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Elfin

Are disabilities the result of karma?

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I've heard this so often, that disabilities are the result of bad actions in a previous life. I think it's a disgusting doctrine, and if it wasn't for this, I might actually take the idea of reincarnation seriously. Perhaps I still do, but I reject this particular notion.

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Sometimes people are just stupid and repeat bs.

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Here is what I was told or what I learned about this and I'm sure this will p*** some people off, this is not my intention BTW.

Yes, the same as be killed, raped, beaten and so on. To put it simply; What goes around, comes around in one life or the next. But the sword of karma swings both ways, you do good towards somebody and likewise good will be done unto you at some point through your lifetimes.

1. The golden rule is preached throughout the ages for a reason, it's a univerisal rule...not religious. Religions adopted it.

2. Karma is the result of how well you follow the golden rule.

3. Re-existence or reincarnation is the necessity to serve out that karma.

Therefore, all three go hand in hand.

No one gets away with anything in this world, sooner or later...it catches up with you. Good or bad. So in conclusion; You're here to learn what to do and what not to do, no matter how many lifetimes it takes you.

If that irritates people here, my apologies, I don't like it either, but the OP asked. IMO, something this controversial shouldn't be brought up in the first place. It just depresses people anyway, including me.

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Here is what I was told or what I learned about this and I'm sure this will p*** some people off, this is not my intention BTW.

Yes, the same as be killed, raped, beaten and so on. To put it simply; What goes around, comes around in one life or the next. But the sword of karma swings both ways, you do good towards somebody and likewise good will be done unto you at some point through your lifetimes.

1. The golden rule is preached throughout the ages for a reason, it's a univerisal rule...not religious. Religions adopted it.

2. Karma is the result of how well you follow the golden rule.

3. Re-existence or reincarnation is the necessity to serve out that karma.

Therefore, all three go hand in hand.

No one gets away with anything in this world, sooner or later...it catches up with you. Good or bad. So in conclusion; You're here to learn what to do and what not to do, no matter how many lifetimes it takes you.

If that irritates people here, my apologies, I don't like it either, but the OP asked. IMO, something this controversial shouldn't be brought up in the first place. It just depresses people anyway, including me.

You state it as if it were fact, but I reject it. Reincarnation may well exist, but I don't have to accept any religious baggage with it.

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Posted (edited)

Being disabled myself, I reject it too, and thanks Elfin for the kind words! :)

eta: In the Bible, Jesus' disciples asked him about a man born blind, and asked him "Did this man sin, or his parents, that he was born blind?"

Jesus answered, "Neither, but that the glory of God might be revealed in him". Imo this puts a hole in the karma theory...not saying though, that bad actions don't have bad consequences.

Edited by Gummug

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Being disabled myself, I reject it too, and thanks Elfin for the kind words! :)

Thanks, yes, that's exactly why I choose to reject it. I find it personally offensive, as if I'm somehow being punished.

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You state it as if it were fact, but I reject it. Reincarnation may well exist, but I don't have to accept any religious baggage with it.

Just passing on to you what I was told. I try not to think about it myself, because it's depressing. Again, my apologies.

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Just passing on to you what I was told. I try not to think about it myself, because it's depressing. Again, my apologies.

I don't find it depressing, except in the sense that people actually believe such stuff.

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Being disabled myself, I reject it too, and thanks Elfin for the kind words! :)

eta: In the Bible, Jesus' disciples asked him about a man born blind, and asked him "Did this man sin, or his parents, that he was born blind?"

Jesus answered, "Neither, but that the glory of God might be revealed in him". Imo this puts a hole in the karma theory...not saying though, that bad actions don't have bad consequences.

I was temporarily disabled for a time, myself - twice, come to think of it. Once I broke my back in three places. But that's nothing compared to what you're probably going through now, Gummug. You have my sympathy and again, my apologies.

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There are a multitude of beliefs and attitudes about what karma or reincarnation means. There is a belief that people choose a difficult life/incarnation including a disability or intense suffering in order to learn something. For a person who does not think of this one incarnation or earthly/physical life as all there is to their existence, this is believable.

