Jump to content
Join the Unexplained Mysteries community today! It's free and setting up an account only takes a moment.
- Sign In or Create Account -

Israeli MDs Harvesting Human Organs


Yamato

Recommended Posts

Just wanted to contribute my .02 here:

People have an objective opinion towards China, people can have an objective opinion towards president Obama, for examples.

It is definitely a God given freedom every one should enjoy. But have an objective opinion towards Israel ... gets you labeled a "anti-semite".

To some, the ball doesn't play on an equal court. That is just flat-out demented and startling facist if you ask me.

It kinda reminds me of that piece of scripture in Revelations by which those who refuse to receive (those who chose to have an objective opinion towards...) the mark of the beast are ostracized from society, denied their rights, and beheaded.

Is the State of Israel in the future going to possess global thought- and speech- police (gustapo)? Or do they already do? I mean, really?!

Edited by B Jenkins
  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just wanted to contribute my .02 here:

People have an objective opinion towards China, people can have an objective opinion towards president Obama, for examples.

It is definitely a God given freedom every one should enjoy. But have an objective opinion towards Israel ... gets you labeled a "anti-semite".

To some, the ball doesn't play on an equal court. That is just flat-out demented and startling facist if you ask me.

It kinda reminds me of that piece of scripture in Revelations by which those who refuse to receive (those who chose to have an objective opinion towards...) the mark of the beast are ostracized from society, denied their rights, and beheaded.

Is the State of Israel in the future going to possess global thought- and speech- police (gustapo)? Or do they already do? I mean, really?!

When most of the "objective" opinions involve slander and libel then yeah...I guess people can have a legitimate problem with that. The obvious purpose of the OP is to frame the idea that Israel is stealing organs from the poor or dispossessed and making money from the enterprise. It's an elegant reshuffling of the blood libel AND the "Jews are money hungry" slanders....
Link to comment
Share on other sites

When most of the "objective" opinions involve slander and libel then yeah...I guess people can have a legitimate problem with that. The obvious purpose of the OP is to frame the idea that Israel is stealing organs from the poor or dispossessed and making money from the enterprise. It's an elegant reshuffling of the blood libel AND the "Jews are money hungry" slanders....

I interpreted the article as exploiting the poor for invaluable body parts. The only thing I take the countries into account for is their wealth distribution where Israel in this instance clearly shadows these poorer countries. The thing that gets me though is seeing the rebuttal, "Oh, no one is forcing them to do it, it's their choice".

Pay some poor person from a different country something one there would consider a treasure chest of coins for an invaluable part of their body, then make more money off the people they are actually helping "jump the lines" to the operating table.

Is that really ok?

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

When most of the "objective" opinions involve slander and libel then yeah...I guess people can have a legitimate problem with that. The obvious purpose of the OP is to frame the idea that Israel is stealing organs from the poor or dispossessed and making money from the enterprise. It's an elegant reshuffling of the blood libel AND the "Jews are money hungry" slanders....

I don't know, and then... have you ever googled or yahooed "Israel harvesting organs", "Israel harvesting organs from dead Palestinians without permission", etc?

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I interpreted the article as exploiting the poor for invaluable body parts. The only thing I take the countries into account for is their wealth distribution where Israel in this instance clearly shadows these poorer countries. The thing that gets me though is seeing the rebuttal, "Oh, no one is forcing them to do it, it's their choice".

Pay some poor person from a different country something one there would consider a treasure chest of coins for an invaluable part of their body, then make more money off the people they are actually helping "jump the lines" to the operating table.

Is that really ok?

Frankly I find the idea of buying and selling human organs unseemly. But it isn't illegal in most countries and the real point of the OP was to frame an ugly libel against Jews - as though they are the only ones who do such things. Just keeping the propagandist as honest as I can.... As shrooma pointed out in a most rational way - if organ donation were mandatory unless a person signed an opt out clause then this industry would die a natural death anyway. There would quickly be a surplus of organs. It's about religious and deeply personal issues that people cling to and refuse to do what is rational. Still, enough WOULD allow harvesting because they just don't care, that the problem could be solved. I'd even take the idea a step further and give immediate family the right to veto the harvesting unless the individual had expressed a desire to donate prior to death. It is a tragedy that thousands of perfectly good hearts, lungs, livers and kidneys are placed in a hole in the ground due to superstition and religion and worst of all - plain ignorance of there even being a demand.

