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Erroneous scientific studies: Religious peopl

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Erroneous scientific studies: Religious people are less intelligent than atheists

In America Rochester's university has been made scientific studies and analysis led by Professor Miron Zuckerman, which claims that religious people are less intelligent than non-believers. Journal of Personality and Social Psychology Review published a summary for this scientific study. When I researched this study, so on my mind arose many thoughts that prove this scientific study as the provocation of atheism in which they show their contempt to the certain group of the people. On my writing, I also bring out some thoughts about the article of Knoxnews.

The whole article is in my site: http://www.kotipetripaavola.com/religiouspeopleandatheists.html

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Posted (edited)

Ridiculous, all my christian friends are alot smarter than my non Christian friends. altho the best schools in my area are christian ones and theres so many atheists who pretend to be believers in church for a few weeks so they can enroll. i only started to enjoy learning when i became a christian, and have read 6 times the amount of books that i read through out my life in the four short years of being a christian. One of my friends is training to be an aerospace engineer, another is at university doing maths that goes over my head. another is training to be a teacher, another is a biology teacher, the list goes on.............

thats just career wise, hobbies include learning classical greek ( koine), other foreign languages, music theory at level four and above.

Edited by Armchair Educated

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A spurious and inflammatory piece of pseudo-journalism.

A belief in a deity is not a sign of lack of, nor of a surplus of, intelligence. Faith in a religion is for the comfort and sense of security for the believer.

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I know through my own experience, that some religions are more scientific then others. I generally see Christian to be one of the least scientific; mainly because in its mainstream form it has lost its original esoteric form. The more ancient a faith system is, the more that faith system makes the most sense. More ancient faiths go pretty well with science EVEN when proving Gods existence.

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Ridiculous, all my christian friends are alot smarter than my non Christian friends. altho the best schools in my area are christian ones and theres so many atheists who pretend to be believers in church for a few weeks so they can enroll. i only started to enjoy learning when i became a christian, and have read 6 times the amount of books that i read through out my life in the four short years of being a christian. One of my friends is training to be an aerospace engineer, another is at university doing maths that goes over my head. another is training to be a teacher, another is a biology teacher, the list goes on.............

thats just career wise, hobbies include learning classical greek ( koine), other foreign languages, music theory at level four and above.

Just as I try to warn my atheist friends, I'd also try to caution you, personal experience can not be generalised out to an entire population. Numerous studies have shown that atheists score higher in intelligence on average. This is just the latest one, and we see the religious trying to counter this with a variety of hand waving.

Now, in my opinion this has more to do with numbers. There are far more religious people than atheists, and therefore you have a smaller sample sized compared to the religious.

Take into account that unlike the general population, scientists and intellectuals are more likely to be non-religious (or non-conventionally religious, in the sense their religious beliefs, no matter what label they claim, do not match the general dogma among the lay members or of it's church.

Looking at the smaller sample size and the higher proportion of intellectuals, when in comparison to the public, it's not a suprise that atheists tend to have higher intelligence than religious people.

Now, we can argue about personal experiences, and if you want I can provide far more personal experience with highly educated atheists, and poorly educated theists, but I can also point to very stupid atheists and intelligent theists. (Admittedly my bias is far more to one than the other.)

And with this we have to remember again, Christians make up something like 73% of the overall population of the US, while atheists generally bounce around 1-3%, depending on how the numbers are represented. The actual population is probably higher, but gets confused depending on how they exactly identify.

So simply due to numbers, you are going to encounter more theists than atheists in any particular field of study up to a certain level of education, where the numbers sharply decline on the religious side and increase on the atheist side.

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I dont think they are less intelligent, just less well informed

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Erroneous scientific studies: Religious people are less intelligent than atheists

In America Rochester's university has been made scientific studies and analysis led by Professor Miron Zuckerman, which claims that religious people are less intelligent than non-believers. Journal of Personality and Social Psychology Review published a summary for this scientific study. When I researched this study, so on my mind arose many thoughts that prove this scientific study as the provocation of atheism in which they show their contempt to the certain group of the people. On my writing, I also bring out some thoughts about the article of Knoxnews.

The whole article is in my site: http://www.kotipetri...ndatheists.html

Without even reading the article, I know already that it is a waste of time. To try to construct a correlation between intelligence and religionism is absurd, for too many reasons to list here.

More waste of research grants.

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More waste of research grants.

I don't have access to the paper itself, but seeing as it's a meta-analysis of studies already conducted (which all came to the same conclusion, it should be noted), this was probably the work of the researches themselves and not needing grant money.

Speaking of personal experiences, everytime I've seen someone complain about grant money on this forum it's concerning studies that were privately funded.

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Posted (edited)

What's the point of this study anyway? What higher purpose of humanity does it serve? It seems to me that this sort of thing is merely to start fires, trolling in its highest form.

