Voyages before voyages

[Harte]

Ancient peoples had waterclocks, which depend completely on remaining perfectly still (and level.) Hardly ideal for timekeeping on ships.

Accurate clocks were definitely invented centuries before the discovery of the New World, however. The problem was, they were pendulum clocks - also not good for a rocking ship.

Shipboard timekeeping only became possible with the advent of spring-driven mechanisms, and early on none of these was accurate enough to use.

Harte

[Big Bad Voodoo]

Accurate clocks were definitely invented centuries before the discovery of the New World, however. The problem was, they were pendulum clocks - also not good for a rocking ship.

Wrong. I read it once that Dutch use it for sailing. Plus my college profesor said it. Plus Carl Sagan said it.

Tree sources.

Harte what do you say about others map?

[Swede]

Wrong. I read it once that Dutch use it for sailing. Plus my college profesor said it. Plus Carl Sagan said it.

Tree sources.

Harte what do you say about others map?

http://www.antique-h...cks/default.htm

http://en.wikipedia....ine_chronometer

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_navigation

Edit: Correction

Edited July 27, 2013 by Swede

[Big Bad Voodoo]

Swede,

Michael R. Matthews say they were inprecise. I have three sources where they claim they were precise.

Edited July 27, 2013 by the L

[DingoLingo]

Could it be that with it they messure time? In the end its called astronomical clock. Also there isnt only mechanism, planetary and most importantly ancient clock.

this is only a short clip but there is a full docco on this.. its a astronomical clock.. basically the movements of objects in heaven.. its not a time piece as per say..

[Swede]

Swede,

Michael R. Matthews say they were inprecise. I have three sources where they claim they were precise.

Timeline.

.

[Big Bad Voodoo]

I dont follow you.

Swede what do you say about Rotz map?

[jaylemurph]

Jay you either ignored my previous post where I simply explained how time keeping is used for sailing and calculating longitude or either you can understand it.

Either way you need to read it again.

I understand it perfectly well. Your explanation amounts to, "you look at a clock and, boom!, you have longitude." It's like saying, "You dig up some uranium, and boom!, you have a nuclear bomb." Needless to say, you're leaving out a step or two. As I pointed out, at the very least, you need a sufficiently accurate time piece, a thing which did not exist until the 18th Century.

I mean, if you want to keep in this state of marvelling ignorance by denying the facts and the complexity of the issue, that's fine. But don't try to con people who don't know better than you know what you're talking about. All you're doing is being a pimp for third-hand fringe stupidity: you're not creating it, or taking responsibilty for it, you're just making it available for people who want it.

--Jaylemurph

[jaylemurph]

Wrong. I read it once that Dutch use it for sailing. Plus my college profesor said it. Plus Carl Sagan said it.

Tree sources.

Harte what do you say about others map?

Like I was saying to Oscar Wilde and Neil de Grasse Tyson at an absinthe party just this afternoon, nothing builds confidence or credibilty like unsourced, undocumented citations.

...unless you're actually suggesting a tree /was/ your source, which would be awesome. Trees always struck me as knowing what's up.

--Jaylemurph

[Swede]

I dont follow you.

Swede what do you say about Rotz map?

#1: Kindly study the timeline of nautically effective chronometers.

#2: Rotz map:

http://nla.gov.au/nla.map-f503

#3: Further reading regarding the various misinterpretations and misrepresentations of earlier cartography (as previously alluded to/elaborated upon by Harte and Jayle):

http://www.pibburns.com/smmia5.htm

http://www.intersurf...edony/FOG5.html

http://www.talkorigi...m/oronteus.html

http://www.intersurf...edony/FOG4.html

http://europeanhisto...y/aa030301c.htm

.

[+DieChecker]

I dont follow you.

Swede what do you say about Rotz map?

What about the Rotz map is correct??

It shows Australia (Called Java on the map) reaching from 130 degrees longitude to 200 degrees longitude. Whereas Australia goes from roughly 115 to 155.

It shows Australia reaching from 10 degrees latitude down to 60 degrees latitude. Where Australia actually goes from 10 to 40.

And the size of the Rotz Australia would be like three times the actual size of Australia.

And the coastline does not match at basically any point. In fact if you flipped the image 180 and then tilted it 90 degrees it would be a much, much better fit. Like so...

I don't know the geographical terms of Australia, but basically this puts the point on top, and the bay on the bottom.

Here is a world map where I've roughly penciled in Rotz....

It's not even close...

Edited July 28, 2013 by DieChecker

[Big Bad Voodoo]

Like I was saying to Oscar Wilde and Neil de Grasse Tyson at an absinthe party just this afternoon, nothing builds confidence or credibilty like unsourced, undocumented citations.

...unless you're actually suggesting a tree /was/ your source, which would be awesome. Trees always struck me as knowing what's up.

--Jaylemurph

It was a lapsus.

Swede and Die

So Im only one who see Australia on Rotz map...

Do little twist of your head.

Edited July 28, 2013 by the L

[+DieChecker]

Swede and Die

So Im only one who see Australia on Rotz map...

Do little twist of your head.

I admit that the Rotz map shows something where Australia is at, but aside from that, almost every single detail on that map is wrong. How could a map show coastline to exacting detail, including rivers and islands, and yet be so completely wrong?

I already did a twist in my head, that's how I saw that it resembles Australia if reversed mirror image and then tilted 90 degrees.

[DeWitz]

Like I was saying to Oscar Wilde and Neil de Grasse Tyson at an absinthe party just this afternoon, nothing builds confidence or credibilty like unsourced, undocumented citations.

...unless you're actually suggesting a tree /was/ your source, which would be awesome. Trees always struck me as knowing what's up.

--Jaylemurph

Jayle, was that the same party where Leif Ericsson hit on Admiral Byrd, and Andy Warhol shoved a broken tequila bottle in his face? I was in the bathroom, huddling in the empty bathtub to protect myself from incoming fire from the downstairs neighbor who was aggravated by all the noise. Unfortunately the rounds hit a maple outside. Last I heard, a tree surgeon was still working on it. . .

Edited July 29, 2013 by szentgyorgy

[jaylemurph]

Jayle, was that the same party where Leif Ericsson hit on Admiral Byrd, and Andy Warhol shoved a broken tequila bottle in his face? I was in the bathroom, huddling in the empty bathtub to protect myself from incoming fire from the downstairs neighbor who was aggravated by all the noise. Unfortunately the rounds hit a maple outside. Last I heard, a tree surgeon was still working on it. . .

It could well have been. I excused myself into a private corner with Truman Capote to gossip about the other guests, and anything could have happened.

--Jaylemurph

[Myles]

It doesn't look like Australia at all.

[Big Bad Voodoo]

It is said that Piri Reis map was badly drawn because it has two Amazon rivers, ignoring the fact that beside Amazon river in South America we have more big rivers: Orinoco river and La Plata river.

Edited August 17, 2013 by Melo