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jugoso

8 Ways Privatization Has Failed America

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Some of America's leading news analysts are beginning to recognize the fallacy of the "free market." Said Ted Koppel, "We are privatizing ourselves into one disaster after another."Fareed Zakaria admitted, "I am a big fan of the free market...But precisely because it is so powerful, in places where it doesn't work well, it can cause huge distortions." They're right. A little analysis reveals that privatization doesn't seem to work in any of the areas vital to the American public.

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2013/08/05

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It always was a fallacy to assume that private companies could do something better or cheaper than the government on the long run. The only real advantage is that private companies can do certain things without public scrutiny.

But do we really want law enforcement, defense and municipal tasks performed without scrutiny?

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Maybe this list should be called the failure of the Hybrid system. Seeing how almost everything on this list is not privately owned. It is more of a unholy mix of private and government.

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I'm not saying that what they wrote is wrong, but it does appear to be almost entirely cherry picking of facts to Sell an image of Leftist idiology.

This kind of article is always like "Free Market is bad because..." and then throws out the most extreme examples they can find, so that readers will assume that the rest of the world is SO VERY MUCH better and that the US is still using medieval medicine, medieval transport and medieval economics. And even if some nations do things more cheaply, that does not make what we are doing necessarily wrong.

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I'm not saying that what they wrote is wrong, but it does appear to be almost entirely cherry picking of facts to Sell an image of Leftist idiology.

This kind of article is always like "Free Market is bad because..." and then throws out the most extreme examples they can find, so that readers will assume that the rest of the world is SO VERY MUCH better and that the US is still using medieval medicine, medieval transport and medieval economics. And even if some nations do things more cheaply, that does not make what we are doing necessarily wrong.

I'm not saying that what they wrote is wrong, but it does appear to be almost entirely cherry picking of facts to Sell an image of Leftist idiology.

This kind of article is always like "Free Market is bad because..." and then throws out the most extreme examples they can find, so that readers will assume that the rest of the world is SO VERY MUCH better and that the US is still using medieval medicine, medieval transport and medieval economics. And even if some nations do things more cheaply, that does not make what we are doing necessarily wrong.

Let´s see.....they are talking about health-care, water. transportation. internet amongst other essentials. How in the world is this cherry-picking? These are products we all NEED. And in comparison to other countries. you are being "donged" on them.

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You know what the best way to regulate the free market is?

The government offers the same services.

We used to have in Oz a government bank (Commonwealth Bank) that had sod all fees, interest rates tied directly to the reserve bank etc. It was basically the "battlers bank", it helped regulate the industry by being competitive. Our equivalent of the Troy Party privatised it - presumably at the behest of the other "stakeholders" in the banking industry. Nowadays banks regulate themselves.

We have government schools and private schools. We have government hospitals and private hospitals. And each and every time, the existence of a government service regulates that industry.

that's what should be done. The government just offers solidly reliable services in all industry and thus influences the market.

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The same way it is here, Sir.

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The same way it is here, Sir.

then the government is failing in offering suitable services if the private concerns are unphased by their involvement in the industry.

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It always was a fallacy to assume that private companies could do something better or cheaper than the government on the long run. The only real advantage is that private companies can do certain things without public scrutiny.

But do we really want law enforcement, defense and municipal tasks performed without scrutiny?

:tu: When you privatize everybody has to have a profit margin. Profit adds layer of cost to taxpayer.

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Posted (edited)

In my opinion:

I don't consider waiting a year for surgery in Canada because of govt run health care to be better than a 3-week wait in United States. And I don't consider it cheaper when the patient waiting 3-4x longer for surgery requires more medications, more doctor visits more coping treatments (whether doc sanctioned or worse) more therapy and more medical devices plus loss of work...

How many countries are struggling financially or beginning to see the financial costs of offering universal health care? I point out the above, not to be an intolerant prick, but to point out there is trouble in govt run paradise as well.

I don't care how well some country touts and grandstands its systems. Or, how some strict intolerant agenda driven worldview does either.

