Are disabilities the result of karma?

[Frank Merton]

Dont blame him too much. In the end he was married when he was 16 years old.... And did you ever watch Everybody loves Raymond?

I think Buddha didnt have a good time.

I think that was about as underhanded as it gets.

[Jeremiah65]

L....where are you from? Your use of the English language is unique. Just a point of curiosity.

I also said I was not going to argue in this thread and I am not going to. Let him who has eyes see....

Each "religion" or philosophy of the world, throughout history...has a bit of truth within it. The best advice I have is to open your mind and actively seek knowledge. It's out there for those that look.

The OP was about disabilities and Karma....it totally depends what point of view you "choose" to take. If you choose to believe in re-birth and reincarnation, then which path do you believe in? Hinduism says that if you do "bad things" in this life, you will have a rather crappy "next life". Buddhism says that you choose your next life for the lessons to be learned through living it.

I do not necessarily believe in the Hinduistic cycle....I believe that if such a thing as Karma exists, it happens in the now. If you steal $20.00 from someone....then you drive down the road and get a flat tire that costs you $100.00 to deal with....that is "karma"...I prefer the old saying that reflects "karma" in a way "What goes around comes around." You screw someone over....you shall in due time...be screwed....

Edited August 3, 2013 by Jeremiah65

[Grandpa Greenman]

It is repellant because its aim is to turn people into emotionless automata.

That is not the goal at all. This really shows you don't understand the philosophy. I was watching the PBS program on the Buddha and in the Dali Lama says Buddhist can feel sad and cry, but but the goal is to have happiness in your inner core. If you look at the Dali Lama writings he talk a lot about happiness and finding in your life. He is not talking about becoming emotionless at all. The goal is to find happiness through love, compassion, balance and understanding. The last time I looked happiness was an emotion.

I couldn't find his quote but here is the show and if you take the time to watch it you will find.

http://www.pbs.org/thebuddha/

This is a good talk, too.

[markdohle]

I don't find it depressing, except in the sense that people actually believe such stuff.

Someone smokes and gets cancer, or drinks and gets disabled in a car accident, beats his wife and goes to prison, I guess that is karma. If Karma exist, it would be impersonal, it is not punishment, just bringing balance perhaps. I don't believe in it, but if it is true, then what you do in this life, will blance out in the next or the next or the next or the next ;-).

Edited August 3, 2013 by markdohle

[Beckys_Mom]

I prefer the old saying that reflects "karma" in a way "What goes around comes around." You screw someone over....you shall in due time...be screwed....

I always see things like that happening.. If Buddhism was never around, I would still see those things, as would many others..

What goes around certainly does come around, and sometimes stronger than before..

Hinduism says that if you do "bad things" in this life, you will have a rather crappy "next life"

This is what I cannot bring myself to believe in... I cannot look at a disabled child, watch them suffer and think - Well he must have been a bad boy in a previous life...It would be a heartless thing to believe..

[Beckys_Mom]

Someone smokes and gets cancer, or drinks and gets disabled in a car accident, beats his wife and goes to prison, I guess that is karma.

There is something a bit wrong with this Mark... What about the millions of cancer patients who suffer and never had a ciggy in their lives?..Not every smoker gets cancer either...

Another thing - Drinks and gets disabled in a car accident? ..Did you mean, drinking and driving ?

[Frank Merton]

I don't worry much about whether I'm happy or joyful or fulfilled or frustrated or whatever. I just live my life day to day keeping in mind the three principles of controlling desires, managing revulsions and keeping close touch with what the world really is rather than what I would like it to be.

[Jeremiah65]

That is not the goal at all. This really shows you don't understand the philosophy. I was watching the PBS program on the Buddha and in the Dali Lama says Buddhist can feel sad and cry, but but the goal is to have happiness in your inner core. If you look at the Dali Lama writings he talk a lot about happiness and finding in your life. He is not talking about becoming emotionless at all. The goal is to find happiness through love, compassion, balance and understanding. The last time I looked happiness was an emotion.

I couldn't find his quote but here is the show and if you take the time to watch it you will find.

http://www.pbs.org/thebuddha/

This is a good talk, too.

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What an excellent video for those that will take the time to watch and listen. It's true, anger and hatred are poison to our bodies yet we embrace them freely everyday. If you do not take the time to watch the video that Greemansgod has shared...i am sorry for you....it is a wonderful video filled with wisdom and understanding.

I did watch the PBS special on Buddha when it aired and it was wonderful and informative. Siddhartha was just a man seeking answers....he suffered much in his quest and he took the time to share what he discovered. I cannot understand why anyone would not at least take the time to listen to what he had to say. He may have been born of royal blood, but he "chose" to set that aside and seek truth. That in itself is worthy of appreciation.

