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Big Bad Voodoo

44 Facts About The Death Of The Middle Class

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Do you live in America? If so, what do you think about that list?

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I dont live in USA although I love USA. What do I think of it? Nothing special, not surprised. USA savings from 80s each year onwards going low and low.

Savings effects future capital. And capital in macroeconomy is one of crucial things for ecomonic progress. So from macroeconomic view, Im not surprised.

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I'm Vietnamese and live there, but have travelled often to the US and got my graduate and post-graduate education there a long ag o.

I think "middle class" is an American frame of mind and few will admit to being anything else. The wealthy call themselves "upper middle class" and the poor "lower middle class." I think this attitude is admirable and conducive to economic harmony. Playing class in politics always causes harm.

That said, the wealthy are getting wealthier relative to everyone else. I think this is natural and all societies need to build in economic levellers without destroying initiative. Recently the trend may be increased by technology, which tends to enrich the investor over the worker and give the worker fewer alternatives.

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It's a true blue paradox isn't it? Everyone wants the ability to make and gather as much as they can...but then what we are seeing does not actually allow for that. As George Carlin once said "The tables are tilted folks, the game is rigged".

I am totally for free markets and free enterprise. I think a person should be able to sell their products...be it physical or intellectual...for whatever they choose to sell it for. If I want to do something for say...$20.00...that is my choice. if another guy comes along and says "I can do that for $19.00"...that is free markets. Now I am forced to either meet or beat gis price or wait till he is too busy and the consumer is forced to pay my rate. That is a choice.

What we have now is totally blown up and twisted. Companies get subsidies...companies get tax breaks....that their competitors don't get...so they are not a competitor for very long. This in turn reduces the number of companies competing and when it rolls down to workers...when there is only one game in town, you have to take what they are offering or completely do without.

The middle class has been thrust toward extinction because a generation of people decided they did not care about the greatness of a nation anymore...they cared about their own personal "empire". this is a fact...sorry if you don't like it. Back in the 50's and 60's...companies invested in "the greatness" of America and helped build a wonderful idea....then...in the 80's...we decided..."Eff everyone else...how much can I hoard up?"

This theoretically could be solved with altruism and genuine care about workers and neighbors...but that is NEVER going to happen.

We have totally lost the concept of society...civilization and humanity.

I am convinced we are on the countdown to extinction. The solutions require things like kindness, compassion, charity, temperance and tolerance...and all of those things are in frighteningly short supply.

I have heard about a business model that is pretty small but has some hope...the co-op corporation...where everyone owns stock and everyone basically makes the same amount of money....the profits are re-invested or equally distributed...THIS might be something to look into as the modern investor driven - stockholder owned corporations are destroying the workers and driving them into poverty.

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I live in America and I think it's not a big deal. The poorer people become, the closer they live to nature and the more they appreciate it. Where I live there is a huge increase in the number of people growing vegetable gardens and keeping chickens. There is also an increase in bartering and flea marketing. All these things reduce pollution and waste and encourage more cooperation in community life. It's time people get back to nature and realize what is important.

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I live in America and I think it's not a big deal. The poorer people become, the closer they live to nature and the more they appreciate it. Where I live there is a huge increase in the number of people growing vegetable gardens and keeping chickens. There is also an increase in bartering and flea marketing. All these things reduce pollution and waste and encourage more cooperation in community life. It's time people get back to nature and realize what is important.

That's a wonderful fantasy you have there. The problem is...most people either rent or have a mortgage. If you cannot pay for your rent or mortgage....you are put into the street...kinda hard to raise a garden or chickens when you sleep on park benches or in a tent on the edge of town.

It is a very big deal.

I am going to take a wild guess here and say you are somewhere in your early to mid twenties or younger....you still have rose colored glasses on and have not been exposed to the brutal cruelty of "the real world".

The world WILL let you suffer and die....they do not care anymore. Anytime you have an overabundance of a resource, the value of that resource is lessened and taken for granted. We have an over abundance of human capital now...the value of a life has been reduced because there is so much of it available.

