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Elfin

Was the Old Testament god a demon?

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Who managed to convince one small set of followers to worship him, on pain of death, and who has been expanding his power ever since, causing untold misery to billions of people?

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Yaltabaoth? ...according to some gnostic texts-Yes...That why Kathars, Bogumils and similar got to go.

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You have a lot of hate in you.....I hope you find a way to let if go....

Best wishes.......

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Just an elemental god, no demon.

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Just an elemental god, no demon.

Its so hot here I wish rain falls.

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If you are beginning with the assumption that a "god" is benevolent and a "demon" is, well, the opposite, then:

Imo, rather than a "demon" made into a "god" by his followers, I'd tend to go with a "god" made a demon because of his followers. In other words, humans being humans, can be very poor "god" followers and very poor god creators.

In my own personal belief, I think all religions' gods and demons are human-made and created in human's image and thus at the mercy of humans..Nice idea that just doesn't play out well

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Posted (edited)

Who managed to convince one small set of followers to worship him, on pain of death, and who has been expanding his power ever since, causing untold misery to billions of people?

Keep in mind that it was very easy in the past to manipulate people as most were uneducated, illiterate and had no knowledge of the world around them other than what they read in mythology. It was only the priests and the rich who were privileged enough to have any modicum of education.

As such the elite held great power over the masses and what better way than to threaten them with eternal torment and plagues sent by a wrathful, hateful sky monster.

For generations this is how people grew, this is how most raised their children and in turn their children usually continued the "traditions". Fear was and still is a powerful motivator and impetus to make people do what you want, most could even be manipulated into committing atrocities all in the name of the religion of the day.

The cycle can only be broken by the individual.

Anywhoo..people believed then, as they do now, that all morals and ethics came from some outside source and that if you were not religious then you couldn't possibly be moral.

Sadly most any religion will allude to the idea that their way is the only way, that in order to live any sort of meaningful life then you must accept concepts that go outside the observable universe. (i.e be religious and bow and scrape like a dog beaten into submission.)

Edited by Ryu
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Its so hot here I wish rain falls.

You must learn to rain dance my alphabet letter friend. It helps.

*sniff, sniff * smell that?! It's there in the clouds waiting on you........

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You have a lot of hate in you.....I hope you find a way to let if go....

Best wishes.......

I think it's ok to hate hatred. In fact, it's a moral obligation.

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It's a pretty black/white look at things to call an entire system of beliefs hatred.

if we're going by the bible as is, then God created the world he can do as he wants with it.

The Old Testament is most likely people trying to explain stuff going on around them that they didn't understand.

A guy's family falls into a creavice that suddenly opens up, they don't know what a sinkhole is, so they think, "well, obviously they did something bad, the earth ate them."

If however the old testament is meant to be taken as literal and true, then while Harsh, God's not the monster that it's easy to label him as, because this was before society had formed solidly yet, so harsher measures were needed to be taken.

However chances of mercy are offered.

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I think it's ok to hate hatred. In fact, it's a moral obligation.

Yes, but I don't think there's any WBC people on this forum...at least none that I could tell. You could try and find one of their websites and flame bait them from there. I'm pretty sure you would be highly successful with them, you'd probably get all the attacks you want.

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Posted (edited)

Who managed to convince one small set of followers to worship him, on pain of death, and who has been expanding his power ever since, causing untold misery to billions of people?

He's a narcissistic madman.

Edited by Mystic Crusader
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In his defense...he does admit to being a jealous God.

we shoulda read the fine print

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I think it's ok to hate hatred. In fact, it's a moral obligation.

Exactly.

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That was so long ago, who really can verify what happened?

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Doc Brown, obviosuly.

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"I think it's ok to hate hatred. In fact, it's a moral obligation." if atheists have no objective morality then how can anything really be a "moral obligation"? obligated? by who? society that also has a similar random sense sense of "morality"? i believe that the Old Testament God is morally good and His actions can be justified. before anyone replies with any bashing and hate mail, i just want to say that i do have my reasons. and even the faith that i have is based on reasons for having that faith. if anyone would like to know, how much faith i have, how strong my religious convictions are, or anything else. i'm open to it. but please, whatever you post, be mature please.

