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Japan warns UK not to leave Europe

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THE Japanese government has waded into the debate over Britain’s relationship with Europe, issuing an extraordinary warning against leaving the EU.

The Tokyo government has hinted that 130,000 British jobs could be at stake if the UK pulls out of the union.

A memo submitted to the Foreign and Commonwealth Office warns that Japanese companies invest in the UK because they see it as a gateway to European markets.

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OMG, this is Abe again, sticking the other foot in his mouth. Even among the merry-go-round of clueless Japanese PMs, this guy is an embarrassment.

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Sound like blackmail to me.

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If there is one thing that will backfire on foreign governments warning the UK population not to leave the EU, is that very fact of being told so by foreign governments. I am afraid, right or wrong, that "Johnny Foreigner" is still eyed with suspicion when they try to tell the Brits to do something....

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And how great is the Japanese economy at the moment? Not very..... they are in a worse situation than several European countries and are not a great trade partner for exporting to. If anything they NEED the UK to export to and as such it is THEM that are worried and thinking it is a bad idea we pull out of the EU!

The fact of the matter is that if we do pull out of the EU we can trade under our own terms, and undercut most of Europe, offering much better deals for the likes of many countries such as China and the Far East and the rising S.American economies that are looking to the UK for import/export but are tied to selling and importing with the EU too, than we can under this "Fair Trade" rubbish that only benefits the countries that man-handle Brussels so they get the best deals.

As a certain UKIP leader said many times and was laughed at...... "Mercedes, Porsche and BMW are not going to suddenly stop selling cars to the UK just because we are no longer within the EU!". Funny that the Con/Lab/Libs all laughed at the quote and told him he talked rubbish, and then when UKIP wiped the floor with them at local elections, several Conservative MP's were in the press the week after making the exact same quote about car manufacturers will still continue to trade with us if we left the EU.

At the end of the day, this rubbish talk about the EU being an important trade partner is just that, rubbish. Ask any bank whether they would do business with someone heavily in debt and they will laugh you out the bank. Ask any retailer if he will be willing to let someone take out credit with a black-listed credit report and no money in their wallet and he will laugh you out the store.... and yet we are to believe the UK somehow thinks the EU (who is made up of many bankrupt, poor credit countries who cannot even pay their own bills without bailouts, using a currency always on the brink of collapse) is a really good partner to be trading with and we should ignore the money rich Middle East, China and rising S America to stick to selling to countries who can't pay us for the goods! The truth is that if we leave, we can still buy goods from the EU but we can ignore EU fair trade laws and pay much cheaper for goods, while at the same time we can sell our goods for cheaper and more mass volume to the EU and many, many other better off economies! But the EU knows we are in a strong position if we pull out and will do ANYTHING to keep us in, because without us, there is nobody to keep bailing out the little poor countries, propping up their dying currency and doing all the hard work of bringing in import/export/financial business into the EU through our doors! If we leave and close the doors..... who will take up the strain and be willing to do so much for so many for so little thanks? Nobody...... and then the EU will collapse!

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The EU was a sensible project as long as they had the limited goal of promoting free trade and cooperation among nation states (like they did when they still called it the EEC). But since then, the megalomaniacs have taken over in Brussels, and the recent push to create an undemocratic, oversized, overregulated monstrous super-state, with a common currency that does not work (Maastricht), a constitution than nobody voted for (Barcelona), open borders (Scheveningen) and uncontrolled and omnipotent agency that can reach into national budgets (the EMS), they simply have overshot the goal.

It is like the overpaid and uncontrolled parasites in Brussels want to re-create the Sovjet Union!

It is total insanity. Nigel Farange pretty much nails it in his comments about it.

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And how great is the Japanese economy at the moment? Not very..... they are in a worse situation than several European countries and are not a great trade partner for exporting to. If anything they NEED the UK to export to and as such it is THEM that are worried and thinking it is a bad idea we pull out of the EU!

