Gibraltar: a 300-year-old debate...

[Mr.United_Nations]

Seems Spain and Argentina have joined forces though I think the UN will throw out their cases

[Space Commander Travis]

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/08/11/gibraltar-dispute-un-spain-argentina_n_3739658.html?icid=maing-grid7%7Cukt2%7Cdl5%7Csec1_lnk2%26pLid%3D200894

Gibraltar Row To Be Taken To UN By Spain With Argentina's Support

Spain will seek to take its dispute with the UK over Gibraltar to the UN - with the support of Argentina.

Spanish foreign minister Jose Garcia-Margallo is expected to propose that both countries present a "united front" over Gibraltar and the Falkland Islands, El Pais reported.

Spain is also considering the possibility of raising the matter of Gibraltar at the UN's General Assembly or the International Court of Justice at The Hague, diplomatic sources reportedly told El Pais.

Clearly the Spaniards aren't bothered about wasting the UN's valuable time with their silliness. But it won't harm them of course; Brits will still flock to the Costas, however silly the Spaniards get.

[stevewinn]

we need do nothing (Yet) let the pair of them go moan to the UN. nothing will come of it. all this nicely diverts their peoples attention away from the realities of their economies. both Argentina and Spain have economic woes beyond belief, spain - near 30% of her youth are unemployed.

If events call us to action. - the use of soft power should be our plan of action. we should do everything we possibly can to support Catalonia in their bid for independence, this would cause a major headache for spain. a large amount of income comes from the region a breakaway would cause real money troubles. so much so they'd need a bailout by the EU. at this stage all bets are off - irony would be the house of cards would come falling down. fancy that, Spain blaming all their current troubles on 30,000 British Citizens on a small piece of rock and yet this small rock might just be the beginning of the end.

[Subsonicjourno]

It's instances like this that make me so angry that previous governments have slashed our military. How short-sighted can they can get? There are always enemies to fight no matter what. The main issue this whole thing raises however is what would happen regarding the EU if it ever did escalate into a war between Britain and Spain? Does anyone know if the EU actually even has a contingency plan for such an event?

[stevewinn]

It's instances like this that make me so angry that previous governments have slashed our military. How short-sighted can they can get? There are always enemies to fight no matter what. The main issue this whole thing raises however is what would happen regarding the EU if it ever did escalate into a war between Britain and Spain? Does anyone know if the EU actually even has a contingency plan for such an event?

no war would breakout, both the UK and Spain are NATO members. never mind EU members, but sanctions by the EU would be imposed on the aggressor. just who would they side with is another matter.

you make a good point, our military can be bigger, especially the Navy. - but that said military wise we are doing quite good when compared - everyone is slashing their budgets and armed forces. yet the UK remains the 4th Largest spender on military in the world - first -1st in Europe, We have the second biggest navy in the world, biggest in europe - of combatants the UK out performs the Spanish. in short they'd last 10 minutes against the UK. but it'll never come to this. we should just report Spain to the EU for breaking EU rules. Spain continue to disrupt movement at the border.

[Subsonicjourno]

I know its highly unlikely but I still would be keen to know just how the EU would react. In the unlikely scenario how would it respond? My bets on it being another toothless talking shop like the UN when it really comes down to it and very likely an anti-Uk one at that .

[stevewinn]

I know its highly unlikely but I still would be keen to know just how the EU would react. In the unlikely scenario how would it respond? My bets on it being another toothless talking shop like the UN when it really comes down to it and very likely an anti-Uk one at that .

yes it would be good to know exactly how the EU would react. But i fear your assumption is most probably right - toothless talking shop and anti UK. just as interesting is NATO response.

related: Ten Royal Navy and RFA ships left Portsmouth and Devonport today heading towards the Med. were some will call at Gibraltar and the Spanish port Cadiz.

picture of HMS Illustrious leaving today.

Gibraltar row: UK considering 'unprecedented' legal action

Motorists trying to cross from Gibraltar into Spain have experienced long delays

The UK government is considering legal action against Spain over the imposition of additional border checks in Gibraltar, Downing Street has said.

A spokesman said the prime minister was "very disappointed" by Spain's failure to remove the checks over the weekend.

