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Yamato

The difference between Liberal & Conservative

10 posts in this topic

is nothing worth fighting about.

Socailism%20to%20Voluntarism%20Ven%20Diagram.jpg

Unless we're actually going to engage in the usual right-wing arguments about Obamacare plus nothing George W. Bush did. But that's not what I'm going to engage in. I've said it before I'll say it again. President Obama is the 3rd and 4th term of Bush, plus Obamacare. Simply having more time to do more of the same crap is hardly a difference.

The real battle over modern American politics are the statists vs. libertarians. And that's the reason for the contempt on display for both of these two groups. And unlike the partisan-fueled differences people can feign actually exist, that's a real reason worth fighting about.

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Most people will identify themselves as liberals/conservatives/libertarians based on whichever few voting topics they feel most strongly about. I identify as a moderate who varies between the 3 stances(and probably more) from topic to topic.

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Posted (edited)

Most people will identify themselves as liberals/conservatives/libertarians based on whichever few voting topics they feel most strongly about. I identify as a moderate who varies between the 3 stances(and probably more) from topic to topic.

I too find it kind of crazy how the 2 big American political partys have divided various political issues among themselves and are fighting tooth and nail for dominance of their whole package.

I agree on some issues with one party and on some with the other. But on a lot of issues, I strongly disagree with both.

Although I must say in the polemics and demagogery department, the Democrats and their sycophantic media are heads above the Republicans. But I suppose that is because their talking points largley represent the political correctness that the media have bought into.

Edited by Zaphod222
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It's oft repeated that there's no material difference between the two parties and I can't agree with that sentiment more. The link I've had on my signature expresses that agreement.

But not often is it said that there's also no real difference between liberals and conservatives. They largely agree on the big picture, like what the role of government ought to be. The differences seem to be measured in tweaks and squeaks. After doing some homework on this, the differences on paper between liberal and conservatives are immense on the issues, but for some reason I just can't see how what should be enormous differences in values, beliefs and ideals are translated into legislation or administration. Either do this, or do that, for every issue that comes across the nation's desk. Rarely is the question asked by anyone from either label: Should the federal government be doing anything at all?

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Posted (edited)

Robert Anton Wilson goes into some detail why volunteerism cannot work in modern America in this article p19 A FEW BLUNT STATEMENTS ABOUT NEURO ECONOMICS;

https://skydrive.liv...473&app=WordPdf

Well worth reading before you all disappear down the rabbit hole of abstraction.

The world has moved on to the point where old tribal solidarity has been replaced by the Market. Anyone left to the whims of the market to find security in hard times will likely die before someone volunteers to help them out.

This thread is abstract noodling of the first order devoid of any contact with real understanding of modern society or the drivers of human nature.

Br Cornelius

Edited by Br Cornelius

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Do we get one of these every fortnight from now on?

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Posted (edited)

Unless we're actually going to engage in the usual right-wing arguments about Obamacare plus nothing George W. Bush did. But that's not what I'm going to engage in. I've said it before I'll say it again. President Obama is the 3rd and 4th term of Bush, plus Obamacare. Simply having more time to do more of the same crap is hardly a difference.

The real battle over modern American politics are the statists vs. libertarians. And that's the reason for the contempt on display for both of these two groups. And unlike the partisan-fueled differences people can feign actually exist, that's a real reason worth fighting about.

I thought the main difference in modern (last decade) conservatives and liberals is their Social stands. Fiscally both are pretty much the same,with what the money is spent on being slightly different, but not monsterously so.

The social stands of the two ideologies are "old school" conservatives (many of them Christians), and "post-modern" progressives (who claim to want everyone treated the same, but actually are hopelessly bigoted on just about all subjects).

One problem with looking up the differences between Conservatives and Liberals on the internet is that all sites seem to be bias, and so a Liberal leaning site will demonize conservatism, and Conservative sites the opposite. Both sides will say the other is against education, security, liberty, individual success, science, and that the other side is unethical, immoral, and just downright wrong.

It almost always comes down to each side saying... These are our broad beliefs and accepted goals, and those being contrasted... not by the other sides broad beliefs, but by individual examples showing how the other side is bad/evil. When it is super easy for either side to point at individuals and say the other side is corrupt.

political%20spectrum%20circle%20graph.gif

Edited by DieChecker
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I thought the main difference in modern (last decade) conservatives and liberals is their Social stands. Fiscally both are pretty much the same,with what the money is spent on being slightly different, but not monsterously so.

The social stands of the two ideologies are "old school" conservatives (many of them Christians), and "post-modern" progressives (who claim to want everyone treated the same, but actually are hopelessly bigoted on just about all subjects).

One problem with looking up the differences between Conservatives and Liberals on the internet is that all sites seem to be bias, and so a Liberal leaning site will demonize conservatism, and Conservative sites the opposite. Both sides will say the other is against education, security, liberty, individual success, science, and that the other side is unethical, immoral, and just downright wrong.

It almost always comes down to each side saying... These are our broad beliefs and accepted goals, and those being contrasted... not by the other sides broad beliefs, but by individual examples showing how the other side is bad/evil. When it is super easy for either side to point at individuals and say the other side is corrupt.

political%20spectrum%20circle%20graph.gif

That's an interesting map of general beliefs and it's difficult to tell which one is going to spend less money. Which isn't surprising since conservatives and liberals basically agree on the role of the federal government. It's a difference of spending priorities, the money just blows in the other direction, but money is always spent trying to sell the ideology. So I agree they're basically both the same fiscally but they're both a fiscal disaster.

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That's an interesting map of general beliefs and it's difficult to tell which one is going to spend less money. Which isn't surprising since conservatives and liberals basically agree on the role of the federal government. It's a difference of spending priorities, the money just blows in the other direction, but money is always spent trying to sell the ideology. So I agree they're basically both the same fiscally but they're both a fiscal disaster.

The current crop of politicans anyway. We can still hope that eventually some real fiscal conservatives get into office and cut back.

It is why I hate the various "Keynesian" Democrats. Because they are not true keynesians, but want to use keynesian economics to back their spending in the Hard times, but then want to go ahead with heavy spending in the Good times too. When the keynesian model says that in the good times, you need to cut back strictly on government spending and put that money aside to spend when times are hard. Keynesian economics does not say that you can go on an endless spending spree, running on credit forever.

I'm not even 100% sure that keynesian economics is correct, but I'd at least like those who call its name over an over to validate their platforms to use the theory correctly.

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The current crop of politicans anyway. We can still hope that eventually some real fiscal conservatives get into office and cut back.

It is why I hate the various "Keynesian" Democrats. Because they are not true keynesians, but want to use keynesian economics to back their spending in the Hard times, but then want to go ahead with heavy spending in the Good times too. When the keynesian model says that in the good times, you need to cut back strictly on government spending and put that money aside to spend when times are hard. Keynesian economics does not say that you can go on an endless spending spree, running on credit forever.

I'm not even 100% sure that keynesian economics is correct, but I'd at least like those who call its name over an over to validate their platforms to use the theory correctly.

I'm not 100% sure of that either but I'm 100% sure I agree with every word you said here.

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