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Jeremiah65

Freedom of speech

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Posted (edited)

Ok...I am clueless on this....where does the freedom of speech collide with the ownership of a site?

I am currently fighting it out on another site for the freedom to express....even when the owners disagree.

I get it...they "own" the site...so...does that make it ok to suppress conversation? Is suppression and oppression suddenly ok?

C'mon site owners....spill your guts......tell us the truth. You are ok with "freedom of expression" as long as it does not disagree with your views.......I see it all around....from GLP to ATS to you guys....you embrace freedom of speech as long as it embraces your point of view. Do not lie....it is beneath you...you do not welcome and love freedom of speech....in fact....you hate it....

tell us the truth corporate boy.....for once...just tell the truth.....

to re-affrim.......It's ok...tell us the truth,

Edited by Jeremiah65

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Posted (edited)

I don't own a site but I imagine speech gets curtailed at the point where it offends enough of the other members to potentially cause fewer eyes on the site from day to day. Having loud, bombastic types who ruin the site for others who are just there for fun and edification, lets say. And I have been on a couple of sites like that - those types just suck the life out of them in short order. Anyway - my 2c :)

edit to add: I do not think of YOU as one of those types at all.

Edited by and then
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I'm no expert, but I sense that the idea of public domain/forum and private ownership/control has become fuzzy on the Internet. It seems to me that "Ownership" has as much "Control" as It can assert and exert. Even the experiment in informational democracy known as 'Wikipedia' has monitors, minders and menders according to set rules.

I, too, yearn for a society of greater freedom, not less; the portents aren't good for this possibility.

Good luck with your work at self-expression.

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It was a point...nothing less.

I was not trying to cram my personal world view down the throats of others...in fact, i made that extremely clear....it was an opinion.

I do not think it is ok for media to decide what is acceptable and what is not.

The issue was homosexuality....my position was......I do not care what consenting adults do....and I find it small minded for those that do. I do not care what two or more consenting adults do behind closed doors....it is not my concern. I was educated.....by rage.....that many do not agree with my point of view.

I was rather disappointed at the test results....I thought we had risen above the interference in another persons life...guess not.

Anywho....I got banned.....not that I was any more offensive there than I have ever been here....I know...i can be irritating....but that is all part of it......sorry, my experiments into freedom of expression has shown anything but that....most people are iron clad hypocrites.....sorry...sad but true.

In all honesty, I am not a card carrying fan of one lifestyle or another....I was more concerned with people's freedom to express.....and I went to school.....folks are not nearly as accepting and forgiving as they want you to think they are.

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Posted (edited)

Who ever owns the site can boot or admit anybody they want and control what they say. It is their site.

Edited by Darkwind
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Freedom of speech is really a concept, your'll find in reality you have freedom of speech until somehow someone finds a way to shut you up if they don't like what your saying, if your obviously spreading lies or instigating violence etc etc then yep you should be told to zip it, but mostly your called racist, that seems to be the universal 'shutter upper' these days.

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Freedom of speech is really a concept, your'll find in reality you have freedom of speech until somehow someone finds a way to shut you up if they don't like what your saying, if your obviously spreading lies or instigating violence etc etc then yep you should be told to zip it, but mostly your called racist, that seems to be the universal 'shutter upper' these days.

Yep...that term has become a bludgeon to be used on almost anyone for scant reason at all, other than to express disagreement and suppress them. Perfect example is the outrageous treatment of Paula Dean (I do not mean to hijack) She is being monetarily penalized, severely, for something she uttered 3 DECADES ago. PC out of control much? I hope she stiffens her spine and uses some cash to hire O'Mara :)
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Yep...that term has become a bludgeon to be used on almost anyone for scant reason at all, other than to express disagreement and suppress them. Perfect example is the outrageous treatment of Paula Dean (I do not mean to hijack) She is being monetarily penalized, severely, for something she uttered 3 DECADES ago. PC out of control much? I hope she stiffens her spine and uses some cash to hire O'Mara :)

I see on other forums and social media that the impact some hope to make by using the term actually fails, as most people are becoming aware of this..and usually jump all over it,

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Think of it like running a business. You want it to portray a certain image or you can just act like a tyrant because you can just block and ban anyone you want. I think people think of websites as public domain. Remember though, there is always a place online somewhere that will hear you out.

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Ok...I am clueless on this....where does the freedom of speech collide with the ownership of a site?

I am currently fighting it out on another site for the freedom to express....even when the owners disagree.

I get it...they "own" the site...so...does that make it ok to suppress conversation? Is suppression and oppression suddenly ok?