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I'll tell ya right now, atheists aren't gonna appreciate the morality argument

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"I think it's ok to hate hatred. In fact, it's a moral obligation." if atheists have no objective morality then how can anything really be a "moral obligation"? obligated? by who? society that also has a similar random sense sense of "morality"? i believe that the Old Testament God is morally good and His actions can be justified. before anyone replies with any bashing and hate mail, i just want to say that i do have my reasons. and even the faith that i have is based on reasons for having that faith. if anyone would like to know, how much faith i have, how strong my religious convictions are, or anything else. i'm open to it. but please, whatever you post, be mature please.

The O.T. god is like Michael Myers on steroids.

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I would argue the difference is that he has a plan for the things he's doing. In the book, the ends justify the means.

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Posted (edited)

Edited and Added to my above post. I timed out.

If you are beginning with the assumption that a"god" is benevolent and a "demon" is the opposite, then:

In my personal opinion, rather than a "demon" made into a "god" by his followers, I'd tend to go with a "god" made a demon because of his followers.

In other words, humans being humans, they can be very poor "god" followers and very poor "god" creators. Imo.

In my own personal belief,I think all religions' gods and spirits are at the mercy of humans.

A higher being may be a nice idea but it doesn't play out consistently. Imo.

I do not mean there aren't any benevolent "god" followers, I would never say that. Just that in the grand scheme, and millions of human religious followers, there's going to be a lot of problems and little consistency...

Imo, humans would still kill and hate and oppress without any so called "gods". Religion is used as an excuse by those who would hate, exclude, kill, and con people anyway.

And likewise, religion "god" is used as a scapegoat by those who hate religion. Imo.

Did the Catholic church's bible teachings create pedophiles or do pedophiles seek out work in the catholic church as a way to have contact with youth? Just like we see in the news with youth coaches and Scout leaders, etc. Did the Catholic "god's" teachings cause the leaders to cover up the acts of pedophilia or did the humans in charge act on their own accord in the cover up? I believe I know that answer.

Are there violent hate-filled extreme zealots? Sure. But without a religion ("god") would they still be extremists?

Criminals ruin lives every second of every day all over the world, yet would we call most of them " sincerely religious" individuals?

Do we blame the context instead of the individuals? Then we could apply that to any peer pressure situation, and even Nazi war criminals.

Religion ("god") made me do it!

Religion ("god") made them do it!

But unless you're truly brainwashed into a cult, I don't buy either excuse. It is still up to the individual to go along or not and reveals who he/she is as a human being.

There is so much variance as to what one's religious belief means to each individual believer as well as what effect it has on their actions/daily lives. I believe "god" is an individually molded being for each believer. I agree with this, I don't agree with that. I'll do this, I won't do that. I like this, I don't like that.

"God" is an extension of human behavior, not the cause. Imo.

Edited by QuiteContrary

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"I'll tell ya right now, atheists aren't gonna appreciate the morality argument"

i don't want to make anyone angry and i would hope that i would always so much rather win the person than the argument. but i'm not gonna stay away from every theistic argument that makes the skeptic even the slightest bit upset. meanwhile, my God is being called a demon. of course i'm gonna show up with a defense.

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I don't disagree w/ your mindset of defending your beliefs, but I've been in enough arguments w/ atheists and christians aliek to know that the argument that atheists don't have a morality isn't going to lead anywhere productive.

it'd be the same as calling Muslim's all terrorists, or Christians all members of the Spanish Inquisition.

Tho that would be unexpected.

Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition.

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Are your current gods demons? There's enough going on in the world to support that...

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Some christians would blame the devil for that

christian scholars would argue men's free will and God allowing man to make his own decisions.

i think people are just d*cks

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