Seriously we can't get along if we keep poking each other. When the hell will people get it?

Edited by DecoNoir
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What's the point of this study anyway? What higher purpose of humanity does it serve? It seems to me that this sort of thing is merely to start fires, trolling in its highest form.

Seriously we can't get along if we keep poking each other. When the hell will people get it?

what factors encourage belief, how cna one's intelligence shape their world view, how does the brain work, how do different people tick. Which fits under thenjournal they were published in.

Just from my own understandings of the findings, I don't think the conclusiin should be theist tend to be stupid, but rather that atheist tend to be inteligent.

By which I mean atheists are a subset of one category, whereas religious people make up up the general population.

Also, it is one am and I am still at work, so if my post rambles, take that as a reason.

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what factors encourage belief, how cna one's intelligence shape their world view, how does the brain work, how do different people tick. Which fits under thenjournal they were published in.

Just from my own understandings of the findings, I don't think the conclusiin should be theist tend to be stupid, but rather that atheist tend to be inteligent.

By which I mean atheists are a subset of one category, whereas religious people make up up the general population.

Also, it is one am and I am still at work, so if my post rambles, take that as a reason.

Don't worry about it. Your worst rambles tend to be better than my best statements.

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Don't worry about it. Your worst rambles tend to be better than my best statements.

Doubtful, I have a habit of going into comic book rants.

Really, if you want to tick people off I'd point to the studies showing that countries with hifgher religiousity have a higher degree of violence and other social ills.

Theists tend to cite American studies that show atheists have lower mental health rates than theists, the problem there being that atheists are a distrusted minority in the US and have less access to community and support structures that are provided by religious communities. But this is limited to the US, similar studies where atheism is simply accepted and doesn't run the risk of social isolation that problem disappears.

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Unfortunately, there are different types of intelligence, such that what works in one setting (such as an urban environment) will not be advantageous in another (such as a wilderness area).

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Unfortunately, there are different types of intelligence, such that what works in one setting (such as an urban environment) will not be advantageous in another (such as a wilderness area).

The weren't looking at things like urban versus wilderness, but things like analytical and logical thought. Which you'd want in most scenarios. Being able to figure out where the deer went by analuzing it's spoor requires similar thinking skills as deduxing the decay rate of a particle.

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I did not ready the specifics of the study, but haveing a larger sample size of one group statistically will drift the average scores to the center of a bell curve, while the other especially atheists will have larger proportion of higher education. I don't need a study to say that on average atheists will score higher on intelligence tests. Most atheists come to atheism through education.

Religionists and atheists should note that this does not mean there are more intelligent atheists than religionists. The bulk of of religionists merely pull the curve back to an average. Even a random sampling of the same number of participants in each group would still result in a greater likely hood of pulling from the center of the curve of the larger group. Now with that said most people come to atheism by questioning things.. I have no problem with seeing the curve leaning forward on the atheist side.

I would like a study comparinging those who consider themselves spiritual but not religious with atheist. That would be interesting. Most people that are very solid in their spiritual but none religious beliefs went through an atheism phase.

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I did not ready the specifics of the study, but haveing a larger sample size of one group statistically will drift the average scores to the center of a bell curve, while the other especially atheists will have larger proportion of higher education. I don't need a study to say that on average atheists will score higher on intelligence tests. Most atheists come to atheism through education.

Religionists and atheists should note that this does not mean there are more intelligent atheists than religionists. The bulk of of religionists merely pull the curve back to an average. Even a random sampling of the same number of participants in each group would still result in a greater likely hood of pulling from the center of the curve of the larger group. Now with that said most people come to atheism by questioning things.. I have no problem with seeing the curve leaning forward on the atheist side.

I would like a study comparinging those who consider themselves spiritual but not religious with atheist. That would be interesting. Most people that are very solid in their spiritual but none religious beliefs went through an atheism phase.

Mostly what I said, and I agree. Though since I already mentioned personal experience, my counter experience is most atheist drifted to atheism from spiritual beliefs.

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In Australia, 3-out-of-4 adults who regularly attend church have a university degree (or are currently studying for a degree). This is worth noting because as a whole, only 1-out-of-4 Australian adults have university education. So if you meet a church-going Australian they are three times more likely to have university education than a randomly selected Australian.

Note- this figure does NOT imply 75% of Christian adults are university educated. 60% of Australians identify as Christian, but only 2% of the population regularly attends church. The figure is about church attendees. Maybe university graduates enjoy reading and studying and so a Christian who's been to university might find studying the Bible and listening to the lecturer (aka, the preacher) more appealing than a person who can't stand reading.

Still, church attendance is an important aspect to a Christian life, and the stats in Australia are pretty interesting in that vein.