Legal action through the EU would be "unprecedented", the spokesman added.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23668589

[Space Commander Travis]

So the EU takes no notice at all of the Spaniards imposing a completely illegal extortion- er, "special fee" on those wishing to cross an internal EU border then? Not at all vindictive, are they.

[Mr.United_Nations]

So the EU takes no notice at all of the Spaniards imposing a completely illegal extortion- er, "special fee" on those wishing to cross an internal EU border then? Not at all vindictive, are they.

Actually the EU has rejected Spain's case

[Space Commander Travis]

Actually the EU has rejected Spain's case

they're not exactly rushing to slap them on the wrist though, are they? they might send Observers down if they get the chance, but probably not until October, maybe.

[Mr.United_Nations]

they're not exactly rushing to slap them on the wrist though, are they? they might send Observers down if they get the chance, but probably not until October, maybe.

I think they will, thats why Spain are going to the UN, though they will get the same response.

Also I think 99% of Spaniards want thier government out than something about Gibraltar

[stevewinn]

wheres Keith when you need him. it'll be interesting to get the News from the "front" so to speak.

[Render]

HIlarious how Britain wants nothing to do with the EU and makes thread after threat to leave it...and now suddenly goes crying back to it.

What's the matter Britain? Can't do anything by yourselves?

In essence, border checks are permitted, because neither Britain nor Gibraltar are part of the Schengen group of countries which have ended border checks

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23668589

Just another example that Britain is always ready to use and abuse the EU, but never wants to put in the full effort to belong.

And after this they'll go right back to nagging about everything that the EU does and is. And they can't wait to leave, just after they can suck everything out of it that they can and then some more.

A true parasite...needing everything from its host and trying to destroy everything along the way.

Last week the European Commission said it would send a team of monitors to the border to examine the situation, but they are not expected to arrive until next month or October.

Oh no, October...and by the time they actually conclude anything it'll probably be 2014 ... Cameron is gonna have to put a spin on that referendum again.

[Space Commander Travis]

HIlarious how Britain wants nothing to do with the EU and makes thread after threat to leave it...and now suddenly goes crying back to it.

What's the matter Britain? Can't do anything by yourselves?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23668589

Just another example that Britain is always ready to use and abuse the EU, but never wants to put in the full effort to belong.

And after this they'll go right back to nagging about everything that the EU does and is. And they can't wait to leave, just after they can suck everything out of it that they can and then some more.

A true parasite...needing everything from its host and trying to destroy everything along the way.

Oh no, October...and by the time they actually conclude anything it'll probably be 2014 ... Cameron is gonna have to put a spin on that referendum again.

I'm sorry? a true parasite? Goes crying to the EU? Did you actually read what the story is about? it's nothing to do with whining to the EU, everyone agrees that it demonstrates how useless the EU is. Do you support the Spanish, then? you haven't said much about them, all you've said is how childish and petty the UK is.

[Render]

I'm sorry? a true parasite? Goes crying to the EU? Did you actually read what the story is about? it's nothing to do with whining to the EU, everyone agrees that it demonstrates how useless the EU is. Do you support the Spanish, then? you haven't said much about them, all you've said is how childish and petty the UK is.

Useless? Yet they wanna go nag the EU to practice their open border rules. Even though that's part the Schengen contract, which they are not a part of.

Whenever there is something important to discuss and do, the UK wants no part of it and says it wants to do things differently. And now when they can't get their lollipop they wanna practice the rules of the EU, SUDDENLY.

Whatever, bunch of babies.

[Space Commander Travis]

Useless? Yet they wanna go nag the EU to practice their open border rules. Even though that's part the Schengen contract, which they are not a part of.

Whenever there is something important to discuss and do, the UK wants no part of it and says it wants to do things differently. And now when they can't get their lollipop they wanna practice the rules of the EU, SUDDENLY.

Whatever, bunch of babies.

So you do not think at all that the Spanish are being a childish bunch of babies? They are being completely reasonable and beyond criticism in any way? Why is the Uk being a childish bunch of babies but the Spanish are not? I was going to ask do you not think that this demonstrates very clearly petty vindictiveness on the part of the EU because the UK is unwilling to go along with their Common Currency project, but it would appear that you think that is perfectly reasonable. So the Eu is not being childish and petty, then, or if they are that's perfectly all right because the Uk deserves it for being a bunch of babies?