Someone once asked me, "why would someone choose to participate in a violent, miserable life?". Well, why would someone choose to watch a violent, miserable movie?

To a person who believes that this incarnation is a temporary experience in a multitude of experiences there is not much difference.

Not saying I do or do not agree with this belief, just trying to give a different perspective.

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I would suggest reading the Tibetan Book of the dead as a start....I highly recommend a text called "The word of Buddha" that explains the 4 noble truths and the eight fold path. I have it as a text document but it would take multiple posts to put it here.

here is a link. You can download it and save it to read at your leisure.

http://acc6.its.brooklyn.cuny.edu/~phalsall/texts/bud-word.txt

The objective of life is the extinction of suffering. Buddhism is all about compassion and kindness. It teaches that to be born again is to continue the cycle of suffering. The pinnacle goal of enlightenment is TO NOT be born again. I know many people do not know this but did you know that up until the 6th century, many Christians believed and embraced the idea of reincarnation...

http://www.near-death.com/origen.html

It is said that we "choose" the life we are going to be born into...that the lessons we need to learn are known to us and we pick a path to experience those things. I am not sure I agree with that, but it is something to ponder in prayer and meditation. Seek the knowledge in humility and it will be revealed to you.

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I would suggest reading the Tibetan Book of the dead as a start....I highly recommend a text called "The word of Buddha" that explains the 4 noble truths and the eight fold path. I have it as a text document but it would take multiple posts to put it here.

here is a link. You can download it and save it to read at your leisure.

http://acc6.its.broo...ts/bud-word.txt

The objective of life is the extinction of suffering. Buddhism is all about compassion and kindness. It teaches that to be born again is to continue the cycle of suffering. The pinnacle goal of enlightenment is TO NOT be born again. I know many people do not know this but did you know that up until the 6th century, many Christians believed and embraced the idea of reincarnation...

http://www.near-death.com/origen.html

It is said that we "choose" the life we are going to be born into...that the lessons we need to learn are known to us and we pick a path to experience those things. I am not sure I agree with that, but it is something to ponder in prayer and meditation. Seek the knowledge in humility and it will be revealed to you.

This is the sort of religious doctrine that inhibits understanding. I don't think that reincarnation is a bad thing, or that life is just suffering.

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I don't believe in that past life thing because say you were a serial killer and over the course of several years you were killing people, eventually you were caught and sentenced to death. Now say a kid is born and your trying to tell me that kid is going through hell because of what a serial killer did in the past. How would that work, would the kid even know about the past life. I just don't see it

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I am disabled, born with a birth defect and permanently in a wheelchair by the 4th grade. The question of Karma depends on how you ask the question, as to if its punishment or a gift. The reasons for this are many, in my case I believe wholeheartedly that I asked to be disabled in this lifetime. One reason being that had I not my life would have been terrible. I lost my Dad while I was a baby and my Mom when I was 15. If I weren't in a wheelchair I would have run away after my Mom died and ended up who knows where doing who knows what. The other reason is every kid in my family raised with me is great around other disabled people. They grew up with me and never had any prejudice toward people who were differently abled. One of my cousins wen onto become a CNA because she wanted to help people and was comfortable around disabled people. I think you have to look at the Karma of disabled people as being ripples on a pond and their interactions with others helps others. There is and can be a positivity attached to the belief in karma associated with a disabled person.

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I will not argue with you. Life is pain...it is a noble truth.

Buddhism is not a "religious" doctrine....it is a philosophy...big difference....it is a way of living.

I am...for the most part...well grounded in Christianity....however...I chose to explore the ocean of beliefs and philosophies in search of the ultimate truths. Within all of them...Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, Daoism...etc....is a fragment of truth. Think of this mystery....at the fall of the Tower of Babel....not only was language confounded...so was the truth. As each new language went off to establish itself, it took a piece of the truth. Only when you can open your mind and comprehend this can you move on....

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I will not argue with you. Life is pain...it is a noble truth.