Real people could be saved daily if an answer was found. Mandatory decision making (which is all he called for) could make the difference in hundreds of thousands of lives.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It is definitely a God given freedom every one should enjoy. But have an objective opinion towards Israel ... gets you labeled a "anti-semite".

Bullying. Attack the person when the objectivity can't be dealt with, and all but rule out any possibility of fair discussion after that too, unfortunately.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Bullying. Attack the person when the objectivity can't be dealt with, and all but rule out any possibility of fair discussion after that too, unfortunately.

So expressing an alternative position to a stated premise is bullying? Posting up a piece that is obviously meant to inflame against ONE group when they take part in a practice that is common in the world is an objective stance? Got caught with your hand in the cookie jar Yam... no point shedding crocodile tears about it.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Frankly I find the idea of buying and selling human organs unseemly. But it isn't illegal in most countries and the real point of the OP was to frame an ugly libel against Jews - as though they are the only ones who do such things. Just keeping the propagandist as honest as I can.... As shrooma pointed out in a most rational way - if organ donation were mandatory unless a person signed an opt out clause then this industry would die a natural death anyway. There would quickly be a surplus of organs. It's about religious and deeply personal issues that people cling to and refuse to do what is rational. Still, enough WOULD allow harvesting because they just don't care, that the problem could be solved. I'd even take the idea a step further and give immediate family the right to veto the harvesting unless the individual had expressed a desire to donate prior to death. It is a tragedy that thousands of perfectly good hearts, lungs, livers and kidneys are placed in a hole in the ground due to superstition and religion and worst of all - plain ignorance of there even being a demand.

Real people could be saved daily if an answer was found. Mandatory decision making (which is all he called for) could make the difference in hundreds of thousands of lives.

I honestly didn't get that impression from the OP. I am a registered organ donor myself. People's bodies will just rot in the ground or a fire or whatever sort of burial one chooses. The body will eventually give itself to something. So why not help save someone's life instead?

What I have a problem with is a wealthy country abusing their wealth to obtain an invaluable part of ones body in a severely disadvantaged country. It's the difference between being able to do it within your own country and exploiting another country simply due to differing economic and wealth distribution levels.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So expressing an alternative position to a stated premise is bullying? Posting up a piece that is obviously meant to inflame against ONE group when they take part in a practice that is common in the world is an objective stance? Got caught with your hand in the cookie jar Yam... no point shedding crocodile tears about it.

Accusing someone of being against someone for their ethnicity/religion is absurd and pathetic and completely unacceptable. You should be ashamed of yourself and you owe me an apology for the many times you've used that term to describe me as a person.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I honestly didn't get that impression from the OP. I am a registered organ donor myself. People's bodies will just rot in the ground or a fire or whatever sort of burial one chooses. The body will eventually give itself to something. So why not help save someone's life instead?

What I have a problem with is a wealthy country abusing their wealth to obtain an invaluable part of ones body in a severely disadvantaged country. It's the difference between being able to do it within your own country and exploiting another country simply due to differing economic and wealth distribution levels.

That's exactly what's wrong with it. It's preying on starving, desperate people, not the altruistic heroes painted up by shrooma. If, per shrooma, Israel just made organ donation mandatory (with an opt out), Israelis wouldn't need organs anymore, there would be a fresh local supply of them there at all times. But shrooma blows this up into a worldwide issue, a utopian globe where everything is free and everybody so charitable and obedient, no enforcement is necessary. And the reason why one travels on a tangent that long is to get the point of discussion off of Israel.

The globe isn't trafficking organs; Israel is. Chinese trafficking is no better than Israel's, and it's no excuse for Israel to do it.

