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Genetic 'Adam' and 'Eve' Uncovered


Big Bad Voodoo

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I love it when two people who know their information so well get into a debate with each other. Anyone else want some popcorn?

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Me too Shadowsot. Cormac and Sepul are among persons I admire. Problem is that I have problem following them in this debate. But judging on others threads I can trust on their conclusions.

cormac have penetrating posts. Sepul is realy and Im mean realy patient in explaining physics to rest of us mortals like me, who has problem with it. And no thanks Shadowsot I have my cookies.

Edited by the L
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Thanks for the sentiment ShadowSot and the L.

I think cormac won this debate; I pretty much agree with his position now.

An informative debate - on the internet no less - without any name calling, that was definitively concluded before Godwin's rule could come into effect!

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Thanks for the sentiment ShadowSot and the L.

I think cormac won this debate; I pretty much agree with his position now.

An informative debate - on the internet no less - without any name calling, that was definitively concluded before Godwin's rule could come into effect!

No sepulchrave I'd say you won this debate because you learned something. :tu:

cormac

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Thanks for the sentiment ShadowSot and the L.

I think cormac won this debate; I pretty much agree with his position now.

An informative debate - on the internet no less - without any name calling, that was definitively concluded before Godwin's rule could come into effect!

You know who else won debates? Hitler.

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You know who else won debates? Hitler.

I'm many things, but Der Fuhrer is not one of them. :lol:

cormac

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I agree, instead of pursuing silly assumptions they should fix the current problems.

Oh, by the way, I like your Icon Painting, come and join FineArtsAmerica.com

thanks. The painting is one of my own on canvas in acrylic, one of two in a set.

But to the point it is nice to know our origins, but our present situations on this planet is what we should concentrate on or there won't be a future for us to speculate and hope for let alone worry about a past genetic origins.

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thanks. The painting is one of my own on canvas in acrylic, one of two in a set.

But to the point it is nice to know our origins, but our present situations on this planet is what we should concentrate on or there won't be a future for us to speculate and hope for let alone worry about a past genetic origins.

Hi again,

You said, "The painting is one of my own on canvas in acrylic', that sounds great, and I'm sure you would like FAA.

All you would have to do is up-load your

paintings, they do all the rest. Check it out on my website (which they also provide for free):

hartmut-jager.artistwebsites.com

Cheerio, Hartmut :-)

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In accepting this idea of evolution, there is no such thing as speice, our DNA is of everything of the earth.But what I was wondering as humans, did we come from one line of a hommid or from many lines of hommids.Was it a male and female from one line or from many lines.

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In accepting this idea of evolution, there is no such thing as speice, our DNA is of everything of the earth.But what I was wondering as humans, did we come from one line of a hommid or from many lines of hommids.Was it a male and female from one line or from many lines.

I'm not entirely sure I understand your question. If you mean are modern humans descended from multiple different hominids, then yes. By examining our genome we've found traces of where different lines hominids reentered the gene pool at points in the past, the most famous being Neanderthals.

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I done it for medical purpose. But how would they trace your family? Im mean they have that big data?

They do it by mitochondrial DNA. You do not need a big database for that. It only traces to ancestry and region.

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Actually it does since any "other" genetic lines are not evidenced as being shared by any modern lines. And all modern paternal lines are descended from Y Chromosome Adam, just as all maternal lines are descended from Mitochondrial Eve. That's what "most recent common ancestor" means.

cormac

I thought in the article they said that some african males traced to an older y chromosome ancestor.

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I thought in the article they said that some african males traced to an older y chromosome ancestor.

A00 is the line you're referring to which effectively pushes back the date for Y Chromosome Adam. It's doesn't negate the fact that Y Chromosome Adam is the one from whom all modern paternal haplogroups descend.

cormac

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I'm not entirely sure I understand your question. If you mean are modern humans descended from multiple different hominids, then yes. By examining our genome we've found traces of where different lines hominids reentered the gene pool at points in the past, the most famous being Neanderthals.

I think I understand;) so in tracing the DNA back to the 135,000 years, Adam may have come from one line of hommids and Eve from another.

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I think I understand;) so in tracing the DNA back to the 135,000 years, Adam may have come from one line of hommids and Eve from another.

No, both are modern homo sapiens.