Buddhism is not a "religious" doctrine....it is a philosophy...big difference....it is a way of living.

I am...for the most part...well grounded in Christianity....however...I chose to explore the ocean of beliefs and philosophies in search of the ultimate truths. Within all of them...Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, Daoism...etc....is a fragment of truth. Think of this mystery....at the fall of the Tower of Babel....not only was language confounded...so was the truth. As each new language went off to establish itself, it took a piece of the truth. Only when you can open your mind and comprehend this can you move on....

The Tower of Babel is just a myth. I find Buddhism to be a very negative religion. Life is not suffering.

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I know a part of astrologers seem to advocate karmic believes too, some say certain hard placements are because of badly-lived past lives. But I dont sign that belief really, because we dont tend to remember our past lives, or we dont know we remember at least. A big question in this all is for me, if we choose our next lives or not. Because it's obvious to me there's choise in what kind of a life you'll be living. How the life is "colored", is preordained, but you can still make your choises. And it's not that our life is colored, but we are and through there our lives, an indirect link.

This all... it's an open question to me whether we can choose what kind of color palette we'll have on our life or whether it's something someone else preordains for us (be it parents or a higher entity). It could still be an open question even if I believed in karma as a phenomena that happens, because I can think of potential explanations for both. One, for whatever reasons we might want to be born disabled or with difficult characteristics. I dont believe in seeing being raped and murdered through a chart because that's more a matter of life-choises and what kind of environment you're born into, but disability from birth might be detectable through chart, rapes and murders would be more conjencture decutions which are unreliable because more choises we make are involved). Who knows if after living a life of indulgence and health and maybe an uncompassionate and hectic life, you'd long for something else. Or that you'd want to put yourself through hardships in order to strengthen yourself and learn more of life.

As for suffering, you can enjoy different kinds of pains and hardships and challenges. There are many sides to a lot of things, and I've found it to be a matter of taste and what's your moment's whim. Arnold Schwarzenegger for example said he likes spending so much time on the gym because it's like having multiple orgasms because of the endorphine release. If you look at him smiling like that, it's not hard to see. And then there's at least some people who take pleasure in being an underdog who rises up and in leading an asketic lifestyle. Those things just have different sets of pains and pleasures. Some people like chili, some mild foods, and some both, what's wrong with that? :)

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If you drive recklessly and end up with permanent injuries, this is karmic. It is cause and effect, complicated by the fact that lots of other factors are also always at work.

That life is definable as suffering is basic to the concept of natural selection Animals must constantly be alert and fearful, die painfully, must respond to powerful instincts and must regularly find food and water, and incur all sorts of other unpleasant experiences is just realism.

Yes there are pleasures in life; the idea is to learn how to enhance and appreciate them and finding ways to avoid the suffering, in full recognition that one will never be fully successful.

Given the Proto-Hindu-Buddhist Indian belief in rebirth, conceived as an infinite walk with no end of this suffering naturally leads to a search for ways to get out of the cycle. This is the foundation of Buddhist ideas but need not be taken entirely in order to see the reality and wisdom of the Buddhist approach.

Now the question is can we say that a child born with a serious defect was guilty in a previous life of considerable evil, with the defect proving it. Unfortunately a lot of people think this way. What they forget is that the child is not the evil person who died but a new person with his or her own genes and life experiences and is therefore innocent. That it may be (and all this is assuming the reality of rebirth, something I doubt) that the world as it functions can end up being unfair this way is just to admit reality -- the kid is getting a raw deal regardless of whether it is because of a previous life or not.

Buddhists tend to be especially generous to those with deformities, however caused, because that is the clear Buddhist teaching on the matter.

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Posted (edited)

The Tower of Babel is just a myth. I find Buddhism to be a very negative religion. Life is not suffering.

it is a metaphor...not a myth. Buddhism is negative?....My mind is struggling to comprehend how kindness and compassion are negative things....