All we need to do is drop the favortism that is garnered through lobbyist. Drop the regulations that inhibit competition in the market place....and let people do whatever they do best. Humans are clever, they will find a way.

I have to just let it go. Most people say they want a better world for everyone...but the truth is they only want that when they themselves don't have to change anything...this is fact.

We are on a path that is leading to destruction...there are a few turn offs left, but they are becoming more rare. We will soon cross a point of no return and IT WILL all fall apart...I invite anyone that is skeptical to look at the rise and fall of all the major civilizations throughout history and tell me you don't see parallels to the current situation that we, the USA...and the rest of the modern global empire is experiencing...

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Plus most of the poor live in cities and are as far from nature as it gets.

For the op though, you can thank big government, big taxes, big regulations, big spending. Progressives call that progress. I call it fiscal irresponsibility, a liberal trait. Liberalism is a disease, progressivism is the mad scientist injecting the disease.

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Sorry, I didn't mean to offend. I was kind of off in my own little world. I know most people live in cities and I have seen homeless people in large cities develop amazing survival skills and have a quality of life (togetherness, comradeship, etc) that I actually envied, but that's just me. And no, I'm not in my early 20's. I've lived a long full life. I started out born in the lap of luxury and have experienced everything in between. I now choose to live a minimalist life in a rural area close to nature because that is what I prefer.

I'm just a person who sees life in a different way. I'm a firm believer in re-incarnation so I see "life" not so much in the here and now but as a continual stream of experience.The Earth cannot survive if every person alive today lives like the American standard of middle class. I probably made a mistake posting in this topic since I really don't intend to spend a lot of time explaining or defending my view. Again, sorry I offended anyone, it was not my intention.

Namaste

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It may be that we will all find ourselves obliged to "go back to nature" to a certain degree, and there is no compelling argument that a simple life significantly free of modern conveniences and luxuries is any less happy or fulfilling.

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Posted (edited)

I am not saying that I don't appreciate "the old ways". I did not grow up in luxury. I grew up on a farm out in the sticks. Up at 5:00 am to feed the animals...back in, grab a bath...(no shower for this country boy)....grub down some breakfast and off to catch the school bus for an hour ride to school.

Yeah, the return to simpler life sounds all fine and wonderful...real "eco friendly"...

You do understand that literally millions if not billions will die don't you? Perhaps that is what we need....a culling...a thinning of the herd. I hear Progressive dreamers talk about how the earth can support xx billion people....no it cannot....not if you want to go all green and ecological. If you want to continue using petro products to grow and produce food...nuclear energy and the associated wastes....then maybe. But if you want to return to the lifestyle of the late 19th and early 20th century....by default the population has to return to those levels to....bye bye about 3 billion people...

But it's good to get back to nature...

ETA:

In the spirit of the 4 noble truths...the purpose of life is the extinction of suffering...the goal is to NOT be reborn again....that is the ultimate goal of enlightenment...the world you speak of brings tremendous suffering...I would prefer not to go there.

Edited by Jeremiah65
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It may be that we will all find ourselves obliged to "go back to nature" to a certain degree, and there is no compelling argument that a simple life significantly free of modern conveniences and luxuries is any less happy or fulfilling.

It is if you aren't used to it. A gradual process though, why not? We haven't really been living this way for all that long. I think it could be done again but not unless there's an apocalypse. Otherwise, this tech and stuff isn't going anywhere any time soon.

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I lived through the American War (Vietnam War) to you in Hanoi and experienced a lot of what you would call deprivation then and for quite a few years afterwards. Except for the insecurity and occasional tiresomeness of a diet of cassava, I remember the period as one of achievement and, and don't regret it at all.

I think Americans too would adopt if because of global warming or some pandemic or whatever life standards were to drop suddenly. I agree with you that such things are unlikely, and I would not argue that they are desirable, but people become strongest in adversity.

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