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LibGeek

Bergman's Bear

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I try to stay up to date on new creatures, but this one totally slipped by. It was "discovered" years ago and I'd never heard of it before today.

What do you think?

Is it a single anomaly? Just a big bear? A new breed? Some sort of cross link-- and to what? Is this the Big Foot of bears?

Also, are there any reliable sites for Bergman's Bear?

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Posted (edited)

I try to stay up to date on new creatures, but this one totally slipped by. It was "discovered" years ago and I'd never heard of it before today.

What do you think?

Is it a single anomaly? Just a big bear? A new breed? Some sort of cross link-- and to what? Is this the Big Foot of bears?

Also, are there any reliable sites for Bergman's Bear?

Hi there. Interesting topic which I hadn't heard of before. There's been another UM thread on it in the past incidentally; http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=146424

My left field guess is that it isn't a real bear at all, but a were-bear(!). The remote Kamchatka Peninsula is also home to a few alleged sightings of Mammoths(!). I think the 'giant bear' and 'mammoth' are actually the same cryptid mammal, which is a species related to the UK black dog phenomenon.

Thanks for posting.

Edited by NatureBoff

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Posted (edited)

I believe there is a good chance of a large bear sub-species in Kamchatka. The "God Bear" was supposed to be very large and had an unusual coat and an unusual appearance.

There was a Discovery series that included the God Bear I think.

http://www.discovery...b1?OpenDocument

http://www.tvguide.c...episodeid=80499

Edited by DieChecker

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Posted (edited)

If the special coat is still in existence, then it should be DNA tested, and I bet the high magnification of the hair medulla will give a result uniquely matching the rock hyrax, just like the analysis of the Sumatran Orang Pendek cryptid hair samples. (!)

Edited by NatureBoff

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Would this mammoth be its own species, or are there Mammoth Bears, Mammoth Wolves, etc?

Is this perhaps a left over Ice Age Bear like the Loch Ness Monster may be a surviving Plesiosaur?

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According to this:

http://www.strangeark.com/bfr/historical/bille-mystery-bears.html

Bergman's Bear may be something separate from The Kamchatka Giant Bear.

I've yet to find any measurement of paw print or height. It may be possible that this animal dwarfs all other giant bears. If this were so then how could they not be visible. Surely our omnipresent, all-knowing government has some sort of satellite on the location if its so difficult to reach. This leads me to believe its the already confirmed Kamchatka Giant Bear.

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I'm suggesting that there's a clever species of mammal that masquerades as a big dog in the UK, and a big bear/mammoth in Kamchatka.

Here's an artist's representation which shows how it could be mistaken for a 'mammoth' by the uninformed interpretations of a local hunter's bizarre encounter.

Bergman_Bear.jpg

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I'm suggesting that there's a clever species of mammal that masquerades as a big dog in the UK, and a big bear/mammoth in Kamchatka.

Here's an artist's representation which shows how it could be mistaken for a 'mammoth' by the uninformed interpretations of a local hunter's bizarre encounter.

Bergman_Bear.jpg

How could an animal so big masquerade as a mere dog or bear in civilization?

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bergman%27s_bear

They say its probably extinct

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Could this be related to the MacFarlane's bear? I remember seeing a bit on this some years ago in a Monster Quest episode.

Yep, I found it on Youtube "Giant Bear Attacks Monster Quest"

Watch at you own brain cell risk.

Edited by QuiteContrary

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This doesn't give any explanation as to why the bear would become extinct. Surely, if the polar bear is still alive, Bergman's can be too.

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maybe it was just too large an animal in too small an area to find enough food sources for it to stay alive.

If it exists that is

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I'm suggesting that there's a clever species of mammal that masquerades as a big dog in the UK, and a big bear/mammoth in Kamchatka.

Here's an artist's representation which shows how it could be mistaken for a 'mammoth' by the uninformed interpretations of a local hunter's bizarre encounter.

Bergman_Bear.jpg

This is the artwork for the Dire Bear from Wizards of the Coast's roleplaying game, Dungeons and Dragons. The initials are for Sam Wood, who is credited as one of the conceptual artists in the Monster Manual, Core Rulebook III v.3.5, in which this exact artwork appears on page 63.

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How could an animal so big masquerade as a mere dog or bear in civilization?

It tries not to be seen and is successful 99.9% of the time. Occasionally they get caught out and it's the human eyewitness who gets confused as to their true identity.

