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bassai26

Bible the word of God

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would you think the Bible is just like an epic story?

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A fable.

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There were hundreds of references to Christ's first appearance. There have been specific predictions of events hundreds of years prior to fulfillment and even specific cities have been named for a destiny. That's one powerful and well written fable. But the bottom line is that those who choose to disbelieve, will. A day is coming when it will no longer be a matter of faith though, and when that day comes I wouldn't want to be the one realizing that I was wrong - and far from being somehow "superior" in intellect, I was just being a common, willful human being. Not because of any punishment but because I'd be thinking of all the wasted effort.

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It is a myth, simple as that. Like any good story they sprinkled it with some real locations and a few real people in it. IMO

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I think some of it is historical, some of it is figurative, some of it is literal, and some of it is falsified muck based on what the translator/church was trying to accomplish at that time.

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Little reality mixed with lots of fantasy, became the greatest control weapon ever. Well played Vatican, well played.

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I like the idea that the bible is simply the idle imaginings of man, and that other, older texts are true. So, those who live by the bible and think those who do not will have some explaining to do, I would like to see the look on your faces when you die and find yourself in the Hall of Maat. Have fun with correctly answering the fourty two negative confessions, which make only ten biblical commandments look rather dangerously liberal.

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Among other things, The Bible is a library ('biblia,' plural for "books" in Greek and Latin), a collection of books (66 in most Protestant versions, more in the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox traditions, add The Book of Mormon for the 'Latter Day saints' and some gnostic texts for the mystics and intellectuals). As some posters have already noted, The Bible contains a wide variety of works--myth (as in stories revealing truth, not false tales), history, laws, war reports and propaganda, ethical aphorisms, wise sayings, rules and regulations, poetry, laments, erotic verse, prophecy (as in 'speaking the truth to power,' not necessarily 'predicting the future'), sermons, narratives, visions and more. To those who take it seriously (not necessarily literally) it's fun; to those who reject it, The Bible may be merely funny.

In my opinion and experience, it is a powerfully comforting and healing collection of writings; it also has been and still is used as a cudgel and talisman to inflict pain and destroy ideas and people.

Just like most things people get their hands on it can be used for both good and ill.

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bassai26,

2 Timothy 3:16 "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:"

God is perfect, therefore his word is perfect and is true.

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would you think the Bible is just like an epic story?

The main thing I get from the bible is the history of a people that God used to send a message to a sick world. I'm one of those people who has no problem believing in the miracles, or the violence, or the promises of a better day to come. When I read it I feel like God speaks to me in a lot of ways, so by reading it I hear the voice of God in my spirit. However I never forget that it is just a book, and can be used for the most evil purposes in the hands of wicked men. A man can use it to justify just about anything he wants to believe, even if it is atheism.

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bassai26,

2 Timothy 3:16 "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:"

God is perfect, therefore his word is perfect and is true.

Despite the many ministrations, contradictions, different compilations, ect, right?

I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet.

Timothy 2:12

My girlfriend never follows this dictation...

Possibly my favorite story from the Bible to tell the kiddies:

From there Elisha went up to Bethel. As he was walking along the road, some boys came out of the town and jeered at him. “Get out of here, baldy!” they said. “Get out of here, baldy!” 24 He turned around, looked at them and called down a curse on them in the name of the Lord. Then two bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the boys.

2 Kings 2:23-24

I mean, possibly not as good where god allows for the complete slaughter of the adults of a town, and the young boys, but allows for the keeping of the virgin girls, but still a nice little story of petty meanness.

Other times i enjoy reading the dictations on how to treat the slaves you take, though it only specifies for the Jewish slaves.

In my opinion, the Bible is collection of various legends which themselves incorporate some truth and much fiction.

Most of it can be justified as being from a time period where rape, murder, slavery, and misogyny were part of the norm.

Trying to live to it's moral dictums today requires a good amount of twisting and reworking of the texts in order to justify them.

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There were hundreds of references to Christ's first appearance. There have been specific predictions of events hundreds of years prior to fulfillment and even specific cities have been named for a destiny. That's one powerful and well written fable. But the bottom line is that those who choose to disbelieve, will. A day is coming when it will no longer be a matter of faith though, and when that day comes I wouldn't want to be the one realizing that I was wrong - and far from being somehow "superior" in intellect, I was just being a common, willful human being. Not because of any punishment but because I'd be thinking of all the wasted effort.

Yes, people don't realize the accuracy of the predictions, not only about Christ, of which there are so many (300 + if memory serves) as to be mathematically impossible to be by coincidence, but also about world empires predicted before they existed. In Daniel there are prophesies about Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece and Rome. A detailed account of the career of Alexander the Great and the four generals that divided his kingdom after his death. One book actually named Cyrus the Great some 200 years before his birth, he was so impressed by this he let the Jewish captives return to their homeland.