C'mon site owners....spill your guts......tell us the truth. You are ok with "freedom of expression" as long as it does not disagree with your views.......I see it all around....from GLP to ATS to you guys....you embrace freedom of speech as long as it embraces your point of view. Do not lie....it is beneath you...you do not welcome and love freedom of speech....in fact....you hate it....

tell us the truth corporate boy.....for once...just tell the truth.....

to re-affrim.......It's ok...tell us the truth,

Welcome, to the desert, of the real.

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Freedom of speach ends more or less when you open a site any site. To find out what you did and shouldn't have, you need to read the rules for that site. But, I think the mods have final say, since they can block you from the site.

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I'm no expert, but I sense that the idea of public domain/forum and private ownership/control has become fuzzy on the Internet. It seems to me that "Ownership" has as much "Control" as It can assert and exert. Even the experiment in informational democracy known as 'Wikipedia' has monitors, minders and menders according to set rules.

I, too, yearn for a society of greater freedom, not less; the portents aren't good for this possibility.

Good luck with your work at self-expression.

The usa is the country of freedom. Although we are selling that freedom for more security. Soon we will niether.

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Websites like this are privately owned enterprises. They aren't "public". You are a guest here and are allowed stay only as long as the administrator/owner allows it. For the most part, if no one is being disruptive, then no one is thrown out (it's not good business), but in order to maintain the standards of a forum like this sometimes banning someone is the only option. Freedom of speech doesn't exist in a private domain. Imagine you are a guest in my house, I have my children here and you start swearing your head off. I ask you kindly to stop, I don't want my child hearing that. You ignore it and continue to swear - I am well within my Rights to ask you to leave. Cry "freedom of speech" all you like, it doesn't mean you have a Right to be in my house. Once your outside on the public road, you can say and do whatever you want, freedom of speech exists there. But as long as you are in this proverbial house known affectionately as UM, you abide by the rules (which you agreed to abide by when you signed up your account here - you ticked a box which said you have read the rules and agree to abide by them).

You should be thankful that this site has moderating standards. I've been on unmoderated forums where free speech is allegedly upheld. A legitimate, interesting topic was started, I was reading the responses. Four responses into the thread, and a member posted a one-sentence reply to the topic: "show us your tits". From there, the thread devolved even further, when a person linked to internet porn saying "did someone say tits"? Swearing, insults and more porn links followed. Is that what you want UM to be like? I certainly don't. I like it here as it is.

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IMO it's like being in someone's house.

You've every right to say what you want, but the owner of the house has every right to boot you to the curb in they're offended by what you've said.

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IMO it's like being in someone's house.

You've every right to say what you want, but the owner of the house has every right to boot you to the curb in they're offended by what you've said.

Agreed, as long as there is no use of force.. of course.

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Once your outside on the public road, you can say and do whatever you want, freedom of speech exists there.

That's not really true. Swearing in public will get you fined. People need to remember that freedom of speech does not mean you get to say whatever you want without the consequences.

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People have said that "it's like being in someone's house", "it's like being a guest", but is it? If it was a person's private Blog, then it might be, but surely a Forum is like a business whose aim should be to attract as many customers as possible. It's not like the owners' private house, or if it is like that it's a very badly run forum and not how a forum should be. There was a Forum I used to be on that got like that, the Owner stamped all over it and, with his tame lackey Moderators, just instantly by kneejerk response banned anyone who contravened the slightest of the inordinate amount of silly Rules, or who disagreed with his increasingly paranoid theory that there was a great army of sleeper Troll agents, who had been planted under the guise of respectable members, but were just waiting for their moment to rise up and cause mayhem, because his Forum was so influential that there were many that would have loved to see it destroyed.

Last time I thought I might have a look at it, it said "You need to be regsistered before you can see it", so it looks as though his paranoia has got to the stage where he doesn't want to attract new customers.

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were it a public forum, I-d agree.

it's not, this place is a private forum with an enforced code of conduct.

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That's not really true. Swearing in public will get you fined. People need to remember that freedom of speech does not mean you get to say whatever you want without the consequences.

Yelling, screaming, carrying on trying to incite a crowd into a panic or violence can be being a public nuisance and might get you in trouble but you can stand outside and talk and swear out anything you like. Generally swearing in public will not get you fined. You have confused reality with Demolition Man.

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Yelling, screaming, carrying on trying to incite a crowd into a panic or violence can be being a public nuisance and might get you in trouble but you can stand outside and talk and swear out anything you like. Generally swearing in public will not get you fined. You have confused reality with Demolition Man.