I want to see honesty as to the benefits and problems from multiple citizens' stand points on up the ranks.

Neither govt run nor private run would be a panacea. But unless we stop playing strict partisan games we'll never even get close to one.

It's like life is nothing but a competitive soccer game. "We're the best and you suck!" End of discussion.

Instead of "Okay, your goalie is better than ours." "Your star player is stronger." "But our coach is more creative and successful in his plays." Simplistic, I know. But when we act like ___________... it fits....

Edited by QuiteContrary
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Let´s see.....they are talking about health-care, water. transportation. internet amongst other essentials. How in the world is this cherry-picking? These are products we all NEED. And in comparison to other countries. you are being "donged" on them.

Cherry picking as in they use Korea as an example for internet speed, but what is the speed in France, Germany, Japan, Brazil, Egypt, Greece??? Better? How much so? I don't know. Could be the Korea is the worst other nation or the best. The article doesn't quantify such.

Transport.... The article talks about China's high speed network, but hell, what does that directly correlate with? Does it link all of China? Does it link only the Eastern ciities? Is it only inside the Metro areas?

Do you believe that there are No Positive areas that the US has achieved in these areas? If so, then I understand where you are coming from and will stand down, as arguing with the totally committed is not one of my favorite things to do.

Sure, I could go and Fact-Check each "fact" in the article. Probably take, 3 to 6 hours. I chould also go look for countering "facts" that show that the articles "Facts" are wrong, or misquoted, or are not so great. Sure, I could do that, but it is much easier to read a piece like this and process it and understand that it is a cherry pick hit piece. That is just what it is.....

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I think the reason private companies often perform better than state companies is when they have serious competition. Unfortunately as time passes the competitors either drop away or find ways to avoid head-on competition, and over time private enterprise grinds down to near-monopolistic self-perpetuating bureaucracies.

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You know what the best way to regulate the free market is?

The government offers the same services.

We used to have in Oz a government bank (Commonwealth Bank) that had sod all fees, interest rates tied directly to the reserve bank etc. It was basically the "battlers bank", it helped regulate the industry by being competitive. Our equivalent of the Troy Party privatised it - presumably at the behest of the other "stakeholders" in the banking industry. Nowadays banks regulate themselves.

We have government schools and private schools. We have government hospitals and private hospitals. And each and every time, the existence of a government service regulates that industry.

that's what should be done. The government just offers solidly reliable services in all industry and thus influences the market.

I tend to agree with this sentiment. If there is no government interest in an industry, then the industry charges whatever it can get away with, sometimes insanely high pricing. But, the same can happen in a system where only the government is the industry. Not necessarily that it becomes expensive, but that it gets corrupt, with slower and slower service and workers.

The problem I feel with Privatization is that the GOVERNMENT is the decider on who gets the privatized industry. They decided who was going to screw up the water, electric, internet, transport.... What was not allowed was free interprize actually take over. The government basically took their department and tossed it to a civilian contractor... well running a buisiness is a lot different then running a government office, and it is no wonder that so much was caused to fail.

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I think the reason private companies often perform better than state companies is when they have serious competition. Unfortunately as time passes the competitors either drop away or find ways to avoid head-on competition, and over time private enterprise grinds down to near-monopolistic self-perpetuating bureaucracies.

I do agree with this too. A single monolithic private industry taking over for the government is not any more healthy then the government.

Just as the Federal Postal System is competing with dozens of independent parcel and letter companies. If there was only FedEx and no others, I suspect that FedEx would sux.

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Vital areas to the public are those that should be owned by the government.

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Vital areas to the public are those that should be owned by the government.

Yeah, but what is "Vital"?

Food is vital, isn't it?

Homes are vital, aren't they?

I think even the police and fire departments could be private, if done correctly. Monitored and regulated. But since the police especially are just as much a political tool as a public service, I don't see that happening anytime soon.

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:tu: When you privatize everybody has to have a profit margin. Profit adds layer of cost to taxpayer.

government inefficiency does too, I am not afraid of costs, I am afraid of nontransparent public works.