These prophesies certainly suggest an (ultimate) authorship that exists outside of linear time. Someone that knows the end from the beginning. Oh I know, It's dismissed as luck or in the case of some that is so fantastic and beyond anything human, that it is claimed to be written after the fact. But Biblical scholars would debate this. The book of Daniel has many of these prophesies and is one of the best documented books in the OT. It was translated into Greek 200 years before the birth of Jesus (the Septuagint) and He references it in the Gospels.

I remember the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy where Douglas Adams basically said: man did away with God on the basis of (faulty) logic, and then went on to prove black was white, and was promptly run over at the next Zebra crossing.

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bassai26,

2 Timothy 3:16 "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:"

God is perfect, therefore his word is perfect and is true.

So, it is true because it says it is true?

I recommend taking logic 101...

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It is a myth, simple as that. Like any good story they sprinkled it with some real locations and a few real people in it. IMO

You seem well studied in the area so I ask you - IF Damascus were to be destroyed - overnight - would it cause you to wonder if possibly you were misjudging this fable? Isaiah wrote about the destiny of Damascus 2600 years ago. He made a prediction that has so far NOT happened but is looking very likely to happen in our time. There are predictions by Ezekiel from roughly the same time that a group of nations would come against Israel in the "last days" but that God Himself would destroy 5/6 of them. Those nations/peoples have modern names but are the same people groups he wrote of. Turkey, Russia, the "Stans", Sudan, Algeria, Libya,Ethiopia.... All are Muslim today and all hate Israel. If an attack by those nations materialized in the next ten years it will be easy enough to blow it off and say "well of course they'd attack, look at what Israel is doing in Palestine". Ignoring that this attack was PREDICTED a couple of millennia ago.

I think people - those of faith and those who abstain from such things - can get so invested in what they believe that they cannot even admit the possibilities that they might be in error. I KNOW that is the case with myself. There is nothing that would make me let go of my faith in God.

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bassai26,

2 Timothy 3:16 "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:"

God is perfect, therefore his word is perfect and is true.

Does this include the original ending of Mark?

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Yes, people don't realize the accuracy of the predictions, not only about Christ, of which there are so many (300 + if memory serves) as to be mathematically impossible to be by coincidence, but also about world empires predicted before they existed. In Daniel there are prophesies about Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece and Rome. A detailed account of the career of Alexander the Great and the four generals that divided his kingdom after his death. One book actually named Cyrus the Great some 200 years before his birth, he was so impressed by this he let the Jewish captives return to their homeland.

No, they realize what you call a prophecy was written after the events.

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It's a book written and edited many times by humans. I don't believe it is in any way the "word of God" but rather the word of bigoted humans trying to control one another. If there is a God or God-like force I highly doubt he/she/it cares about any of the stuff he/she/it supposedly opposes or preaches in the various holy books.

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Posted (edited)

There were hundreds of references to Christ's first appearance. There have been specific predictions of events hundreds of years prior to fulfillment and even specific cities have been named for a destiny. That's one powerful and well written fable. But the bottom line is that those who choose to disbelieve, will. A day is coming when it will no longer be a matter of faith though, and when that day comes I wouldn't want to be the one realizing that I was wrong - and far from being somehow "superior" in intellect, I was just being a common, willful human being. Not because of any punishment but because I'd be thinking of all the wasted effort.

Im sorry... but.....

There may be "many references to christ first appearance" but there is absolutely no imperial historical evidence to indicate christs existence, sadly many many many Christians are still under the impression that there is actually valid eveidence or have never even or at least very limitededly explored the actual evidence for this mans existence, instead they just take for granted that there must be valid evidence as there's so many following the bible like sheep (please excuse the ironic pun) the only thing we can be sure about is the bible is a completely adulterated text that has been chopped about with bits added and removed by power hungry so called religious institutions..

No one has the slightest physical evidence to support a historical Jesus; no artifacts, dwelling, works of carpentry, or self-written manuscripts. All claims about Jesus derive from writings of other people. There occurs no contemporary Roman record that shows Pontius Pilate executing a man named Jesus. Devastating to historians, there occurs not a single contemporary writing that mentions Jesus. All documents about Jesus came well after the life of the alleged Jesus from either: unknown authors, people who had never met an earthly Jesus, or from fraudulent, mythical or allegorical writings.

By all means if you know of any VALID historical evidence that actually justify your stamens please enlighten me! I wanna believe :-) it would be lovely! :-)

Edited by Cherrypress
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Does this include the original ending of Mark?