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This is the artwork for the Dire Bear from Wizards of the Coast's roleplaying game, Dungeons and Dragons. The initials are for Sam Wood, who is credited as one of the conceptual artists in the Monster Manual, Core Rulebook III v.3.5, in which this exact artwork appears on page 63.

Okay, I got the pic from googling 'Bergman's Bear'. The size is a rough estimate from the Wikipedia statement:
Bergman determined that the bear was a separate subspecies after examining a hide (which had fur very different from other local bears) and series of footprints, measuring 14.5 x 10 inches, which he judged to be much larger than other bears on Kamchatka.

Some think that the Cold War may have helped the population to recover because the Soviet Military blocked access to the area in that time.[1]

Interest in the bear was revitalized in the 1960s. Hunter Rodion Sivolobov reported claims by Kamchatka natives of an unusually large bear they called either the Irkuiem (roughly meaning "trousers pulled down" due to the appearance of the bear's hind legs), or the "God bear" due to its large size.

The UK black dog and other similar cryptids from around the world are reported to have long slender legs, especially at the rear, with a long shaggy mane. This fits with the "trousers pulled down" imv and would perhaps indicate extra fur around the feet to insulate against the snow on the ground.

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Okay, I got the pic from googling 'Bergman's Bear'. The size is a rough estimate from the Wikipedia statement:

The UK black dog and other similar cryptids from around the world are reported to have long slender legs, especially at the rear, with a long shaggy mane. This fits with the "trousers pulled down" imv and would perhaps indicate extra fur around the feet to insulate against the snow on the ground.

The image appears to be on Monstropedia.

http://www.monstropedia.org/index.php?title=Bergman%27s_Bear

It is artwork created specifically for a fantasy roleplaying game, I don't even think the person is human, and can't really be used to suggest it is an artist representation of anything real. Kodiak bears can have hind paws of 18", so the Bergman's Bear may be larger than other Kamchatka brown bears, but smaller than Kodiak bears, certainly not twice the height of a person at the shoulder.

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Wow - this topic is full of a lot of, well, BS, to be frank. Mammoths. Shapeshifters. Really?

While I am very interested in B. Bear, its hard having a serious discussion with some of these posts. :/ We should make a separate serious thread for discussion imho.

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I've come across some good info on this particular animal, although admittedly generic, it should help this particular thread. :)

Bergman's bear is a cryptid supposedly living on the Kamchatka Peninsula, Russia. It first officially came to light from Bergman, a zoologist, in the 1920's. He was researching Kamchatka brown bears, one of the three largest species today. Its actually one of the top contenders for the title of largest bear species, rivaled only by the polar bear and Kodiak brown bear. Now, supposedly Dr. Bergman was presented with a pelt that was most peculiar in that it had short black fur in contrast to the Kamchatka bears long brown hair, and was far larger. He also said he at one point found a massive footprint 14.5 inches by 10 inches, which, if accurate, is bloody huge.

One point that sticks out the information I've found is that most of Kamchatka has been sealed off during most of the last century for military reasons, so not many people have been allowed to explore there for awhile. A former Soviet official said "black giants were still reported."

So, we have enough details to make this distinct from the usual strain of massive bears there, namely the different fur length and color, and overall size. Its possible that its an isolated population, a subspecies, or genetic throwbacks of regular Kamchatka bears. Its also a simple case of mistaken identities in live sightings, as regular Kamchatka bears still get bloody huge, its not unreasonable for people to honestly mistake them for being far larger than they actually are.

Some info on the peninsula itself, it consists of about 100,000 square miles, a nice chunk of real estate, and a little over one hundred thousand residents. Rather thin population density, and very nice climate.

Its entirely possible that it is extinct, if it was real. But just given the sheer size of the territory and low population density, and most of having been isolated during the Soviet Union reign, its entirely possible some large critters are crawling around out there. Although the sheer lack of reports and sightings makes me stop and scratch my head. Then again, I wouldn't be willing to bet money that there are lots of bloggers in that particular area. But I wouldn't know, heh.

Anyway, a particularly large species of bear in an isolated chunk of land isn't terribly unusual. The Kodiak itself is much like that, so its kind of fun to think there is a jumbo bear species lumbering around in the forests there.

I hope I've been of assistance!

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Okay, I got the pic from googling 'Bergman's Bear'. The size is a rough estimate from the Wikipedia statement:

The UK black dog and other similar cryptids from around the world are reported to have long slender legs, especially at the rear, with a long shaggy mane. This fits with the "trousers pulled down" imv and would perhaps indicate extra fur around the feet to insulate against the snow on the ground.