The fact of the matter is that if we do pull out of the EU we can trade under our own terms, and undercut most of Europe, offering much better deals for the likes of many countries such as China and the Far East and the rising S.American economies that are looking to the UK for import/export but are tied to selling and importing with the EU too, than we can under this "Fair Trade" rubbish that only benefits the countries that man-handle Brussels so they get the best deals.

As a certain UKIP leader said many times and was laughed at...... "Mercedes, Porsche and BMW are not going to suddenly stop selling cars to the UK just because we are no longer within the EU!". Funny that the Con/Lab/Libs all laughed at the quote and told him he talked rubbish, and then when UKIP wiped the floor with them at local elections, several Conservative MP's were in the press the week after making the exact same quote about car manufacturers will still continue to trade with us if we left the EU.

At the end of the day, this rubbish talk about the EU being an important trade partner is just that, rubbish. Ask any bank whether they would do business with someone heavily in debt and they will laugh you out the bank. Ask any retailer if he will be willing to let someone take out credit with a black-listed credit report and no money in their wallet and he will laugh you out the store.... and yet we are to believe the UK somehow thinks the EU (who is made up of many bankrupt, poor credit countries who cannot even pay their own bills without bailouts, using a currency always on the brink of collapse) is a really good partner to be trading with and we should ignore the money rich Middle East, China and rising S America to stick to selling to countries who can't pay us for the goods! The truth is that if we leave, we can still buy goods from the EU but we can ignore EU fair trade laws and pay much cheaper for goods, while at the same time we can sell our goods for cheaper and more mass volume to the EU and many, many other better off economies! But the EU knows we are in a strong position if we pull out and will do ANYTHING to keep us in, because without us, there is nobody to keep bailing out the little poor countries, propping up their dying currency and doing all the hard work of bringing in import/export/financial business into the EU through our doors! If we leave and close the doors..... who will take up the strain and be willing to do so much for so many for so little thanks? Nobody...... and then the EU will collapse!

A few basic mis-conceptions in your post.

The UK will not be able to sell anything to the EU if it is produced within the EU at a higher cost because they (the EU) will simply increase the Tarrifs on such goods to ensure that trading is maintained on a level playing field, and to protect EU production.

The UK has NOT propped up the Euro, essentially it has been Germany, and the Euro has remained remarkably resilient against Sterling and the Dollar. The Euro crisis is well and truly over because it is also supported by the Fed and China, and will not be disappearing anytime soon. Structural problems remain of course because there is not a Common Fiscal Policy amongst Euro nations.

I actually totally support UK withdrawal from the EU because it does not suit the Industrial, Economic, and Financial mindset of the UK.

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90% of the British economy does not trade with the EU. and as for losing jobs, we had no problem losing 150,000 British jobs and ruining our fishing towns/communities and fishing fleets thanks to being EU members. and in doing so affectively handed over our fishing grounds of which 80% of the fish in europe is caught in UK waters.

so i say to Japan, if you want to leave, go, we have far more to lose if we remain EU members. lets not kid ourselves these global businesses are built on shifting sands. no loyalty,

the British government should start helping the true economy of the UK, the small to medium companies who employ the majority of the work force and contribute more to their local economies than these big multinationals who seek tax loopholes and have tax havens. and here im not talking about some tax haven in the Caribbean. no, - look no further than Luxembourg in the EU. one example: Amazon.co.uk. £10Billion pound profit. in the UK and over 9 years they have paid just £3 million in tax in the UK.

because the UK Amazon operation avoids tax as the ownership of the main Amazon.co.uk business was transferred to a Luxembourg company in 2006. The UK business is now owned by Amazon EU Sarl and the UK operation is classed only as an "order fulfilment" business. All payments for books, DVDs and other goods go directly to Luxembourg. The UK business is simply a delivery organisation.

