Join the Unexplained Mysteries community today! It's free and setting up an account only takes a moment.
- Sign In or Create Account -
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 1
and then

Israel Releases Prisoners (Again)

73 posts in this topic

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-57598359/israel-releases-26-palestinian-prisoners-ahead-of-peace-talks/

The Palestinians are welcoming them home as heroes. Netanyahu isn't releasing all 110 or so immediately - they are to be released in groups IF there is "progress" in the negotiations. Makes me wonder how long Abbas will play this game before he walks away and starts the next Intifada. Oh, and BTW.... the Palestinians reciprocated by - just agreeing to talk, nothing more.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well by many peoples' standards the Israelis are the aggressors, so them making the "bigger gesture" makes sense.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well by many peoples' standards the Israelis are the aggressors, so them making the "bigger gesture" makes sense.

Even if that were true - and of course I dispute it - in every past negotiation it has always fallen to Israel to be the one who makes the gesture. In every case - ALWAYS. I resent that they are even having to talk. The Palestinians will receive freed prisoners and other compensation and the Israelis will face the same threats with little or no cessation of violence against them. The premise of any peace between these two peoples is ludicrous as long as Palestinian and other Muslim children are taught the virulent language of hatred for Jews. The bottom line for these folks is that they want -DEMAND - that Israel disappear. They do not change that demand, ever. So what point is there in negotiating? EGO is all I see.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The point in negotiation And Then, is attempting to end the bloodshed.

It is not wrong in the middle of a bloody conflict where you an your enemy are suffering to say "we're ready to stop, are you?". Israel does that by sending POWs back. It takes moral courage to say "we want peace and we're willing to strengthen you to get it".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The point in negotiation And Then, is attempting to end the bloodshed.

It is not wrong in the middle of a bloody conflict where you an your enemy are suffering to say "we're ready to stop, are you?". Israel does that by sending POWs back. It takes moral courage to say "we want peace and we're willing to strengthen you to get it".

Yes and in other circumstances I'd agree wholeheartedly. Do YOU actually believe the Palestinian leadership want peace? Both parties were dragged to the table through threats. Does this seem like a tenable situation to you? What I see is Israel weakening itself for no real reason. No one will give them any credit for the act. They will be blamed if it fails - no matter the reality and when the killing begins anew they will be blamed for that also. You are a rational person - can you not see the truth in what I'm saying?
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can see that, but I can also see the reports of hundreds of new houses etc being built by the Israelis in "contested" areas which will only serve to fuel the fire rather then cool it.

You can't say "we want peace" and go on doing the exact things that 'the enemy' is using as justification.

You're right the Palestinians won't rest until the Israelis are dead. But if they actually want the international community to aid them rather then condemn them then they need to stop being one of the bad guys! Israel goes to the table, says all the right things, does all the right things and then is attacked again then ... maybe the UN will go "yeah, you were right all along". So what does Israel lose by freeing the prisoners? Potentially everything, but they lose nothing other then 'face' in a country that hates them anyway.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well by many peoples' standards the Israelis are the aggressors, so them making the "bigger gesture" makes sense.

The "many people" being the islamists and the leftist loonies who have bought into the islamist narrative, hook, line, and sinker.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You're right the Palestinians won't rest until the Israelis are dead.

Jews are also "Palestinians". The term "Palestinian" to describe only the Arab population of the area is a cheap, but alas successful linguistic trick invented by the PLO in the 70s.

Alas, our media have bought into it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The "many people" being the islamists and the leftist loonies who have bought into the islamist narrative, hook, line, and sinker.

and the people who think invading someone else's country and taking land willy-nilly is naughty obviously.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

and the people who think invading someone else's country and taking land willy-nilly is naughty obviously.

Nobody "invaded" anybody`s land is "taking land nilly willy". Except the so-called "Palestinians" aka muslim Arabs would do that in a minute to Israel if given the chance.

I am really getting fed up with these islamist talking points and how people are swallowing them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

... the Palestinians reciprocated by - just agreeing to talk, nothing more.