One of the oldest and most classic Zionist rebuttals to Israel's crimes is "No, don't look at Israel, look at these other crimes over here that someone else is doing!". And it's hard to steer the discussion back on topic when doing so is "antisemitic". Yes it's a critical article on Israel. Israel's policies are inhuman; it is no example of something to emulate in the world.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Accusing someone of being against someone for their ethnicity/religion is absurd and pathetic and completely unacceptable. You should be ashamed of yourself and you owe me an apology for the many times you've used that term to describe me as a person.

WHAT term? My statement stands for itself. Unlike several here I do not call names. But this article implies in a very direct way that this practice is abhorrent and that it is done in Israel. Not Israel AND the US or Israel and South Africa or.... just Israel. And that is an unfair characterization. As I said, I find it unseemly that this practice is done anywhere but it certainly isn't confined to Israel alone. The Chinese have been doing it for years - they even take organs from executed prisoners. It is reminiscent of the blood libel and the old "Jews are money grubbers" slander of many years. If the reason for posting the story was not to single Israel out then why exactly did you post it?
Link to comment
Share on other sites

WHAT term? My statement stands for itself. Unlike several here I do not call names. But this article implies in a very direct way that this practice is abhorrent and that it is done in Israel. Not Israel AND the US or Israel and South Africa or.... just Israel. And that is an unfair characterization.

The term "antisemitic". This accusation destroys any possibility of gentlemanly debate with someone who simply agrees with you on Israeli policy. It's reprehensible and I'll forgive you if you can apologize.

It's unfair?

"Someone else does it too" makes it fair? That's the reasoning of a five year old. Israel should be weighed on its own merits, like everywhere else.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The term "antisemitic". This accusation destroys any possibility of gentlemanly debate with someone who simply agrees with you on Israeli policy. It's reprehensible and I'll forgive you if you can apologize.

It's unfair?

"Someone else does it too" makes it fair? That's the reasoning of a five year old. Israel should be weighed on its own merits, like everywhere else.

Hmm, the term "antisemitic" thrown around by others seems a lot like your "statist" term that you throw around at people who have beliefs different from you...

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The term "antisemitic". This accusation destroys any possibility of gentlemanly debate with someone who simply agrees with you on Israeli policy. It's reprehensible and I'll forgive you if you can apologize.

It's unfair?

"Someone else does it too" makes it fair? That's the reasoning of a five year old. Israel should be weighed on its own merits, like everywhere else.

I did not "call" you anything. If you took my description of your behavior to mean that I think you are an antiSemite then perhaps you should ask yourself why you come to such a conclusion. This article was posted to defame Israel and Jewish doctors -period.

Frankly I think any docs who procure organs for cash in poor countries should be ashamed of themselves - whether they be Israeli, US or Indian -we won't even discuss the Chinese. And people who imply slanderous things about a specific group - even if it is done subtly - should be called on their bias. I don't hesitate to apologise here at UM when I make a mistake or become too impassioned and get insulting. You should try it - very liberating.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hmm, the term "antisemitic" thrown around by others seems a lot like your "statist" term that you throw around at people who have beliefs different from you...

Statist is a political term like liberal, conservative, socialist, libertarian; there's nothing insulting about it, it defines one's political views. The term antisemitic is like calling someone a racist. It's accusing me of hating a group of people for their characteristics. Absurd. Why are even false accusations defensible now?

I did not "call" you anything. If you took my description of your behavior to mean that I think you are an antiSemite then perhaps you should ask yourself why you come to such a conclusion. This article was posted to defame Israel and Jewish doctors -period.

Frankly I think any docs who procure organs for cash in poor countries should be ashamed of themselves - whether they be Israeli, US or Indian -we won't even discuss the Chinese. And people who imply slanderous things about a specific group - even if it is done subtly - should be called on their bias. I don't hesitate to apologise here at UM when I make a mistake or become too impassioned and get insulting. You should try it - very liberating.