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Another fallacy from ExoPaul is that pulling out of the EU will reduce Britian's manufacturing cost base. In order to export to its main market, the EU, the British will have to comply with every single EU regulation relating to those exported products. They will have absolutely no say in any future legislation which they will have to comply with in turn. The result is that they will be slowly squeezed out of European markets as they fall further and further out of step with the European legislative framework.

That will be a result for the Little Britainers.

Br Cornelius

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Posted (edited)

90% of the British economy does not trade with the EU. and as for losing jobs, we had no problem losing 150,000 British jobs and ruining our fishing towns/communities and fishing fleets thanks to being EU members. and in doing so affectively handed over our fishing grounds of which 80% of the fish in europe is caught in UK waters.

so i say to Japan, if you want to leave, go, we have far more to lose if we remain EU members. lets not kid ourselves these global businesses are built on shifting sands. no loyalty,

the British government should start helping the true economy of the UK, the small to medium companies who employ the majority of the work force and contribute more to their local economies than these big multinationals who seek tax loopholes and have tax havens. and here im not talking about some tax haven in the Caribbean. no, - look no further than Luxembourg in the EU. one example: Amazon.co.uk. £10Billion pound profit. in the UK and over 9 years they have paid just £3 million in tax in the UK.

because the UK Amazon operation avoids tax as the ownership of the main Amazon.co.uk business was transferred to a Luxembourg company in 2006. The UK business is now owned by Amazon EU Sarl and the UK operation is classed only as an "order fulfilment" business. All payments for books, DVDs and other goods go directly to Luxembourg. The UK business is simply a delivery organisation.

Those companies located to the UK because they were assisted, by the lax regulations, to offshore their profits away from Britain and Europe. How is a Government who has built the recent economy on encouraging tax avoidance, going to change to make those companies pay their way ?

The British Government has not supported small to medium enterprises for about 30years at this stage.

Pulling out of our main export market and then losing the small bit of revenue the large inward investors produce will all but sink the British economy.

Screwy logic strikes again.

Br Cornelius

Edited by Br Cornelius

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Posted (edited)

As you can see, the EU is no longer britain's main export market-

.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/9410648/Britains-main-export-market-is-no-longer-the-EU.html

.

a position it will probably never be in again either.

as Exopaul quite rightly said, we're ditching the crippled EU and going back to our traditional export markets of the colonies, with the USA, latin america, and the far east too.

our days of being beholden to brussels are being put rapidly behind us.

Edited by shrooma
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As you can see, the EU is no longer britain's main export market-

.

http://www.telegraph...ger-the-EU.html

.

a position it will probably never be in again either.

as Exopaul quite rightly said, we're ditching the crippled EU and going back to our traditional export markets of the colonies, with the USA, latin america, and the far east too.

our days of being beholden to brussels are being put rapidly behind us.

Quite a deceptive interpretation of the survey (what would you expect from the Telegraph) - it clearly shows that the EU still accounts for our biggest single trade zone at just under half of all exports (49%). That's a huge amount of potential decline.

Br Cornelius

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And once again quite a deceptive sidestep from you to be able to focus objectively where the subject of the EU is concerned Br.

maybe this report from the Daily Mail would be more palatable?

.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2175647/The-export-revolution-For-time-1970s-Britain-sells-goods-countries-outside-EU-inside.html

.

or are they just being biased too....?

if you notice the poll from "little britain's" business leaders, you'll note that the largest percentage of them want to remain in the EU, but to renegotiate a looser agreement, which would probably be a good idea, as no matter which way you look at it, the rest of the world, from the USA to the far east, are s**tting themselves about "little britain" leaving the EU.

also, while the EU remains our biggest SINGLE market, exports to these countries are actually falling, so developing other markets seems prudent, as the 'potential decline' you mention isn't so much 'potential' as 'actually happening'.

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They are ****ting themselves because they will lose money since they are heavily invested in Britain as their gateway to the EU. If they lose money - then the UK loses money since it will lose another tranch of revenue generating industry and jobs.

The UK's current economic position is built on inward investment and its low tax gateway to the EU status. If it goes it alone it will lose revenue which will force it to increase taxes on the industries which remain further driving inward investment away.

