look through them through astrology-science, but lately shifting focus from scientifical to more "just take it as it is, as it comes, just let it be", like that, feels better. Subjective is just a word they use for a concept. It's not the words that matter but how you feel about things, though words are good for conveying.

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Posted (edited)

I had what I believe to be a personal experience of the "divine" for want of a better word, for an extended period of time. The kind of experience I had is usually described using religious terms, so until I can find a better one, I'm using that. Prior to that, I had no religious or spiritual faith or beliefs. I concluded from my experience that there is something hugely bigger than us, intelligent, communicative, and really really smart. I don't call it God because it doesn't fit the typical description of God, so I use the words "divine" and "spirit", though those are inadequate to the task. Universal consciousness may be closer to the mark, or universal informed energy. Help!

I go with universal (or cosmic) consciousness as a name for this entity, and ones connection to/with it. I do call it god when speaking to others because otherwise other people dont really understand what i am talking about, and because its long term (40 year) relationship with me fits many of the parameters other humans arttribute to various god forms) But personally it is the cosmic consciousness and I dont address it as god It is a father, brother, mentor, friend, protector, teacher, guide, etc.

It is I and i am it. There is no separation between either my mind and its mind, nor between my being and its being. Its thoughts and energy permeate mine, giving me strength and wisdom, and I in turn contribute to its experience and knowledge, as it lives through my heart, mind and body.

Ps this is a very accurate and clear description of this entity

something hugely bigger than us, intelligent, communicative, and really really smart.

In my case, I would add; very caring/protective and interactive.

Edited by Mr Walker

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I had the same type of life changing and viewing experience. But while you use divine for lack of a better term, I am more scared to use any term, for fear of ridicule, so I just labeled it something more than what I knew. It changed my life. Sometimes I ask in my mind what it is. The answer that invariably comes back immediately is always "I am you". This always leaves me with more questions, but I feel at some deep level that this is all the answer I need, and one day I will understand it.

I still have no religious beliefs, other than thinking they were all somehow part of the same source (whatever abstract source that could possibly be), molded and fit to whatever target audience was receiving the messages as well as what messages they needed to hear. But that's more of just a loose idea, as opposed to a belief. Growing up in an overly strict Christian household turned me well off of following religion, and I never went back. But these days, I sometimes think it would be a good idea to read religious texts and see what I personally could find of meaning in them. Study the texts, not to have passages interpreted to me by anyone else, but to figure them out myself. Someday I really should do this.

But I can say that I gained an unbelievably immense feeling and belief of a spiritual nature to myself and all around me from this life changing experience that happened less than a few years ago. I can't explain how or why, no matter how many times I wonder about it in my head, but it happened. Just the day before this shift, I could very well have been found actively mocking and ridiculing others for their beliefs dealing with spiritual nature (which is a massive reason why I feel such an urge to defend others who are mocked and ridiculed for their personal beliefs here now). Then the next day, I found myself the very type I would have mocked the day before. But long story short, I gained an immense belief for 'something more', that I did some vigorous scattered research on the days after my change. It led me in so many different directions that I didn't know which to pursue, but after the intense hunger for explanation faded, I just accepted that I don't know what happened, but it was an utterly personal spiritual experience, and so that is what I label it. That's all I know.

And to think, it all started from just one dream that I only now remember one snapshot image from. Me looking through the eyes of something in space, staring at the Earth. I remember that, and waking up bawling like a child, in happiness. More followed after that, but I feel this was the biggest defining moment of the experience. It's such a mysterious feeling to know that this very dream was what completely changed me as a person, without knowing how, why, or what it was even about. Who was I staring through the eyes of?

But all that aside, my experience was lacking of any religious affiliation or context, because I had rejected religion as something in my life. So I had no beliefs tied to me. So where others with religious affiliation might have found eureka moments, mine was one of wonder.

But if you skip all of that personal stuff I'm sure is far more compelling to me than anyone else reading, what makes me with belief? I don't know what to call it, so I call it 'something more'. I honestly had nothing to do with it, which is the amazing thing. I just instantly believed in things I hadn't before, as if seeing a side to things I had previously not been able to see. But while I wonder about what that 'something more' actually is every day, "I am you" continues to be the only answer ringing in my mind's ear. However intriguing that answer is, I can only reply to it "what does that mean".