...and the only thing that they are willing to talk about is more concessions by Israel, anyway. Making even a small one themselves, such as ditching the demand for a Capital in Jerusalem, for the total ethnic cleansing of the West Bank, or even just for accepting Israel`s right to exist? Forget it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nobody "invaded" anybody`s land is "taking land nilly willy". Except the so-called "Palestinians" aka muslim Arabs would do that in a minute to Israel if given the chance.

I am really getting fed up with these islamist talking points and how people are swallowing them.

So the Israelis aren't building houses on land outside of the established borders of Israel?

EXCELLENT! That is good news. Because the way that stuff like that is being reported here in Oz just makes Israel look bad.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

http://www.cbsnews.c...of-peace-talks/

The Palestinians are welcoming them home as heroes. Netanyahu isn't releasing all 110 or so immediately - they are to be released in groups IF there is "progress" in the negotiations. Makes me wonder how long Abbas will play this game before he walks away and starts the next Intifada. Oh, and BTW.... the Palestinians reciprocated by - just agreeing to talk, nothing more.

How very selfless of the Israeli's. But ofcourse, they are known around the world for their relentless self sacrifice in favor of (world) peace. Yessir, peace is on their minds, always.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/middle-east-peace-talks-tension-flares-as-israel-authorises-new-west-bank-settlements-8756462.html

Sending home some of the worst the Palestinians had to offer while green lighting more West Bank settlements.

Nothing wrong with that I'd say.

:mellow:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So the Israelis aren't building houses on land outside of the established borders of Israel?

EXCELLENT! That is good news. Because the way that stuff like that is being reported here in Oz just makes Israel look bad.

Oh please spare us that old, tired slogan about about the evil settlements in the West Bank. International diplomacy does not have a replay button, but if it did, the parties could look back at history and see that Israeli settlements are not only legitimate under international law, but positively encouraged. The basic relevant provision, the League of Nation 1922 British Mandate for Palestine Article 6 encourages "close settlement of the Jews on the land, including state lands and waste lands not required for public use". Most Israeli settlements in the West Bank have been built on land that was state land under the Ottomans, British, Jordanians, and after the 1967 war, or on property that has been privately purchased.

And the existing Israeli settlements would not even be an issue if the PA (aka the PLO) was interested in a peaceful neighbourly co-existance with Israel. In that case, the Jews could simply live in the new PA state, under the protection of the law like every other citizen. But no, the PA demands the complete ethnic cleansing of all the Jews of the their land, Nazi style.

And we have see how that brings "peace" to Israel, if it actually does that, as it did in the Gazah strip. Israel removed all Jewish settlements from the strip (some of them actually preceding the existance of Israel itself by 1000 years). Did that buy Israel peace, or did it buy a barrage of Katsusha rockets and permanent terrrorist attacks?

I am REALLY getting tired of well-meaing but ill-informed Westerners gobbling up that islamist propaganda. The Jihad against Israel is NOT an issue about some spots of land.

As if islamists could care about that.... when is the last time you saw any muslim activist getting upset about the oppression of Kurds, who are denied their own state in not one but 4 islamic countries? Hm? No, I can´t recall that either.

Edited by Zaphod222

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You're citing 1922 laws from a defunct organization?

Bravo.

However, you're right that the PLO wants nothing more then the extinction of Israel. However, who owned the land in the past is immaterial to who owns the land now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When Abbas walks away (my guess is next month) and the Palestinians go to the UN again pressing for the next step toward statehood then the murderers of innocents in Israel will be walking in freedom and laughing. Only I doubt they do it in public - the MOSSAD isn't a civilized opponent. The older I get the more it bewilders me the stance the whole world takes at this one small country. So small it should be geographically and politically just a footnote to world affairs, it takes up more attention than continents. It was all foretold yet no one believes that, while at the same time having no real answer for WHY this is so. The disconnect is amazing to me.