I said earlier that I am well grounded in Christianity....but when you consider some of the theories of the "missing years" of Christ's life...some think he went to the far east and studied with them.....there is not a giant leap between the altruism of Christianity and the fundamentals of Buddhism....I like to think that our Christ went to the east and studied with the Buddhists.....they are not gigantically different in practice.

There is an underlying message that many people just seem to miss....overwhelmingly simple....."Just do good things, don't do bad things"....how simple is that?

[Big Bad Voodoo]

Food, shelter and clothing are basic human rights, necessities for survival the need to have these are not about desire but about survival and the survival of our children is something we look to achieve through love. It is a matter of understanding what drives us and whether it is morally sound or born of simple greed.

I also wrote to you in post 72.

So now discuss in what extend is morally acceptable to collect goods and what is beyond it?

If that so then Buddhism is religion for rich. Because cca 5% of the world hold 90% of capital and money. Paraphrasied.

So who decide is it moral to collect goods for our grandsons or sons? Who decide when appetite is corrupted?

Drive us our nature. Thats why I use communism as example. No ideology can surpress human nature. None.

[Big Bad Voodoo]

L....where are you from? Your use of the English language is unique. Just a point of curiosity.

I also said I was not going to argue in this thread and I am not going to. Let him who has eyes see....

Each "religion" or philosophy of the world, throughout history...has a bit of truth within it. The best advice I have is to open your mind and actively seek knowledge. It's out there for those that look.

The OP was about disabilities and Karma....it totally depends what point of view you "choose" to take. If you choose to believe in re-birth and reincarnation, then which path do you believe in? Hinduism says that if you do "bad things" in this life, you will have a rather crappy "next life". Buddhism says that you choose your next life for the lessons to be learned through living it.

I do not necessarily believe in the Hinduistic cycle....I believe that if such a thing as Karma exists, it happens in the now. If you steal $20.00 from someone....then you drive down the road and get a flat tire that costs you $100.00 to deal with....that is "karma"...I prefer the old saying that reflects "karma" in a way "What goes around comes around." You screw someone over....you shall in due time...be screwed....

Interesting view. I rather think that is Chinese saying: "If you wait a long enough by river, you will see your enemies floating." So are Buddhists seek for vengence and not able to forgive?

Im from Croatia.

Edited August 3, 2013 by the L

[Frank Merton]

Please keep Hinduism and Buddhism separate. If you don't know the differences it might be best not to make comments that demonstrate confusion. Karma is a concept they share, but it is such plain common sense that that is not surprising.

[Grandpa Greenman]

I said earlier that I am well grounded in Christianity....but when you consider some of the theories of the "missing years" of Christ's life...some think he went to the far east and studied with them.....there is not a giant leap between the altruism of Christianity and the fundamentals of Buddhism....I like to think that our Christ went to the east and studied with the Buddhists.....they are not gigantically different in practice.

There is an underlying message that many people just seem to miss....overwhelmingly simple....."Just do good things, don't do bad things"....how simple is that?

I think if he did he would have he would have come back with a different message. Christianity is very God center where as Buddhism is not, there really aren't any gods in Buddhism. I think if he would have went up to a Buddhist and said I am the son of God and the only way to the father is through me, they would have said, "Boy, don't go there". In the Tibetan book of the dead (Bardo Thodol) they worn about going to a God's heaven, because you will become their slave. If you listen to what Dali Lama is saying you are born with this knowledge and you lose it overtime. Siddhartha just pointed out the way to regain it. IMO

Edited August 3, 2013 by GreenmansGod

[Grandpa Greenman]

Interesting view. I rather think that is Chinese saying: "If you wait a long enough by river, you will see your enemies floating." So are Buddhists seek for vengence and not able to forgive?

Im from Croatia.

I think the meaning behind that is everybody dies eventually, so don't waste your time. I think it is a big leap to say the quote has anything to do with Buddhism. The Dali Lama and Buddha would say vengeance = anger and anger is a negative emotion. Anger clouds your thinking, stresses you out and makes you sick.

[Frank Merton]

"Anger clouds your thinking, stresses you out and makes you sick."

So does love.

[Big Bad Voodoo]

I think Buddhism is about anti fetishism. On which I agree. And about others stuffs which I cant accept due someone words. Like: Karma law and previous lives...etc etc.

That said (anti fetishism) I think Buddhism is little oudated.

We in Europe for instance dont worship objects.

Edited August 3, 2013 by the L

[Jeremiah65]

There is some good stuff in here. i am enjoying this conversation.

Anger clouds you mind and makes you sick....so does love. Wow. never thought of it that way, but it's true. I guess the difference is anger projects that pain and suffering onto someone else and love does not.

As far as Christ going to the Far east and meeting the Buddhist, it's just a thing I like to think of...that his mind was open and pure...bsolutely no evidence for or against...just a odd thought I had.