When I have something to apologize for, I do it as well. But you call people antisemitic for disagreeing with Israeli policy. Do you realize how much of an insult this is? Do you realize how out of bounds you are for accusing people of it? For all you know me, and for all I know you, you're the one with the anti-Jewish problem and that's why in YOUR bias, you're trying to get them all killed by herding them all into a strip of land that's going to burn in the final battle. The point is, if we're going to throw ugly words like this around and use them on each other and not apologize for it, I can play that game too, but frankly, I would rather ask you kindly to stop using it multiple times before I debase myself with that kind of desperate regrettable language.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Statist is a political term like liberal, conservative, socialist, libertarian; there's nothing insulting about it, it defines one's political views. The term antisemitic is like calling someone a racist. It's accusing me of hating a group of people for their characteristics. Absurd. Why are even false accusations defensible now?

When I have something to apologize for, I do it as well. But you call people antisemitic for disagreeing with Israeli policy. Do you realize how much of an insult this is? Do you realize how out of bounds you are for accusing people of it? For all you know me, and for all I know you, you're the one with the anti-Jewish problem and that's why in YOUR bias, you're trying to get them all killed by herding them all into a strip of land that's going to burn in the final battle. The point is, if we're going to throw ugly words like this around and use them on each other and not apologize for it, I can play that game too, but frankly, I would rather ask you kindly to stop using it multiple times before I debase myself with that kind of desperate regrettable language.

If you can show me where I called you an anti Semite I will gladly apologize to you. My memory isn't what it was, for sure, but the only person at UM I THINK I've been angry enough at to accuse of being such is another member.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you can show me where I called you an anti Semite I will gladly apologize to you. My memory isn't what it was, for sure, but the only person at UM I THINK I've been angry enough at to accuse of being such is another member.

Your hypothetical apology is good enough for me to count as a real one. So long as you don't do it again in the future, even liking the posts of others when they do it, then I'll be able to believe that your apology was genuine. Fair enough?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Your hypothetical apology is good enough for me to count as a real one. So long as you don't do it again in the future, even liking the posts of others when they do it, then I'll be able to believe that your apology was genuine. Fair enough?

I do not believe I have ever called you such a thing. And I will "like" the opinions of others as I see fit. Have you never "liked" a statement that included more than a single point? Did you totally agree with everything in the post? And I ask again - WHY did you post an article that defames Israel alone in the business of organ sales? Do you not see how leading such an article could be? There was no intent to rattle a cage there? If not then I apologise for the assumption but when your previous posts are taken in toto it seems reasonable that you would do such a thing...
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I do not believe I have ever called you such a thing. And I will "like" the opinions of others as I see fit. Have you never "liked" a statement that included more than a single point? Did you totally agree with everything in the post? And I ask again - WHY did you post an article that defames Israel alone in the business of organ sales? Do you not see how leading such an article could be? There was no intent to rattle a cage there? If not then I apologise for the assumption but when your previous posts are taken in toto it seems reasonable that you would do such a thing...

So you liked something else in the posts calling me antisemitic? Am I an "Islamist"?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Now we have a story that singles Israel out from other human organ crimes. In a shocking escalation of the OP story, we see Israel has other even more ghoulish sources for its organs. They even admitted executing this policy until it supposedly ended in the 1990s! Could this be why the youth of Gaza are such a preferred target? Could younger organs mean better results for their body snatching?

Doctor admits Israeli pathologists harvested organs without consent

Israel has admitted pathologists harvested organs from dead Palestinians, and others, without the consent of their families – a practice it said ended in the 1990s – it emerged at the weekend. The admission, by the former head of the country's forensic institute, followed a furious row prompted by a Swedish newspaper reporting that Israel was killing Palestinians in order to use their organs – a charge that Israel denied and called "antisemitic".

http://www.theguardi...arvested-organs

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Now we have a story that singles Israel out from other human organ crimes. In a shocking escalation of the OP story, we see Israel has other even more ghoulish sources for its organs. They even admitted executing this policy until it supposedly ended in the 1990s! Could this be why the youth of Gaza are such a preferred target? Could younger organs mean better results for their body snatching?