But in our genetic history, some of the different hominid lines got back into the gene pool for a short time. But that's a separate thing from the ada and eve talked about here.

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I think I understand;) so in tracing the DNA back to the 135,000 years, Adam may have come from one line of hommids and Eve from another.

No, Y Chromosome Adam and Mitochondrial Eve were both Anatomically Modern Humans (Homo sapiens - Us). It just means that of the various paternal lines existing at the time of "Adam" that his line was the only line to continue to modern times, just like "Eve's" maternal line was the only line to continue to modern times. Neither one lived at the same time nor the same place as the other.

cormac

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Assuming I understand what cormac is saying; I think it can be paraphrased like this:

Every man alive today is the ``son of a son of a son of a son of a son...'' going all the way back to Y Chromosome Adam.

Every woman alive today is the ``daughter of a daughter of a daughter of a daughter...'' going all the way back to Mitochondrial Eve.

Of course men are also the ``sons of a daughter of a son of a son...'' and the ``son of a daughter of a daughter of a son...'' (and other permutations), while women are also the ``daughter of a son of a daughter of a son...'' (etc.), but these parts of the family tree cannot be traced by analysis of existing DNA (you would also need the DNA from every previous generation to figure out where everyone came from).

Because the mitochondrial DNA in women is guaranteed to come from a single source (the maternal lineage), and the Y chromosome in men is likewise guaranteed to come from a single source (the paternal lineage), these can be traced back in time just by looking at the DNA of living people.

Y chromosome Adam and Mitochondrial Eve are just the most recent common point in everyone's family tree.

Everyone would have had many other ancestors from these time periods, but we can't trace these since there is no clear genetic history - and therefore we can't tell how common those ancestors were.

As an extreme example; Y chromosome Adam could have fathered children with 20 different women, and Mitochondrial Eve could have mothered children with 20 different men.

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Assuming I understand what cormac is saying; I think it can be paraphrased like this:

Every man alive today is the ``son of a son of a son of a son of a son...'' going all the way back to Y Chromosome Adam.

Every woman alive today is the ``daughter of a daughter of a daughter of a daughter...'' going all the way back to Mitochondrial Eve.

Of course men are also the ``sons of a daughter of a son of a son...'' and the ``son of a daughter of a daughter of a son...'' (and other permutations), while women are also the ``daughter of a son of a daughter of a son...'' (etc.), but these parts of the family tree cannot be traced by analysis of existing DNA (you would also need the DNA from every previous generation to figure out where everyone came from).

Because the mitochondrial DNA in women is guaranteed to come from a single source (the maternal lineage), and the Y chromosome in men is likewise guaranteed to come from a single source (the paternal lineage), these can be traced back in time just by looking at the DNA of living people.

Y chromosome Adam and Mitochondrial Eve are just the most recent common point in everyone's family tree.

Everyone would have had many other ancestors from these time periods, but we can't trace these since there is no clear genetic history - and therefore we can't tell how common those ancestors were.

As an extreme example; Y chromosome Adam could have fathered children with 20 different women, and Mitochondrial Eve could have mothered children with 20 different men.

Let's take your sentences line by line and maybe that will help docyabut2:

1) Correct

2) Correct

3) Correct

4) While I would steer away from using the word "guarantee" the above is essentially correct.

5) Y Chromosome Adam and Mitochondrial Eve are the most recent common ancestor for us as a species (Homo sapiens). However the term can and is also applied at various other points as well. Using an example I belong to Mitochondrial haplogroup K and am more specifically K1a + 195. Otzi the Iceman, found in the Alps in 1991, belongs to K1ö (a designation made specifically for him as he falls under no other K1 subgroup). Since both of us descend from the parent group "K" then "K" is considered our most recent common ancestor genetically speaking.

6) This only applies to ones Autosomal DNA lineage as the other two are already ruled out.

7) Y Chromosome Adams paternal lineage, even with so many possible women, would have carried on as long as it continued to have male heirs. His maternal lineage would have gone extinct with him. The opposite is true of Mitochondrial Eve, her maternal lineage would have carried on as long as it continued to have female heirs, but her paternal lineage would have gone extinct with her. As to the respective "significant others" of genetic Adam and Eve, if their maternal or paternal lineages did not descend from the opposite line (whether Y Chromosome Adams or Mitochondrial Eve's) then they would appear to have gone extinct since they do not currently appear in the genetic record.

cormac

Edited by cormac mac airt
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Let's take your sentences line by line and maybe that will help docyabut2:

1) Correct

2) Correct

3) Correct

4) While I would steer away from using the word "guarantee" the above is essentially correct.