A loser Federation of states is not the way the wind is blowing and no amount of Telegraph or Mail wishful thinking is going to change that fact.

Br Cornelius

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They will have absolutely no say in any future legislation which they will have to comply with in turn.

I seem to recall incidents of Britain trying to have a say in policy and being told "don't try and bully us Britain" by the EU.

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of course the EU is going to be our biggest trading block. the geographic location means it will always play a major part in UK trade. just look at the trade to Ireland. but one thing is for sure, the UK can have the best of both worlds, we can leave the EU and under their own rules the option is there remain in the free trade agreement, okay we lose the ability to have a influence, but we've already lost that. our vetos have gone, we are continually out voted. and yet were still one of the major contributers to the EU. and not just in monetary terms.

We run a deficit with the EU. we import more from EU than they do from us. is Germany the Netherlands France Belgium and the rest going to stop trading with us because we are not full EU members? - NO is the answer, But if the EU wanted to be vindictive if they did limit trade then it would hurt them more than it would hurt us, but maybe just maybe this would be the moment that changes the UK for the better and spur us on to bigger and better things. the government at home would need to invest in the future of the country and the people instead of the current situation.

a part of me likes to think the UK is playing a blinder when it comes to the EU, when you think we've always been a great reformer in the EU, but it wont have escaped peoples attention that we never truly go along - fully sign up, even though we played a pivotal part in the process. are we creating a stability in europe to benefit us? but to also shackle those in the EU? think about it, look what the EU/€uro currency has created today. Germany is basically bankrolling southern europe. debts are mounting in the €urozone that can never be paid back. maybe we need to remain EU members until the job is complete? while every one is shackled together were slowly making our way to the exit. in a uncertain world i'd rather be in Britain's position, a position in which we have room to maneuver. and not shackled to failed or failing economies.

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I think that what will happen when the UK withdraws from the EU, is that it will give a huge impetus to Start Up companies in the EU to fill the gap left when EU Tariffs make certain UK Products too expensive. This will actually be good for the economy of Europe and will give it a boost, whilst the UK suppliers will be left with lots of goods with no Market.

At the top end of luxury goods then of course the UK will always have a market because those wealthy enough to purchase the goods today will still be wealthy enough to purchase them in the future.

I dowonder however whether or not Rolls Royce,Bentley, and mini production will be moved to BMW in Europe to avoid the additional tariffs imposed on importing from the UK where they are currently built.

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Posted (edited)

Its just strange logic to assume a country with no special advantages and a history of disfunctional industry will be able to make a significant impact on the world stage.

People refer back to some Golden Victorian age where British Industry ruled the world - but the reality was that it obtained cheap resources from the empire and had a captive market within the empire. The situation nowdays are completely different - Britain is a small fish in an ocean of sharks competing with countries with a much lower cost base than its own. Anything Britain can do India and China can match (including research) cheaper.

A tariff free open market is such an advantage in the modern world that there are countries queuing up to join it. England (lets get this clear here - it is only England and not Britain) is living in a pink cloud of reminiscence about a history which never really existed for most of the citizens. It has a huge bump coming if it allows the Tories to steer it down the path of withdrawl.

Br Cornelius

Edited by Br Cornelius
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i'm not sure the tories will get back in Br. & they've said they won't hold a referendum until after the next election, so i think they're playing both sides against the middle, so if they don't get re-elected, the next Govt. holds a referendum, we pull out of europe, it all goes t**s-up, they can say it wasn't their fault, or if they get re-elected, they'll renege on their promise of a referendum and go for a re-negotiation package instead!

they're slimy b'stards don't forget.....

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I think that what will happen when the UK withdraws from the EU, is that it will give a huge impetus to Start Up companies in the EU to fill the gap left when EU Tariffs make certain UK Products too expensive. This will actually be good for the economy of Europe and will give it a boost, whilst the UK suppliers will be left with lots of goods with no Market.