Ezekiel 38 and 39 explain a miraculous saving of Israel at a time when the country itself cannot defend against all the powerful enemies that will come against it. When people hear of this prophecy they laugh, thinking it's a fable but if they bothered to read the 2 chapters just before 38,39 they would see that THESE things came true in the 20th century. Oh well.... I guess when the laughing stops it will just be replaced by worse things.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When Abbas walks away (my guess is next month) and the Palestinians go to the UN again pressing for the next step toward statehood then the murderers of innocents in Israel will be walking in freedom and laughing. Only I doubt they do it in public - the MOSSAD isn't a civilized opponent. The older I get the more it bewilders me the stance the whole world takes at this one small country. So small it should be geographically and politically just a footnote to world affairs, it takes up more attention than continents. It was all foretold yet no one believes that, while at the same time having no real answer for WHY this is so. The disconnect is amazing to me.

Ezekiel 38 and 39 explain a miraculous saving of Israel at a time when the country itself cannot defend against all the powerful enemies that will come against it. When people hear of this prophecy they laugh, thinking it's a fable but if they bothered to read the 2 chapters just before 38,39 they would see that THESE things came true in the 20th century. Oh well.... I guess when the laughing stops it will just be replaced by worse things.

It attracts attention because its borders were unilaterally decided, controls a religious nexus while occupying and surpressing a native people like they were sub- human. Not unlike their own plight in the second world war.

Tell me, which 'powerful enemy' would you have in mind.. Iran? Hezbollah?

You must also think the sequentially toppled and destabilized, fragment- ready ME nations are completely unrelated to eachother. Just a result of the given circumstances..

That the attack on Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria, subsequently trying everything to initiate a confrontation with Iran, are not part of a geo- political strategy fomented by the movers and shakers of the Western hemisphere..

And that this geo-politcal strategy does not include Israel's interests; to fragment and practically destroy all surrounding ME nations who could potentially pose a threat to the desired Israeli hegemony in the region.

I am just as pro Jewish as the next - my family helped the Jewish fellow man during the second world war at grave risk of losing their lives in the process - this has no bearing on being critical towards an Israeli political entity though.

The present day state of Israel has very, very little to do with the Biblical / Thorean Israel and / or Israelites. To blindly defend her political actions because of its feigned religious connotations is unwise and irrational.

This Israeli political entity belongs to those that rule this earth, and there is absolutely nothing holy about it. I would even say, to the contrary.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It attracts attention because its borders were unilaterally decided, controls a religious nexus while occupying and surpressing a native people like they were sub- human. Not unlike their own plight in the second world war.

Tell me, which 'powerful enemy' would you have in mind.. Iran? Hezbollah?

You must also think the sequentially toppled and destabilized, fragment- ready ME nations are completely unrelated to eachother. Just a result of the given circumstances..

That the attack on Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria, subsequently trying everything to initiate a confrontation with Iran, are not part of a geo- political strategy fomented by the movers and shakers of the Western hemisphere..

And that this geo-politcal strategy does not include Israel's interests; to fragment and practically destroy all surrounding ME nations who could potentially pose a threat to the desired Israeli hegemony in the region.

I am just as pro Jewish as the next - my family helped the Jewish fellow man during the second world war at grave risk of losing their lives in the process - this has no bearing on being critical towards an Israeli political entity though.

The present day state of Israel has very, very little to do with the Biblical / Thorean Israel and / or Israelites. To blindly defend her political actions because of its feigned religious connotations is unwise and irrational.

This Israeli political entity belongs to those that rule this earth, and there is absolutely nothing holy about it. I would even say, to the contrary.

Powerful enemies like Russia, Turkey and Iran. I don't condone or support the illegal actions that Israel takes part in. I DO point out the double standards they are subjected to simply because people still hate Jews irrationally. That hatred is set to rebound and cause huge problems in the world - probably very soon. And when that happens all the whining and yelling in the world isn't going to matter. If the nations would grow the hell up, allow them to have this TINY piece of land and live without being attacked from all sides then maybe the chaos could be avoided but they won't so it's just a matter of time. So be it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Powerful enemies like Russia, Turkey and Iran. I don't condone or support the illegal actions that Israel takes part in. I DO point out the double standards they are subjected to simply because people still hate Jews irrationally. That hatred is set to rebound and cause huge problems in the world - probably very soon. And when that happens all the whining and yelling in the world isn't going to matter. If the nations would grow the hell up, allow them to have this TINY piece of land and live without being attacked from all sides then maybe the chaos could be avoided but they won't so it's just a matter of time. So be it.