Doctor admits Israeli pathologists harvested organs without consent

Israel has admitted pathologists harvested organs from dead Palestinians, and others, without the consent of their families – a practice it said ended in the 1990s – it emerged at the weekend. The admission, by the former head of the country's forensic institute, followed a furious row prompted by a Swedish newspaper reporting that Israel was killing Palestinians in order to use their organs – a charge that Israel denied and called "antisemitic".

http://www.theguardi...arvested-organs

To take the remains of a person without the consent of their family is despicable and hurtful AND illegal, I'm sure. Those who did this should be tried and jailed IMO. But you take a large leap to suggest that youths (the primary elements of every protest) are singled out to be killed for their organs. It is an assumption one CAN make but what would have to be your mindset when that is the first thing you assume? Could it not be that some criminal Israeli pathologists were taking advantage of an ongoing feud? Must it be some nefarious government conspiracy from start to finish?
Link to comment
Share on other sites

To take the remains of a person without the consent of their family is despicable and hurtful AND illegal, I'm sure. Those who did this should be tried and jailed IMO. But you take a large leap to suggest that youths (the primary elements of every protest) are singled out to be killed for their organs. It is an assumption one CAN make but what would have to be your mindset when that is the first thing you assume? Could it not be that some criminal Israeli pathologists were taking advantage of an ongoing feud? Must it be some nefarious government conspiracy from start to finish?

It sounds conspiratorial doesn't it? But I'm merely questioning this. Of course we question anytime 800,000 children are surrounded by military force and cut off from the rest of the world with tyrannical economic warfare interrupted only by air and ground strikes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Now we have a story that singles Israel out from other human organ crimes. In a shocking escalation of the OP story, we see Israel has other even more ghoulish sources for its organs. They even admitted executing this policy until it supposedly ended in the 1990s! Could this be why the youth of Gaza are such a preferred target? Could younger organs mean better results for their body snatching?

Doctor admits Israeli pathologists harvested organs without consent

Israel has admitted pathologists harvested organs from dead Palestinians, and others, without the consent of their families – a practice it said ended in the 1990s – it emerged at the weekend. The admission, by the former head of the country's forensic institute, followed a furious row prompted by a Swedish newspaper reporting that Israel was killing Palestinians in order to use their organs – a charge that Israel denied and called "antisemitic".

http://www.theguardi...arvested-organs

They also said they had no chemical weapons until a military transport crashed and revealed a large cache was being held within of such. They had ratified but not signed the chemical weapons act at this point.

The fact they further claim to have no nuclear weapons but even their allies, the US, the department of national security hints they do as well as other third party sources. Also have not signed the NPT. One of very few countries withholding such information. The others primarily being India and Pakistan where their intentions for thia are towards each other.

Take everything controlled and announced by the Zionist leaders with a grain of salt.

I just want to say it baffles me how people are so ready to jump to the defence of a bunch of liars. When political integrity is so disregarded by these people in power. How can you possibly trust what they're saying?

Edited by Orcseeker
  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

They also said they had no chemical weapons until a military transport crashed and revealed a large cache was being held within of such. They had ratified but not signed the chemical weapons act at this point.

The fact they further claim to have no nuclear weapons but even their allies, the US, the department of national security hints they do as well as other third party sources. Also have not signed the NPT. One of very few countries withholding such information. The others primarily being India and Pakistan where their intentions for thia are towards each other.

Take everything controlled and announced by the Zionist leaders with a grain of salt.

I just want to say it baffles me how people are so ready to jump to the defence of a bunch of liars. When political integrity is so disregarded by these people in power. How can you possibly trust what they're saying?

For my part, I am NOT denying or defending what they did - simply pointing out that it's no worse than many other countries and it has not been shown to be a policy of the government. Just an example of criminal behavior by individuals. Yam just uses it as a convenient club to beat the dead horse.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.