At the top end of luxury goods then of course the UK will always have a market because those wealthy enough to purchase the goods today will still be wealthy enough to purchase them in the future.

I dowonder however whether or not Rolls Royce,Bentley, and mini production will be moved to BMW in Europe to avoid the additional tariffs imposed on importing from the UK where they are currently built.

Do not forget the vast majority of cars built in the UK get exported to countries outside the EU. the figure stands at over 86%. so why move production to mainland europe? and avoid tariffs, maybe they'll invest more in the UK which is what is currently happening. we already have the factories the skilled work force and the delivery network infrastructure in place to ship cars around the world. Ford CEO Ste Odell said about car manufacturing in the EU, he said "its twice as expensive to build a car in europe. due to EU red tape", - if europe is the future why is ford moving production away from the EU, with Turkey and Russia being the main choice. of course they'll keep a presence in Germany to keep a voice within the EU. but the writing is on the wall for production in Spain, - but like i've said before these multinational companies are built on shifting sand. its not unique to the UK they will and do leave the EU. Ford of Europes biggest market is the United Kingdom. yet they are moving production away from here. so as you can see they dont mind us being their number one customer in europe but they wont reward that with manufacturing here.

month after month i sit in meetings at work and our sales are global, the vast majority go outside the EU, the slide show presentation tells us the future is not europe, hence were building a plant in China in partnership with Cherry, building a plant in Saudi Arabia, in partnership with their government in return for building a aluminum plant there also. Mexico is also on the list of possibilities. the main reason for building these plants is the high cost of EU tariffs for exporting outside the EU. and those imposed by the importer country on goods from the EU. a good example a freelander2 costs start at £23,000 yet the same vehicle if we export it to India or China goes up to £80,000 in India and nearly £120,000 in China, and thats down to export and import tax. if we was outside the EU would could get this cost down. so were being hampered by the EU when it comes to sales outside the EU. but this also goes for the other car manufactures in europe, the likes of Audi, - VW, -Mercedes ect.. have been in China for over 15 years. making huge profit and avoiding all the import / export taxes. To me a lot of protectionism goes on with the EU.

Odell Launched a blistering attack against EU red tape which he says doubles the cost of building a car by adding nearly £6,000 to the bill. Stephen Odell, executive vice president of Ford Motor Company and president of Ford Europe, Middle East and Africa, made his remarks at ‘the Future of Manufacturing’ summit held at the Cranfield Business School, in Bedford. He said: ‘EU regulations add approximately £6,000 to the cost of an average car. 'They make it approximately twice as expensive as it otherwise would be.

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in related news:

In a letter to Foreign Secretary William Hague, foreign affairs minister Bob Carr told Mr Hague that that Britain should continue to have “strong, active” EU membership.

In the letter sent on 14 February as a contribution to Mr Hague's single market aspect of a review of Britain’s relationship with the EU, Mr Carr paid tribute to its links to both London and Brussels.

However Mr Carr emphasised that “the scope and depth of EU and Australian bilateral relations has intensified in recent times”.

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Posted (edited)

Don't you work for Jaguar steve, hardly representative of the British car industry. Hardly informative about British Industry in general.

Do you also think that outside of the EU the red tape would disappear - to my knowledge exporting to the USA imposes a far stricter set of constraints on British car manufacturers. Aren't most of those requirements designed to ensure safe cars and less pollution for the tax payer to pick up the bill on ? Why do you assume that the UK could negotiate lower tariffs than the EU ? Has the UK got a better bargaining position ?

Br Cornelius

Edited by Br Cornelius

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A tariff free open market is such an advantage in the modern world that there are countries queuing up to join it. England (lets get this clear here - it is only England and not Britain) is living in a pink cloud of reminiscence about a history which never really existed for most of the citizens. It has a huge bump coming if it allows the Tories to steer it down the path of withdrawl.