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Cherry picking as in they use Korea as an example for internet speed, but what is the speed in France, Germany, Japan, Brazil, Egypt, Greece??? Better? How much so? I don't know. Could be the Korea is the worst other nation or the best. The article doesn't quantify such.

Transport.... The article talks about China's high speed network, but hell, what does that directly correlate with? Does it link all of China? Does it link only the Eastern ciities? Is it only inside the Metro areas?

Do you believe that there are No Positive areas that the US has achieved in these areas? If so, then I understand where you are coming from and will stand down, as arguing with the totally committed is not one of my favorite things to do.

Sure, I could go and Fact-Check each "fact" in the article. Probably take, 3 to 6 hours. I chould also go look for countering "facts" that show that the articles "Facts" are wrong, or misquoted, or are not so great. Sure, I could do that, but it is much easier to read a piece like this and process it and understand that it is a cherry pick hit piece. That is just what it is.....

Germany does not even make the top 20 (US at least is #11) . Internet speed is certainly the wrong measurement. And Internet in Germany always has been a private enterprise. But on the other side, the majority of Germans are more interested in 200 TV channels than in fast internet.

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Ted Koppel and Fareed Zakaria are "leading news analysts"?

As for the rest, it reads like the standard laundry list of liberal/progressive outrages. It's good to see that we're now setting up Nestle to be the next "Big Bad" in the world - that's been trickling through these kinds of articles for a couple of months now.

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Posted (edited)

Ted Koppel and Fareed Zakaria are "leading news analysts"?

I would say they have the credentials:

Edward James Martin "Ted" Koppel (born February 8, 1940) is a British American broadcast journalist, best known as the anchor for Nightline from the program's inception in 1980 until his retirement in late 2005. After leaving Nightline, Koppel worked as managing editor for the Discovery Channel before resigning in 2008. Koppel is currently a senior news analyst for National Public Radio and contributing analyst to BBC World News America, and contributes to the new NBC News primetime newsmagazineRock Center with Brian Williams.

Zakaria has been nominated five times for the National Magazine Award, and won it once, for his columns and commentary. His show has won a Peabody award and been nominated for several Emmys. He was conferred India Abroad Person of the Year 2008 award on 20 March 2009, in New York.[38] Filmmaker Mira Nair, who won the award for year 2007, honored her successor.

He has received honorary degrees from Harvard University, Brown University, Johns Hopkins University, the University of Miami, Oberlin College, Bates College, and the University of Oklahoma among others.[39]

In January 2010, Zakaria was given the Padma Bhushan award by the Indian government for his contribution to the field of journalism.[40]

He serves on the board of the Council on Foreign Relations, the New America Foundation, Columbia University's International House, and Shakespeare and Company. He was a trustee of Yale University and the Trilateral Commission

As for the rest, it reads like the standard laundry list of liberal/progressive outrages. It's good to see that we're now setting up Nestle to be the next "Big Bad" in the world - that's been trickling through these kinds of articles for a couple of months now.

Can you find errors in the facts they present rather than attacking them personally?

Edited by jugoso

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Yeah, but what is "Vital"?

Food is vital, isn't it?

Homes are vital, aren't they?

I think even the police and fire departments could be private, if done correctly. Monitored and regulated. But since the police especially are just as much a political tool as a public service, I don't see that happening anytime soon.

Sorry, probably wasn't the best choice of word there. I'll list a few to get a general outline of what I mean to say.

Healthcare

Medical insurance

Jails

Education

Roads

Pretty much every privatised source of any of these does not provide adequate service.

In other words, something that should be FOR the people which is turned into something that the people turn into an asset, you can generally expect a poor overall outcome.

Private healthcare and insurance is pretty much explanatory, a perfect example of this going wrong is the US.

Jails. Once again the US. Enforcing unjust laws to incarcerate large amounts of people by exploiting a continuous cycle of future inmates. Having a higher cost to run, more dangerous for prisoners and guards alike. The more expensive prisoners are sent to government jails while the private jails receive government funding, exploit prisoner labour for profit and end up costing the government and overall process a lot more.