[Render]

So you do not think at all that the Spanish are being a childish bunch of babies? They are being completely reasonable and beyond criticism in any way? Why is the Uk being a childish bunch of babies but the Spanish are not? I was going to ask do you not think that this demonstrates very clearly petty vindictiveness on the part of the EU because the UK is unwilling to go along with their Common Currency project, but it would appear that you think that is perfectly reasonable. So the Eu is not being childish and petty, then, or if they are that's perfectly all right because the Uk deserves it for being a bunch of babies?

Im not highlighting Spain because Spain doesn't have a track record of being a whiney twit.

It does not demonstrate vindictiveness of the EU at all. It's because the UK is again being full of itself and is threatening Spain's fishing base.

The row was sparked after Gibraltar created an artificial reef which, the Spanish say, will destroy fishing in the area.

And maybe that gave Spain a petty idea to "punish" them in a way that would be of an financial/economic benefit to Spain.

The EU is even willing to indulge the UK by coming over and checking out the borders to see if these measures are excessive. Even though the UK has said numerous times it's practically already one foot out of the EU door and just biding it's time until a referendum takes place to leave it all together.

Edited August 13, 2013 by Render

[Space Commander Travis]

Im not highlighting Spain because Spain doesn't have a track record of being a whiney twit.

It does not demonstrate vindictiveness of the EU at all. It's because the UK is again being full of itself and is threatening Spain's fishing base.

And maybe that gave Spain a petty idea to "punish" them in a way that would be of an financial/economic benefit to Spain.

The EU is even willing to indulge the UK by coming over and checking out the borders to see if these measures are excessive. Even though the UK has said numerous times it's practically already one foot out of the EU door and just biding it's time until a referendum takes place to leave it all together.

"threatening Spain's fishing base"? So it's going to destroy the entire Spanish fishing industry? heavens.

where's the rolleye smilies.

Ah, here it is.

Edited August 13, 2013 by Colonel Rhuairidh

[Space Commander Travis]

So basically you're arguing that Spain is perfectly entitled to do this, and is not being childish at all, since it's perfectly reasonable punishment for the UK refusing to go along with the European Superstate project? And that's not vindictive in any way, and the only one being a childish bunch of babies is the UK. Right then.

[Render]

"threatening Spain's fishing base"? So it's going to destroy the entire Spanish fishing industry? heavens.

where's the rolleye smilies.

Ah, here it is.

You apparantly didn't notice the quote of the article i posted which clearly states:

will destroy fishing in the area.

So that's obviously what i meant with fishing base.

So basically you're arguing that Spain is perfectly entitled to do this, and is not being childish at all, since it's perfectly reasonable punishment for the UK refusing to go along with the European Superstate project? And that's not vindictive in any way, and the only one being a childish bunch of babies is the UK. Right then.

You apparantly didn't notice me using the word "petty"

And maybe that gave Spain a petty idea to "punish" them

There you go.

European Superstate project?

You apparantly didn't notice the repetitive quotes of the article that state its between Spain and the UK, you know .. the fishing thingy.

The UK made it a EU thing when they started nagging the EU to enforce its policies. Which are, i believe im repeating myself but it's apparantly needed with you, actually Schengen rules which the UK is not a part of.

[stevewinn]

Im not highlighting Spain because Spain doesn't have a track record of being a whiney twit.

It does not demonstrate vindictiveness of the EU at all. It's because the UK is again being full of itself and is threatening Spain's fishing base.

And maybe that gave Spain a petty idea to "punish" them in a way that would be of an financial/economic benefit to Spain.

The EU is even willing to indulge the UK by coming over and checking out the borders to see if these measures are excessive. Even though the UK has said numerous times it's practically already one foot out of the EU door and just biding it's time until a referendum takes place to leave it all together.