Where do you come to think that something like that is even possible? I understand it would be large due to the 14.5 x 10 inch feet, but a lion's paw is around 10.6 x 11.2 inches.

If we were going off your foot sizes, then the lion would only be slightly smaller than this mammoth/mammoth bear/rock hyrax/were-creature. A lion has a shoulder heighth of about 4 feet tall. A mammoth had a shoulder heigth of about 11 feet. So this bear would have feet around the size of a lions (slightly smaller in some parts and longer in other) but would have the body size of a giant mammoth. The feet would be incredibly small and unporportioned, so they wouldn't be very useful.

Ontop of this you think it is/is related to the UK black dog? The UK is a pretty good distance from Russia and the ex-Soviet States, so this large creature that is around 11 feet tall is traveling to the UK unnoticed. It also seems you forgot the black dog, is supposed to be something like a dog or a maybe even a black panther that was released into the wild or was transported from somewhere. But then you say it is a were-creature which would be physically impossible.

Changing and moving your bones and anatomy in a mass transformation into a creature that is a comepletely different species than you? This is stuff outta science-fiction. I'm not sure where you develop these theories because you have no scientifical data to back these claims up.

Edited by Nateman

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Bears and lions share different anatomy of course, and have different proportions. You do raise a legitimate point though, and I shall address it. Big lions can attain a length of ten feet long, tail included, and weigh 500 pounds. That's a big cat. They are of course built for hitting large and dangerous African game, but are also very stealthy. When stalking prey they spread their weight over the pads of their paws. Obviously, the circumstances under which the print you mentioned was made will have influence over the size of the mark its making. The size will vary if it was made while calmly walking, stalking, or sprinting. Whether it is one of the front paws or back paws definitely matter. The medium it was made on is important as well. Do you happen to know the actual size of the lion that you referenced? If so, do you also know from what region it was from? There are variations on African lion size throughout the continent, some areas having history of having larger specimens than others.

Also, the man who mentioned the print and measured it was studying the usual Kamchatka bears there for two years. Its presumable he would know the regular size of prints left by Kamchatka bears, even if he was a poor tracker. Well, presuming the prints were distinct.

Of course, the rules I mentioned above apply to the supposed Bergman bear print as well, but we don't know those circumstances sadly. Although I'm fairly certain that the soil and ground composition is very different from that of the African savannah. African territories are typically hard packed dry sand, and don't hold shape well. But this of course changes from region to region. The same applies to everywhere else.

Although, just for comparison, here is a print form a Kamchatka brown bear, just for us to get an idea of typical size. http://www.lbl.gov/Science-Articles/Archive/assets/images/2003/Jul-28-2003/Bear_paw.jpg

And in here is another, which heavily implies is much larger than the usual, but not freakishly so. http://www.cokesmithphototravel.com/amazing-kamchatka.html

I'm not sure who thinks that there is a weird black dog, mammoth thing here. Bergman's Bear is just a cryptid bear. Not bloody hard.

I hope this has been of some help.

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I believe there is a good chance of a large bear sub-species in Kamchatka. 8a4.jpg

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I believe there is a good chance of a large bear sub-species in Kamchatka. 8a4.jpg

They evidence is scant, to say the least. For a population of regular unknown bears to exist in Kamchatka, I would expect many more sightings and prints.

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They evidence is scant, to say the least. For a population of regular unknown bears to exist in Kamchatka, I would expect many more sightings and prints.

Not if the species is in an extinction spiral :0

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Not if the species is in an extinction spiral :0

There's no reason for a species of bear in a remote forested peninsula to either:

(i) Not be seen by occasional hunters, either the tracks or by sight

(ii) Be in an 'extinction spiral' since they aren't being shot by hunters or predated by anything else

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Be in an 'extinction spiral' since they aren't being shot by hunters or predated by anything else

Plenty of species go extinct without human help.

Climatic changes. Slowly being out competed by the more numerous common brown bears (despite the size of the area, large bears need HUGE territories). Disease. All coupled with low reproduction rates that bears usually have and you have all you need for an extinction spiral. ;)

not be seen by occasional hunters, either the tracks or by sight

Three points - a, much of that area has been restricted access for ages

b - there have been a few apparent sightings

c - for all we know, the bear that provided the hide was the last of its kind (i hope not!) - or inversely, (this would be ironic), it could have been the first (and because it was shot, last) of its kind. Maybe it was a mutation, that had it been passed on, would have led to a new subspecies of bears :o

Edited by Bavarian Raven

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