5) Y Chromosome Adam and Mitochondrial Eve are the most recent common ancestor for us as a species (Homo sapiens). However the term can and is also applied at various other points as well. Using an example I belong to Mitochondrial haplogroup K and am more specifically K1a + 195. Otzi the Iceman, found in the Alps in 1991, belongs to K1ö (a designation made specifically for him as he falls under no other K1 subgroup). Since both of us descend from the parent group "K" then "K" is considered our most recent common ancestor genetically speaking.

6) This only applies to ones Autosomal DNA lineage as the other two are already ruled out.

7) Y Chromosome Adams paternal lineage, even with so many possible women, would have carried on as long as it continued to have male heirs. His maternal lineage would have gone extinct with him. The opposite is true of Mitochondrial Eve, her maternal lineage would have carried on as long as it continued to have female heirs, but her paternal lineage would have gone extinct with her. As to the respective "significant others" of genetic Adam and Eve, if their maternal or paternal lineages did not descend from the opposite line (whether Y Chromosome Adams or Mitochondrial Eve's) then they would appear to have gone extinct since they do not currently appear in the genetic record.

cormac

Totally confused :) what I`m trying to understand in the evolution process, where did the male and female ( Adam and Eve) of the frist homo sapians come from? Was it of one line of a hommid or of many.

Edited by docyabut2
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For instance the Jave man live about 2,000,000 to 500,000 years ago, the Neanderthal about 70,000 to 40,000 years ago, Cro magnon 300,000 to 2,500 years ago .So did all homo sapians come from the Jave man?

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docyabut2:

Totally confused.

Apparently.

where did the male and female ( Adam and Eve) of the first homo sapians come from? Was it of one line of a hommid or of many.

Anatomically, Homo sapiens sapiens (Us) descend from Homo sapiens idaltu, who in turn descends from Homo sapiens which split off at about the same time as Homo neandertalensis from Homo heidelbergensis who descends from Homo erectus who descends from the Australopithicines. So descent was from a singular (one) line.

For instance the Jave man live about 2,000,000 to 500,000 years ago, the Neanderthal about 70,000 to 40,000 years ago, Cro magnon 300,000 to 2,500 years ago. So did all homo sapians come from the Jave man?

You've really got a mish-mash of names and timelines here, no wonder you're confused. Java Man is another name for Homo erectus. Neanderthals did NOT live from 70,000 to 40,000 BP, but from c.500,000 BP - 40,000 BP. Cro-magnon is a defunct name for us and obviously we're still here. And as can be seen from my prior post above then no, Homo sapiens did not come from Homo erectus (Java Man), at least not directly.

cormac

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docyabut2:

Apparently.

Anatomically, Homo sapiens sapiens (Us) descend from Homo sapiens idaltu, who in turn descends from Homo sapiens which split off at about the same time as Homo neandertalensis from Homo heidelbergensis who descends from Homo erectus who descends from the Australopithicines. So descent was from a singular (one) line.

You've really got a mish-mash of names and timelines here, no wonder you're confused. Java Man is another name for Homo erectus. Neanderthals did NOT live from 70,000 to 40,000 BP, but from c.500,000 BP - 40,000 BP. Cro-magnon is a defunct name for us and obviously we're still here. And as can be seen from my prior post above then no, Homo sapiens did not come from Homo erectus (Java Man), at least not directly.

cormac

So descent was from a singular (one)

Your saying we homo sapians desended from the bipedal man homo erectus, but say homo sapiens did not come from Homo erectus (Java Man), at least not directly. So where`s the line ?

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So descent was from a singular (one)

Your saying we homo sapians desended from the bipedal man homo erectus, but say homo sapiens did not come from Homo erectus (Java Man), at least not directly. So where`s the line ?

At this point I really have to wonder if you're purposely being slow on the uptake, since I already listed the above. But here it goes again, from youngest to oldest:

Homo sapiens sapiens

Homo sapiens Idaltu

Homo sapiens

Homo heidelbergensis

Homo erectus

cormac

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