I said this just a moment ago and I will repeat it....I am not going to argue with you. You are a free spirit...you are free to chase whatever rainbows you wish...however....Life IS pain. Perhaps you have a wonderfully sheltered life and have not bore witness to the overwhelming pain and suffering that is happening all around you...all over this world. That is fine I guess. I SEE the pain and by whatever mechanisms that are out there that I do not understand...I FEEL that pain....and I loathe it. I find it difficult to go into large crowds of people because I can feel the pain and I dislike it very much. I am a paradox of unusual thought and intent.

You, by all means, are free to interpret this world as you see fit....I have my interpretation.

Best of luck....you will not veer me from what I see as a truth and apparently I am not going to open your eyes....the paradox of pain and pleasure continues....

ETA:

When you can come back and offer some proof that you have actually read "the word of Buddha"....then I will have a conversation with you....

How about the Bhagavad-gita? How about the Tao de jing? Have you read those? You strike me as ignorance on wheels...a person that chooses not to research and learn....there is much out there....the more you read, the more you know and the more you understand....choosing to ignore is not intelligent and is not wise.

Edited by Jeremiah65
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I was temporarily disabled for a time, myself - twice, come to think of it. Once I broke my back in three places. But that's nothing compared to what you're probably going through now, Gummug. You have my sympathy and again, my apologies.

No problem, I didn't take offense at all. I thought you were just doing what I do myself quite a bit: Thinking out loud, kinda, or offering a different perspective.

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Posted (edited)

A lot depend on whether you are talking about Buddhism or Hinduism.

Buddhism is focused more on this life and what you do in here and now.

http://buddhism.abou.../g/karmadef.htm

Karma means "intentional action" and refers to the universal law of cause and effect. Karma is created not only by physical action but also by thoughts and words.

Just as action causes reaction, karma causes effects that come back to the original actor. Karma also tends to generate more karma that reaches out in all directions. We bear the consequences of the karma we create, but everyone around us is affected by our intentional acts as well, just as we are affected by theirs.

Buddhists do not think of karma as "destiny" or as some kind of cosmic retribution system. Although the fruits of "good" karma might be pleasant and beneficial, all karma keeps one entangled in the cycle of death and rebirth.

Actions free from desire, hate and delusion do not create karma. The enlightened being ceases to create karma and thus is liberated from rebirth.

Hinduism bad actions of Karma gets a boot down to lower life, But some people come back to a difficult life to learn not because a wrong doing.

http://hinduism.abou...ics/a/karma.htm

Every person is responsible for his or her acts and thoughts, so each person's karma is entirely his or her own. Occidentals see the operation of karma as fatalistic. But that is far from true since it is in the hands of an individual to shape his own future by schooling his present.

Hindu philosophy, which believes in life after death, holds the doctrine that if the karma of an individual is good enough, the next birth will be rewarding, and if not, the person may actually devolve and degenerate into a lower life form. In order to achieve good karma it is important to live life according to dharma or what is right.

I kind of like how the old Egyptians explained people who were disabled. Their God was drunk that day. They treated their disabled rather well because they figured the God felt bad about it.

Edited by GreenmansGod
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Karma does not exist, do you really think justice just happens? People make justice happen with determined minds and hands. Justice itself is a human concept, nature doesn't care that lions eat impala. We came up with this thing and only we can decide to set things right if we see them set wrong. But be warned you will be hated if you do.

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Buddhism is not a "religious" doctrine....it is a philosophy...big difference....it is a way of living.

You are one of the very few people who actually understands that..

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It's a retro effect from trying to create a punishment for wrongs done in this life. If doing wrong in this life affects you in the next then the suffering you experience in this one is a result of your previous life.

I believe reincarnation is much more complicated than that.

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Posted (edited)

I cant accept "Karma points gathering game" as true. In fact it reminds me on Sonic.

sonic_the_hedgehog_3.gif

I wonder whats my score? :w00t:

You are one of the very few people who actually understands that..

Except that he is among huge mass of people who actually dont understand that. Its Tibet and Burma propaganda. If Buddha was alive in todays Europe he would most likely been in mental institution. Because when person today claim he was Napoleon in previous life he is sent in hospital on recovery. Atleast where Im from.

Edited by the L
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