Why you would think any considerable number of people 'still hate the Jews irrationally' is beyond me. This is what extremely subjective, blindsided zionists will tell you when the international critique of Israel's politics is mentioned. "These criticasters are in effect ardent nazi's who use Palestine to vent their anti Semetic tendencies against us." No, these people are critisizing Israel simply because of her crimes against humanity. Nothing more, nothing less. It has NOTHING to do with these people being Jewish or not,

AB SO LUTELY NOTHING.

To even be able to convince onesself that this is primarily an 'irrational hate', born from a lingering anti semitism, is absolutely mindbending to me.

Talking about 'growing up', how about letting the Palestinians have their own state and quit colonizing the hell out of their land? Ever thought about that? I dont imagine you have. And thats the essence of the situation right there.

We have 'extremists' on both sides not even remotely able to view this situation in an objective manner. Israel was allowed to have this 'tiny piece of land', UNILATERALLY. Its flag was planted right smack in the middle of an Arab region, fed to grow from all sides (US/GB/Europe), was consequently seen as a threat by the Arab states (not unexpectedly, illogically - we would probably have done thesame in their place), attacked because of that, was helped by mainly US in this conflict, ultimately won, and decided to grasp more 'strategic land' as a consequence.

And it is now, as we speak, during these peacetalks, approving more colonization projects on land it is taking from the Palestinians. Which is absolutely typical.

Now imagine this happening in the States. Some all powerful political entity (lets take china for discussion's sake) decides unilaterally that a certain Mexican people has a right to the state of California as their land.

A nation is created without formal agreement from the USA constituants, hundreds of thousands of Mexicans flock to their new nation. The USA, with a underfunded and overspread military, decides to act but fails when China puts its weight in.

The Mexicans, with Chinese support, decide to take more land as a result of the military victory, saying "we need these geographical locations to function as strategical defensive positions. We are surrounded by the enemy."

As time goes by, again, with Chinese support, this new Mexican nation - planted right smack in the middle of the USA - starts building colonies in Nevada and Arizona. Being generally extremely hostile to the American inhabitants of said states,

even shooting American women and children from behind their mostly externally funded, newly build strongholds. Yelling supremacist profanities as they go along murdering mostly unarmed civilians.

Id bet you would passionately argue this being an unrightful and unacceptable situation. Even taking up arms to fight against these agressive, arrogant Mexicans.

This, is my point. Your judgement seems extremely clouded to me. Extremely subjective, and disassociated from any semblance of a sense of reality.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please also consider that Israeli's origins dont come from Israel itself

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why you would think any considerable number of people 'still hate the Jews irrationally' is beyond me. This is what extremely subjective, blindsided zionists will tell you when the international critique of Israel's politics is mentioned. "These criticasters are in effect ardent nazi's who use Palestine to vent their anti Semetic tendencies against us." No, these people are critisizing Israel simply because of her crimes against humanity. Nothing more, nothing less. It has NOTHING to do with these people being Jewish or not,

AB SO LUTELY NOTHING.

To even be able to convince onesself that this is primarily an 'irrational hate', born from a lingering anti semitism, is absolutely mindbending to me.

Talking about 'growing up', how about letting the Palestinians have their own state and quit colonizing the hell out of their land? Ever thought about that? I dont imagine you have. And thats the essence of the situation right there.

We have 'extremists' on both sides not even remotely able to view this situation in an objective manner. Israel was allowed to have this 'tiny piece of land', UNILATERALLY. Its flag was planted right smack in the middle of an Arab region, fed to grow from all sides (US/GB/Europe), was consequently seen as a threat by the Arab states (not unexpectedly, illogically - we would probably have done thesame in their place), attacked because of that, was helped by mainly US in this conflict, ultimately won, and decided to grasp more 'strategic land' as a consequence.