No...the Buddhists are not seeking revenge, but they are not sissies either....the fact that they are standing up against the tide of Islam that is destroying their lands is pretty huge if you ask me. The monks have fought before....they are not cowards, they choose to try and find another way...but if you bring violence to their doorstep, they will respond.

Buddhism is not rich L...i think you are confusing them with the Vatican. Perhaps they have some money, but I think it is minimal in comparison.

No religion or philosophy...in my opinion....should accumulate wealth...it leads to corruption. It should come in one door and be dispersed through another one immediately.

Edited August 3, 2013 by Jeremiah65

[Frank Merton]

When religions become wealthy, it is usually because they are given land and craftsmen build works of religious devotion that are also art. This creates something of a dilemma for an organization devoted to poverty, dealt with various ways.

Many Buddhists are pacifists and would rather be killed than be violent. I don't know that these qualify as sissies.

The Buddhist has no problem with the idea that Jesus died for our sins or that Mohammed was God's prophet. We may not think it is true, but if a Buddhist does, they can still be a Buddhist. That doesn't mean that everyone is a Buddhist, except in a metaphorical sense. There are some things that if you don't accept would make calling yourself a Buddhist untrue.

[spartan max2]

When religions become wealthy, it is usually because they are given land and craftsmen build works of religious devotion that are also art. This creates something of a dilemma for an organization devoted to poverty, dealt with various ways.

Many Buddhists are pacifists and would rather be killed than be violent. I don't know that these qualify as sissies.

The Buddhist has no problem with the idea that Jesus died for our sins or that Mohammed was God's prophet. We may not think it is true, but if a Buddhist does, they can still be a Buddhist. That doesn't mean that everyone is a Buddhist, except in a metaphorical sense. There are some things that if you don't accept would make calling yourself a Buddhist untrue.

Tibet Buddhist burned themselves in protest of some war china was doing, I don't know the details. But it was a not violent protest for sure. But yeah like you said they are definitely not sissies

[libstaK]

I also wrote to you in post 72.

So now discuss in what extend is morally acceptable to collect goods and what is beyond it?

If that so then Buddhism is religion for rich. Because cca 5% of the world hold 90% of capital and money. Paraphrasied.

So who decide is it moral to collect goods for our grandsons or sons? Who decide when appetite is corrupted?

Drive us our nature. Thats why I use communism as example. No ideology can surpress human nature. None.

L with all due respect, I have answered the questions as far as Elfin was concerned and your initial concerns. However, I am not a buddhist I am a christian and I actually have no interest in further derailing this topic to discuss what you have decided I should discuss.

By the way, the topic is are disabilities the result of karma.

[libstaK]

"Anger clouds your thinking, stresses you out and makes you sick."

So does love.

The kind of love born of attachment aka: one that seeks something in return may do that but real love just exists.

If you love someone "because" then they will fail you and your expectations of them, they have their own life and choices which they are free to make.

Of course, the loss of a loved one is painful I know this well as I am sure most do but the love itself doesn't leave it has it's place in the heart and there it remains right through the grief of loss and as a shining beacon when acceptance arrives.

[Big Bad Voodoo]

L with all due respect, I have answered the questions as far as Elfin was concerned and your initial concerns. However, I am not a buddhist I am a christian and I actually have no interest in further derailing this topic to discuss what you have decided I should discuss.

By the way, the topic is are disabilities the result of karma.

I agree we went offtopic. I should behave myself when notice some alternative views on religion, which I can stand. I will not bite anymore. I acted like dog who saw bone.

[Elfin]

I'm not sure the idea of wanting to have the disabilities is much better then them being punishments.

[libstaK]

I'm not sure the idea of wanting to have the disabilities is much better then them being punishments.

None of those ideas are appealing because it is one person projecting their perception (judgement) of another person's circumstances onto them as though their personal perception was objective fact.

Karma is only about the first person - ourselves, the theory only works when we apply it to our own lives and treat everyone else as though they are absolutely innocent of karma and perfect just as they are.

It may not make sense at first reading, but think it through.

In my christian version of the teaching I always like this "judge not, lest thou be judged for in whatsoever manner ye judge, so shall ye be judged".

[Grandpa Greenman]

While I'm a spiritual person, I think is comes down to livings things are complex and the more complex something is the more it is breaks down. Remember that next time you're looking at a car with all the bells and whistles. I went with friend one time to the car lot. We were standing there making bets on which part would go first, when the salesman says, does that mean you are buying the car. My buddy says, that depends on whether or not you want in the bet.

[LibGeek]

Absolutely not. Prior to having my son, I may have considered it. Now that he has been diagnosed with autism, I find it ridiculous. He is a happy, wonderful biy and I can't imagine him ever being otherwise, in any life time.