)

you clearly dont know what your talking about, the UK signed the open borders policy.(treaty of Rome) This dispute with Spain is not about being non signatories of the schengen agreement. it makes no difference if you followed the events instead of just trying to run down the UK. ( why do you still live here anyway) you'd realise Spain is doing what the dagoes do best when domestic affairs are crippling their country. petty tactics to divert their peoples attention from their elected leaders incompetencies. Spain says its carrying out these border checks to stop smuggling - but the reality is they are playing silly games, nothing more nothing less. blaming it on the artificial reef which is being installed in British Gibraltarian waters. this reef as been in the process of being built since the 1970's the Spanish have always moaned about it, first to the UN, and the EU so much for your Spain never moans theory. but in the last three weeks they've kicked up a fuss again. saying the reef damages their fishermans nets and this is what its all over. so as the preplanned installation of the reef continues they Spain decide to start cross border checks. so the short of the matter is, we are installing a reef in British waters, and Spain dont like it. most probably because as their economy goes down the tubes. their politicians are being investigated for corruption and meanwhile here is Gibraltar economy in growth. paying higher than the minimum wage, in short a success story.

But as peas from the same pod. Spain now seeks a ally in Argentina another basket case, and all of a sudden the pair of them want to build a case at the UN. i mean how low does Spain have to stoop. the case at the UN will be diplomatically laughed out. Spain dont forget signed only 12 months ago along with other EU members that they recognise the Falklands Is. as a British overseas territory. but now all of a sudden that has changed how are they going to explain that to the Argies.

The UK's action should use its influence of soft power. we should support Catalonia in their bid for independence. then we should seek at the UN to support Morocco in their bid to have two areas of their land returned to Morocco from Spanish control. Spain has two areas the equivalent of Gibraltar on the Moroccan coast. Ceuta, and Melilla. then when the above as been achieved Spain will be in even worse economic woe. when finally Catalonia gain independence, and spain loses all that income, then our next plan of action should be to stop Spanish fisherman in British waters. which will hit them hard when you consider 80% of the Spanish fishing fleet earn a living in British waters. but we'll do it in such a fashion it'll be the equivalent of the border checks the Spanish are carrying out at the border. that way we'll prevent their fisherman catching their quota. and in doing so destroy their fishing economy. so if the UK wanted to play hard ball we could and we'd do far more damage than a delay at the border.

Edited August 13, 2013 by stevewinn

[Mr.United_Nations]

Sigh...It was SPAIN WHO WENT TO THE EU!! moaning all the time!!

[Render]

then are next plan of action should be to stop Spanish fisherman in British waters. which will hit them hard when you consider 80% of the Spanish fishing fleet earn a living in British waters. but we'll do it in such a fashion it'll be the equivalent of the border checks the Spanish they are carrying out at the border. that way we'll prevent their fisherman catching their quota. and in doing so destroy their fishing economy. so if the UK wanted to play hard ball we could and we'd do far more damage than a delay at the border.

So you're admitting Spain has something to be worried about and is actually acting out for a good reason. Maybe not in the best way, but the best way they can think of for the time being.

Gibraltar has always been a sore point, everybody knows that.

Sigh...It was SPAIN WHO WENT TO THE EU!! moaning all the time!!

And Spain isn't nagging to leave the EU.

The UK is. So the UK shouldn't moan to the EU all the time because they can't handle their own business.

[stevewinn]

So you're admitting Spain has something to be worried about and is actually acting out for a good reason. Maybe not in the best way, but the best way they can think of for the time being.

Gibraltar has always been a sore point, everybody knows that.

no Spain do not have a case let me be more clear. the 80% of the Spanish fishing fleet earn a living in British waters. (Atlantic, Irish sea, North sea) NOT in British Gibraltarian waters. the Spanish fisherman fishing in Gibraltar are small in number and only fish for scallops. and supports a small village -

its good to see that the fishermen and workers groups have issued a statement: "We reject all measures of pressure from the Spanish government towards Gibraltar and vice versa that rebound on our citizens. The queues of vehicles at the border are inhumane with so many children, old people and the infirm," the confederation of fishermen said in a joint statement with the PSOE, the Spanish leftwing opposition, and a La Línea business association. The Ascteg, an organisation that represents about 10,000 Spanish nationals who work in Gibraltar, also joined in the condemnation.

[Mr.United_Nations]

So you're admitting Spain has something to be worried about and is actually acting out for a good reason. Maybe not in the best way, but the best way they can think of for the time being.

Gibraltar has always been a sore point, everybody knows that.

And Spain isn't nagging to leave the EU.

The UK is. So the UK shouldn't moan to the EU all the time because they can't handle their own business.

You realize Spain is more trouble employment wise? thn the UK? I have said before Gibraltar won't save Spain