Not quite. In nine States it is against the law to swear publicly or by phone (i.e. West Virginia). In three states that can get you arrested. Besides that there must be over 100 city ordinances making swearing illegal.

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That's not really true. Swearing in public will get you fined. People need to remember that freedom of speech does not mean you get to say whatever you want without the consequences.

thats only if you are shouting or screaming etc

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That's not really true. Swearing in public will get you fined. People need to remember that freedom of speech does not mean you get to say whatever you want without the consequences.

thats only if you are shouting or screaming etc

What if you have Tourette's?

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Ok...I am clueless on this....where does the freedom of speech collide with the ownership of a site?

I am currently fighting it out on another site for the freedom to express....even when the owners disagree.

I get it...they "own" the site...so...does that make it ok to suppress conversation? Is suppression and oppression suddenly ok?

C'mon site owners....spill your guts......tell us the truth. You are ok with "freedom of expression" as long as it does not disagree with your views.......I see it all around....from GLP to ATS to you guys....you embrace freedom of speech as long as it embraces your point of view. Do not lie....it is beneath you...you do not welcome and love freedom of speech....in fact....you hate it....

tell us the truth corporate boy.....for once...just tell the truth.....

to re-affrim.......It's ok...tell us the truth,

I can agree with what you are saying..There are times when I felt like saying how I truly felt on certain matters, but I know I cant, so I have to find a way to re-word it without breaking any rule..... Freedom of speech is limited if you are on any site that has it's own rules to guide others...

However, we have to look at this on the other side of the fence ( there's always two sides )

If you own your own home, and you have your own rules, part of your rule says - No swearing or mouthing abuse at others.. You have good reason to make that a rule, because you do not want any ill feeling or chaos in your home - Your home, your rule...

I reckon that is why sites like UM and so forth, set up rules and guide lines to follow... IF this site ( for example ) allowed us all to say how we felt, the forum would be a war zone... There wouldn't be any mods.. It would be a nightmare to post on UM if they allowed everyone to say how they truly felt... I have felt like telling some yappy git to shut his cake hole many times, but I understand that once I do, a fight will break out, and people would be put off posting on a forum that allowed all this crazy chaos to happen.

Conclusion is - Just like in your home, web sites are the same.( if they both have rules ) .. There is no such thing as freedom of speech....

.

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Posted (edited)

There was a Forum I used to be on that got like that, the Owner stamped all over it and, with his tame lackey Moderators, just instantly by kneejerk response banned anyone who contravened the slightest of the inordinate amount of silly Rules, or who disagreed with his increasingly paranoid theory that there was a great army of sleeper

A good few years ago, I was on a sports forum.. It was a nightmare... The owner of the forum was called Amanda or Mandy, I can't recall, but, she spouted verbal abuse at anyone there ..

She once posted up a list of her mods and one by one, she broadcast for all to see, which mods were loosing their mod spots.. She chewed them out for not locking topics, and she called them some harsh disgusting names..

She even went into peoples profiles and under their avatars, she posted up foul names, that I would not repeat . Yet, she had her very own team of boot lickers All praising er every insult, all kissing up, hoping she will allow them to mod...It was sickening..... I thought this stupid cow was mental.. I left after seeing her do that...

Edited by Beckys_Mom
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Posted (edited)

Freedom of Speech was originally intended to allow people to express ideas and opinions, particularly those that are not "popular", without the fear of being imprisoned or attacked. It was not meant to infer that people could be crude, crass, vulgar, hateful and vile just because their lizard brains felt like it.

There will be rules wherever you go, without them there is always anarchy and chaos.

I agree that to have rules that stifle meaningful conversation just because someone doesn't like your views is not conducive to anything but in general having rules that help keep debates and conversations civil and diplomatic are what makes society and civilization in general more tolerable.

I agree that people these days have become so sensitive that many cannot or at least refuse to develop a backbone that lets them weather unpleasant ideas but if one is so sensitive that they cannot handle a view that doesn't dovetail with theirs then the problem doesn't lie with everyone else, it lies with the person themselves.

As a sidenote I was on a forum, years ago, where there were obvious favorites. Those who were the favorites got away with name-calling, swearing and basically ripping others to shreds while others would be threatened with banning because they used a mild "cuss" word.

Another site threatened to ban people if they didn't answer questions about their personal lives, claiming that if a mod especially asked then the other HAD to answer or be banned.

Sometimes you get in contact with mods who are either young or arrogant or both (not saying all mods who are young are like that) and they let their "power" get to their heads and they become abusive ****s.

Edited by Ryu
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