I think that "I am you" is in everyone, and is the same source. I think that it is love, and is somehow tied to the Sun (which I gained a sudden unexplainable adoration of after my experience). The fact that we are physically made of star 'stuff', revolve around a star, sustain life from this star, makes me think that this could be the closest thing that haters of religion and spirituality (lovers of physical explanation to everything) could themselves call a creator if pinned into a corner. And these thoughts give my life changing dream resulting in unbelievable immense feelings of love, peace, and joy, where I was staring through the sight of something in space, looking at the Earth that much more of an intriguing twinkle in my mind's eye of possible explanation. I came to this potential connection far later, after experiencing all of the above, though. But this is the extent of what I bare myself to express as potential beliefs, and all after ends at loose ideas, or 'what if's'. I have the idea it is learning, in a world it created, one of endless worlds it created, through sending out portions of itself to experience these self created dream worlds. These portions are given a will of their own to deal with life's experiences as they choose, and this is simultaneously where the learning happens for the source. When does the learning stop? When do the created worlds and portions of self stop being thrown out in every direction? I don't think it would ever stop. A source called love infinitely learning itself in every imaginable (and unimaginable) way.

But all those ideas aside, all I know is that something inside made me believe. But I had no conscious choice. And am still not consciously certain what it is that I believe in, yet there it is.

edit: Wow, sorry. I didn't realize I had written such a Bible of an explanation. This is a thing I would like to write pages and pages about, but can never seem to really find the right words. Oh, well.

This is very true Especially the "I am you" part.

What is more, as you become more able to consciously connect to this "entity" you can not just see through its eyes but travel with it /through it, all over the universe and visit sapient beings on all sorts of worlds; because not only is it you and me, it is all those consciousnesses as well.

For me it is not just star stuff but the energy and the matter of the universe itself which it seems to maipulate at will.

As well as its consciousness it has a network of physical "gates and portals" to help consciouensss travel instantly around the universe. I dont kow if these are organic or technological in nature, but they are made up of the very matter and energy of the universe itself. Your mind/consciousness can enter one in this solar system (out past the big planets) and come out in the centre of the galaxy, or anywhere else another "gate" exists.

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Wow, you verbalized that really well. Like you, I didn't have a choice. From one second to the next everything opened up to me, and how I saw the world, how I was in the world changed. I didn't ask for it, seek it out, but there it was, like I was a whack-a-mole or something, which kinda proved to me that whatever it is has a sense of humor.

Oh I love that explanation; and then as the poor mole you have to use your knowledge and mind to work out what just happened to you as best you can. The whack takes seconds; understanding it and dealing with the consequences takes one lifetime at least. And yes it has a cosmic sense of humour which can be hard to relate to at first, like a young boy trying to comprehend the humour and practical jokes of his adolescent brother, without a similar frame of reference.

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I know people spend thousands of dollars and travel all over the world, attending workshops, conferences, meditations, to have the experiences I had. And I didn't even know those experiences existed, let alone seek them out. I call that a "cosmic joke." And it's kind of like knowing nothing and knowing everything simultaneously, another cosmic absurdity. The knowing nothing part comes from my mind, which at some point slowly ground to a halt and yielded to the idea that there is no possible way that it could explain or organize those events in a cohesive manner. The knowing part comes from body wisdom, I think, some of it from DNA, that is a strange mix of cellular memory, nerve endings stretching out and sort of tasting the air and organizing sensations, and a deep connection with that universal consciousness that has always abided and always informs. As I like to say, it's the soup we swim in and the soup that swims in us.

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Posted (edited)

What do you especially consider to be something that constitutes for this kind of thing? What's your view?

Indoctrination. The vast majority of people simply stick to the religion (aka superstition) that they were indoctrinated in by their parents. And in theocracies, they actually don´t have the choice to leave the cult, even if they wanted it.

To wit, I kept my children free of religion. I did speak with them about the topic, though. They are now adult, and free from this irrational ballast.

So, while I guess you could say they continue my (and my wife`s) belief, they do so with reason. No invisible big man in the sky to scare them with hell to have "faith" in BS.

Edited by Zaphod222

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Ps this is a very accurate and clear description of this entity

something hugely bigger than us, intelligent, communicative, and really really smart.

In my case, I would add; very caring/protective and interactive.

So why does it only communicate with you and not with us infidels?

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As a youg child i knew everything, but as I grew more questions than answers. I became a Philosophy major in college. Now at 50 years I consider myself a "student of life". Always seeking a better way, deeper understanding and perhaps ..................?

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In my case, I would add; very caring/protective and interactive.

Of his sources of narcissistic supply.

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