Br Cornelius

Red herring. Leaving the EU would not mean abandon free trade. Are Norway and Switzerland basket cases with no European trade because they are not part of the EU and its insanity?

Last time I looked, they were the most successful economies in the area.

Is Japan unable to sell Toyotas in Europe because is is not in the EU? Err.. no.

I wish people would not so easily swallow the stupid propaganda slogans emanating from Brussels.

Breaking up the EU in its current form is not the end of "Europe". To the contrary, it would be a return to sanity and democracy for Europe.

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It is the like of Toyota advising the British that they will relocate to Europe if we withdraw which is the sound basis of my concern. The job loses of 150,000 are based on the loss of companies like Toyota and Nissan - do you think they are hollow threats ? Transnational companies are not known for their political loyalty - if their margins contract they move and that would most likely mean Ireland, or one of the former eastern block countries.

Norway has its oil which is its special advantage. Switzerland sits on the worlds dirty money as the basis of its economy - hardly good examples.

The only way I can see Britain been able to compete is by further lowering its already appalling wages and working conditions - that is the main freedom they would gain from leaving the EU.

Br Cornelius

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Posted (edited)

Don't you work for Jaguar steve, hardly representative of the British car industry. Hardly informative about British Industry in general.

Do you also think that outside of the EU the red tape would disappear - to my knowledge exporting to the USA imposes a far stricter set of constraints on British car manufacturers. Aren't most of those requirements designed to ensure safe cars and less pollution for the tax payer to pick up the bill on ? Why do you assume that the UK could negotiate lower tariffs than the EU ? Has the UK got a better bargaining position ?

Br Cornelius

with the British car industry set to become the second biggest in europe by 2015, car sales have been falling in europe, and continue to do so, its only the UK whose sales prevented europe from posting yet another fall, that shows the impact we have. you seem to forget you've dealing with one of the worlds oldest and largest economies. not some little tin pot nation.you should not dismiss the benefits the UK would have in being able to negotiation its own trade policy. look at Switzerland they signed a free trade agreement with China. revenue from Chinese trade from last year (2012) was $26.31 billion. now after the trade agreement the figure alone for the first five months of this year surged to $22.89 billion. yet Switzerland who are the worlds 20th largest economy and not a full EU member can pull off such a stroke, yet here we are the United Kingdom, fifth largest economy, third largest in Europe - full EU member yet forbidden from striking such a deal. this in my view shows that the UK should have a Switzerland style relationship with the EU. then we could have free trade agreements and trade policies to suit our ever expanding markets outside the EU. since 1973 the UK trade as been in surplus with every continent. yet with Europe we have run a deficit. that says it all. the UK, just needs to keep improving and we'll be fine. the point will be reached were we can then bury the whole in out debate for good.

http://www.reuters.c...E96503E20130706

It is the like of Toyota advising the British that they will relocate to Europe if we withdraw which is the sound basis of my concern. The job loses of 150,000 are based on the loss of companies like Toyota and Nissan - do you think they are hollow threats ? Transnational companies are not known for their political loyalty - if their margins contract they move and that would most likely mean Ireland, or one of the former eastern block countries.

Norway has its oil which is its special advantage. Switzerland sits on the worlds dirty money as the basis of its economy - hardly good examples.

The only way I can see Britain been able to compete is by further lowering its already appalling wages and working conditions - that is the main freedom they would gain from leaving the EU.

Br Cornelius

you've already said this yourself there is no loyalty. do you think Japan has the UK's best interest at heart. do not kid yourself their only worrying about the rise of Korean cars in europe. the free trade deal struck in 2009 with south Korea. Japan and the EU are still negotiating such a deal. so you can see this "warning" is not for the benefit of the UK its all about "them" like i said in a previous post, did you cry blue murder when we lost over 100,000 jobs and ruined century old communities when we handed over our fishing grounds. and now we see our waters plundered by EU rules and quotas, not to mention the fishing fleets of mainly Portugal France. c'mon get with the program.

Edited by stevewinn
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