And it is now, as we speak, during these peacetalks, approving more colonization projects on land it is taking from the Palestinians. Which is absolutely typical.

Now imagine this happening in the States. Some all powerful political entity (lets take china for discussion's sake) decides unilaterally that a certain Mexican people has a right to the state of California as their land.

A nation is created without formal agreement from the USA constituants, hundreds of thousands of Mexicans flock to their new nation. The USA, with a underfunded and overspread military, decides to act but fails when China puts its weight in.

The Mexicans, with Chinese support, decide to take more land as a result of the military victory, saying "we need these geographical locations to function as strategical defensive positions. We are surrounded by the enemy."

As time goes by, again, with Chinese support, this new Mexican nation - planted right smack in the middle of the USA - starts building colonies in Nevada and Arizona. Being generally extremely hostile to the American inhabitants of said states,

even shooting American women and children from behind their mostly externally funded, newly build strongholds. Yelling supremacist profanities as they go along murdering mostly unarmed civilians.

Id bet you would passionately argue this being an unrightful and unacceptable situation. Even taking up arms to fight against these agressive, arrogant Mexicans.

This, is my point. Your judgement seems extremely clouded to me. Extremely subjective, and disassociated from any semblance of a sense of reality.

Your answer is for Israel to disappear. It's never going to happen and eventually a global war is going to be the result of people who demand it. Only fools would push a nuclear power into such a corner that they felt the need to use them. But that's what's coming eventually. All the rest of this rhetoric is just bull****. Other nations have done FAR WORSE and are given a pass. Yet this tiny state of about 7 million is the focus of the entire freakin' world - and you don't think that's unusual at all...and you - of course - are NOT anti semitic, oh no..... all I can say is that when the SHTF, crying and moaning about it is going to do NOTHING. The time to try and make a difference is BEFORE they get pushed into the corner.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It seems there is some static on the line here, on your end. "Your answer is for Israel to disappear.." Thats just crazy talk, seriously.

In any other case, congratulations on completely & utterly missing the point in an unprecedented manner.

..Which in fact confirms my earlier comments. Some people are just so fanatical (in this case in their defense of this nation) a rational debate is quite simply impossible.

Keep on playing your record sir.

Edited by Phaeton80

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It seems there is some static on the line here, on your end. "Your answer is for Israel to disappear.." Thats just crazy talk, seriously.

In any other case, congratulations on completely & utterly missing the point in an unprecedented manner.

..Which in fact confirms my earlier comments. Some people are just so fanatical (in this case in their defense of this nation) a rational debate is quite simply impossible.

Keep on playing your record sir.