Of course it would. The original ending of Mark is still in the modern Bibles, it's just situated a couple of verses earlier. And the new ending? Agreed, not in the original copies of Mark, BUT there is nothing in the added material that is not corroborated by the other gospels or the early oral traditions or early church teachings.

No, they realize what you call a prophecy was written after the events.

I used to believe that Daniel was a 2nd Century BC text. Then last year I was the Bible Study leader for my church's adult study group. In order to be fair I brought a balanced look to the group by using both Christian and academic sources to examine, with my intention to say that I personally took the academic consensus about the 2nd century but they can choose the Christian view if they like.

However, the more I looked into it the more my views changed. My study notes are packed away in some box or other (I'm moving houses), but several points didn't mesh and could only be squared up by a 6th Century BC authorship. I still understand why the 2nd century is favoured by many, but I've shifted my opinion based on my research.

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Of course it would. The original ending of Mark is still in the modern Bibles, it's just situated a couple of verses earlier. And the new ending? Agreed, not in the original copies of Mark, BUT there is nothing in the added material that is not corroborated by the other gospels or the early oral traditions or early church teachings.

Is it perfect though?

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Is it perfect though?

I believe it is, and the existence of text that had been identified as an addition to the original doesn't affect that view. In truth, the fact that we have such an abundance of ancient texts to reconstruct with a fair degree of certainty what the originals were is actually very reassuring to me. Personally I'd be more worried if we COULDN'T do this, for it would mean the overall accuracy of the text would be in serious question. But since such texts do exist, I feel that my trust in the accuracy of the Bible is justified.
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Sorry but I disagree. There is no evidence of the existence of 1 man, where's the evidence that X writer wrote something before something happened? It's just a matter of faith for all of you, you believe what Vatican says, that's all. Vatican says "this piece of paper was written in XXXX" and you will believe it and sadly we can't have a discussion with a logical input about it because faith is involved.

Now, faith is 1 thing and religion as an institution is another thing. We must remember that the biggest genocides in our history were made in "name of God", mostly by the Catholic church (probably the biggest genocide in our history) and that's a fact. And that was a matter of religion as an institution, this means, discard any other belief and kill and force people to follow another (Southamerica for instance). Now, if you all want to believe that all these men existed and wrote these books in specifics periods of time giving us information about the future thanks to the grace of the almighty god, that's faith. Because you choose to believe whatever you want to believe, but I'm a logical person that mostly think with logic and common sense and the answer for me is that is more plausible that a religion as an institution made everything up in orden to gain economic and political control over people. And that's a fact, because for instance, the Vatican is the owner of one of the most important bank in the world, brands and even weapon factories. Tell me I'm wrong with this.

Bible scholars for me sound like Star Wars scholars or anyone who spend time studying something that mix fantasy and reality. So if you want to go with faith, go ahead, I don't understimate people who believe in the existence of smurfs.

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Sorry but I disagree. There is no evidence of the existence of 1 man, where's the evidence that X writer wrote something before something happened? It's just a matter of faith for all of you, you believe what Vatican says, that's all. Vatican says "this piece of paper was written in XXXX" and you will believe it and sadly we can't have a discussion with a logical input about it because faith is involved.

Now, if you all want to believe that all these men existed and wrote these books in specifics periods of time giving us information about the future thanks to the grace of the almighty god, that's faith.

the Vatican is the owner of one of the most important bank in the world, brands and even weapon factories.

So if you want to go with faith, go ahead,.

To have faith in the bible doesn't mean a person has to have faith in the Vatican. The bible came first and then men used it to learn to live by faith, or they used it to create powerful religions that attempt to control the people. The fact that powerful religions may have used the bible for evil doesn't mean that the bible is evil and shouldn't be trusted. It is the content of the bible that people like me have faith in, not the men who may use it like a weapon.

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To have faith in the bible doesn't mean a person has to have faith in the Vatican. The bible came first and then men used it to learn to live by faith, or they used it to create powerful religions that attempt to control the people. The fact that powerful religions may have used the bible for evil doesn't mean that the bible is evil and shouldn't be trusted. It is the content of the bible that people like me have faith in, not the men who may use it like a weapon.

How are you sure that bible wasn't manipulated by those who hold the truth of religion? (This means, the ones who actually control religion). You're sure because you have faith on their word.

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How are you sure that bible wasn't manipulated by those who hold the truth of religion? (This means, the ones who actually control religion). You're sure because you have faith on their word.

The Bible as a set of texts us studies extensively in academia. And while some of these academics are believers, many are not Anne have no belief in scriptural "infallibility". I'd prefer to listen to them than a conspiracy about hidden texts and corrupted data. But that's just me, take it or not, that's my approach to it.
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