Education. Privatised education here in Australia. I have observed possesses quite an unfair advantage over government schools. In regards to high schools. A mother I knew who's son got a reasonably high score said he would have scored around 50 if he had gone to a government school. Where is he now? Well he dropped out of his arts degree and isn't doing too much. The scoring system in my state is also riddled with flaws.

Ok so prepare yourself for nonsensical logic. Your scores can be affected how your school performs overall down to the subject of your class. So say if I went to a school that performed well in a math class which also performed well. My marks would be positively affected by that. On the other hand, if I had a talent for maths and went to a disadvantaged school in the outer suburbs and the school performed poorly, my marks would be negatively affected by such.

I'm not sure how much it has changed since my time, but I doubt such a business would have changed for the better. All the good teachers in my school were snapped up by private schools. All the other kids in private schools were spoonfed like no tomorrow and received a lot simpler "modules" for the subjects which possessed this.

Not only this but subjects like art and such were scaled down quite a bit. Whereas subjects prioritised for special courses an the growing Asian populace in the area which culturally focuses on Maths, science, etc. Became a lot more favoured. Most likely an initiative by the government to attract high paying international students (our school sent ambassadors over to china), so I guess that speaks for itself.

Roads. Ok so the toll roads here are paid for by tax payers. But are then owned by a private company which charges the people who paid for the road, to drive on it. These are usually high traffic, essential connectors. There was even talk to privatise one of the most crucial roads to the city from the eastern/northern suburbs into Melbourne City (Eastern Freeway).

There's some top level corruption going on in these cases. It must all be put to a stop immediately.

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:tu: When you privatize everybody has to have a profit margin. Profit adds layer of cost to taxpayer.

But the profit incentive leads companies to compete with one another to reduce cost. Govt. has no real incentive to decrease cost. Does the govt. bureaucrat get a raise if he can bring down the operating cost of the bureaucracy? No. Does the executive at the private company get a bonus for doing the same? Often yes. Government is too unionized and lawyerized to be capable of any meaningful cost savings activities. Wherever you see govt. attempting to compete with private industry you see this. The post office is losing money hand over foot, NASA is incapable of delivering payloads to the space station at anywhere near the cost of what private space travel companies are able to do so, even with profit margin.

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It always was a fallacy to assume that private companies could do something better or cheaper than the government on the long run.

Oh yes, right! As demostrated by such illustrous examples of success like the ex Soviet Union, the entire gaggle of disasters in Eastern Europe, Cuba, Mao´s China, and North Korea. Or, for that matter, the British NHS or the American postal service.

Just brilliant!

Frankly, I thought the naïve admirers of real-existing socialism had gone the way of the dinsaurs.... but I guess they live on in some corners of cyberspace and intelligentsia.

It is like finding a Cargo Cult here on UEM, LOL

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Oh yes, right! As demostrated by such illustrous examples of success like the ex Soviet Union, the entire gaggle of disasters in Eastern Europe, Cuba, Mao´s China, and North Korea. Or, for that matter, the British NHS or the American postal service.

Just brilliant!

Frankly, I thought the naïve admirers of real-existing socialism had gone the way of the dinsaurs.... but I guess they live on in some corners of cyberspace and intelligentsia.

It is like finding a Cargo Cult here on UEM, LOL

Like demonstrated by Thames Water, not being able to supply London adequately since privatized, as demonstrated by British Mail, going down the hill really fast, as demonstrated by German Telecom who before privatization was in the forefront of digital netbuilding, since privatization Germany is not even among the top 20 nations what internet speed attains.

We are not talking about state run governments, we are talking about state owned companies in capitalism.

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It's not reasonable to generalize and say state or private enterprises always work better. The world is much more complicated than that and we need to get away from such ideological postures and adopt the view of whatever works best in each case.

I do, however, think that a small (like maybe five percent) state interest in larger companies is often if not always a good idea, providing representation on the board and revenue.

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