My record is simple logic - the fact that you reject it does not invalidate it. IF Israel gave the Palestinian leadership everything they want then Israel would cease to exist. This is not blind Zionistic rhetoric, it is logic - demonstrable from historic precedent - Gaza, southern Lebanon... both cases the Palestinians were appeased - both situations led to further attacks. The Palestinians daily teach Jew hatred in their schools and have children study maps that NOWHERE acknowledge a Jewish state. How you or anyone else can't see (or ignore) these facts is mind bending to ME. The Palis want what they perceive to be their land back - ALL THE LAND. The issue isn't the SIZE of a Jewish state, it's the EXISTENCE of a Jewish state. Only fools refuse to see this and the implications that it creates for all of us. War is coming because of this. Possibly quite soon now. It will start in or because of this conflict and the world is going to burn and when it's over the Jews will still be in Israel. Not nearly as many...but they'll still be there. I can say this (sadly but confidently) because the Bible proclaims it in terms so clear as to be unmistakable. All the nations that have tried to seize or help others to seize this land will be badly damaged because of those attempts - and that includes the US. That last point will no doubt be laughed off but the laughing is soon to stop and I will take no pleasure in the wailing that will replace it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My record is simple logic - the fact that you reject it does not invalidate it. IF Israel gave the Palestinian leadership everything they want then Israel would cease to exist. This is not blind Zionistic rhetoric, it is logic - demonstrable from historic precedent - Gaza, southern Lebanon... both cases the Palestinians were appeased - both situations led to further attacks. The Palestinians daily teach Jew hatred in their schools and have children study maps that NOWHERE acknowledge a Jewish state. How you or anyone else can't see (or ignore) these facts is mind bending to ME. The Palis want what they perceive to be their land back - ALL THE LAND. The issue isn't the SIZE of a Jewish state, it's the EXISTENCE of a Jewish state. Only fools refuse to see this and the implications that it creates for all of us. War is coming because of this. Possibly quite soon now. It will start in or because of this conflict and the world is going to burn and when it's over the Jews will still be in Israel. Not nearly as many...but they'll still be there. I can say this (sadly but confidently) because the Bible proclaims it in terms so clear as to be unmistakable. All the nations that have tried to seize or help others to seize this land will be badly damaged because of those attempts - and that includes the US. That last point will no doubt be laughed off but the laughing is soon to stop and I will take no pleasure in the wailing that will replace it.

So it's ok to take away the land of and treat the Palestinian people who have lived on their land and villages for many generations like a sub human?

Is your solution either one cannot exist with the other peacefully? Is that the true ultimatum?

I think you are failing to see what the real people in these countries want and instead focus too much on the desires of the extremists.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My record is simple logic - the fact that you reject it does not invalidate it. IF Israel gave the Palestinian leadership everything they want then Israel would cease to exist. This is not blind Zionistic rhetoric, it is logic - demonstrable from historic precedent - Gaza, southern Lebanon... both cases the Palestinians were appeased - both situations led to further attacks. The Palestinians daily teach Jew hatred in their schools and have children study maps that NOWHERE acknowledge a Jewish state. How you or anyone else can't see (or ignore) these facts is mind bending to ME. The Palis want what they perceive to be their land back - ALL THE LAND. The issue isn't the SIZE of a Jewish state, it's the EXISTENCE of a Jewish state. Only fools refuse to see this and the implications that it creates for all of us. War is coming because of this. Possibly quite soon now. It will start in or because of this conflict and the world is going to burn and when it's over the Jews will still be in Israel. Not nearly as many...but they'll still be there. I can say this (sadly but confidently) because the Bible proclaims it in terms so clear as to be unmistakable. All the nations that have tried to seize or help others to seize this land will be badly damaged because of those attempts - and that includes the US. That last point will no doubt be laughed off but the laughing is soon to stop and I will take no pleasure in the wailing that will replace it.

So what do you expect for G*ds sake?! These people have been opressed and surpressed for decades, their houses pillaged, their CIVILIAN fathers, mothers and children have been killed - either by gunfire, airassaults {ie. phosphor / chemical attacks, recently marked as a 'red line' in context of the new target Syria - remember that?} or tankbarrages. You would expect there would not be schools or other public entities whom teach hate??! This is pure CAUSALITY. Action, reaction. You expect these people to praise the Israeli opressor? Is that what we need to take away from your posts?

Before the Zionist regime firmly took hold, the Palestinians and Israeli's were babysitting eachother's children. This supposed intrinsical and 'natural born hate' towards 'the Jew' is just plain BS. It is, as a rule, CAUSAL. Where there are always exceptions to such a rule (margin), but your argument implies this is the standard. Nonsensical 'my memory doesnt go back more than 6 months' poppycock.

And to pose allowing the Palestinians to form their own nation would be the end of Israel is, again, exactly what a zionist fanatical would argue. Very convenient position isnt it? Its utter bs, only to legitimize the status quo situation and allowing Israel to keep doing what they are doing. Stealing other people's land (ie. 'colonists').

Look, this isnt going anywhere anytime soon, I think it would be wise to not continue this talk of ours. I think we both have a complete picture of eachother's 'disposition'.

Be well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 1

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.