Edited by Paranoid Android

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(as usual, I am tying on a small netbook and just refuse out of pure stuborness to go back and correct spelling and grammar errors.. one day I will get out of the poor house and be able to afford a laptop that is bigger and easier to use)

Yanno, my take on the 'smarts' of a person when it comes to religion v/s atheism is way different then everyone elses.

For me it has to do with following.

Many Christians out there 'follow' what they are TOLD by those the percieve as being in charge within their faith.

I work for a publishing company, I remember when it came out that Dumbledor was 'Gay' in Harry Potter, and of course there were outcries of 'witchery' in the book.

I would get in a habit of saying 'have you read at least the first book or any one of the books', and I would say that 10 times out fo 10, those people calling to condemn the books told me 'no'. They were 'told' by their paster, or they were 'told' by close friends who are christians, or the 'read' in their church news letter, or they 'heard on tv'..

And I promise you, the majority then would claim 'I am a christian and I do not want my children exposed to such evil'. (or thereabouts)

They are not those I would consider 'intellegent'. They are ignorant people who follow, and are seemingly unable to actually think enough for themselves to actually come up with the courage to read ONE of the books to see if it teaches magic to the children (which it did not) or really showed Dumbledor as Gay (which it did not). Homosexuality was never even IN the books that one could see.

You see this in other things as well, I just gave the one that I remember personally as I experienced and dealt with some of these people.

Atheist can be the same as well. Well Dawkins says.. Hitchens said.. Sagan said.. et et et.

I may say that I admire Sagan, Asimov, Neil Degrasse Tyson, et et, inspired me to think beyond the bounderies others placed around me, but I am not an atheist BECAUSE of them, I am an atheist because of my own studies, my own 'feelings' inside me that we call 'instinct' or 'gut feelings'.

Want to know something silly and perhaps childish? Doctor Who. I love that show, really seriously I do.. and sometimes when I watch it and they are dealing with missing planets.. or black holes, and I actually look at the graphics of it, then I go through you tube and look at nasa vids, or I look up at the sky.. the UNIVERSE.. planets, stars, black holes, suns.. cosmic storms and the birth of stars in our solar system..

THEY made me atheist more than any human ever could have. I do not watch as much tv as many would assume when you know the shows I love, but the shows I love are often themed around 'space'. or futuristic things, science fiction.

ALL those things cause me to feel deep deep in the very core of my mind that I am atheist. And instead of fear, I feel a sense of 'wonder', a feeling lf lust for more knowledge where I do not need to be confined in a box of teachings from an old book written by to many people and retranslated to many times to where even the traditions of the people can and is taken out of context.

So for me, No one is smarter then the other just because they have a belief or non belief.

But in my mind, those who have minds that are confined in a box and aims their thoughts and beliefs around what their 'leader' says.. (and yes, even among the atheist.. they speak of dawkins and others almost as reverent and true to form as christians will speak of the words of jesus or some preacher).. are the ones who show less smarts then the ones who literally fly the worlds within earth and outside of earth... forming their own opinions and point of views.

Someone can inspire me and cause me to look in a direction, but I am the only one who can open my eyes and see something there.

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Have they even defined the terms "religious", "atheist", and "intelligence"? All of them are debatable and open to manipulation.

Here in Japan, I note that most of followers of the homicidal "Aum Shinrikyo" religion (which is now sensibly banned) were intellectuals with high degrees from good universities.

Anecdotal evidence of course, but still..... since I could have been on the train they gassed, it is kind of personal.

High IQ in one area does not protect you from blithering stupidity in another, alas.

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Edit db

Edited by ShadowSot

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Well, you coukd read the study where they go into how they defined intelligence. Or an earlier post where I indicated part of what they looked at was analytical and logical thinking, not so much university degrees. But if you woukd rather call it a waste of grant money (when as far as I can tell little to no grant money went into it) or speculate about how the determine jntelligence when they lay it out in the study (found it on scribd, I'd link it but can't post a link, it comes up easy on search.) Then I really can't see the point of trying to discuss the study with you.

Edit: spelling

Edited by ShadowSot

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Is that peer reviewed study? I doubt Newton was less intelligent.

Big Bad Voodoo

Edited by Big Bad Voodoo

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How do they define atheism? E.g. Buddhism is a religion that does not believe in a god. So would a Buddhist count as a religionist or an atheist?

Man made Global Warming is a set of irrational beliefs which acts as a religion and is argued by the believers like religion (e.g. the disbelievers are attacked with religious fervor). Would that count as religion in the study or not?

I could go on...

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How do they define atheism? E.g. Buddhism is a religion that does not believe in a god. So would a Buddhist count as a religionist or an atheist?

Man made Global Warming is a set of irrational beliefs which acts as a religion and is argued by the believers like religion (e.g. the disbelievers are attacked with religious fervor). Would that count as religion in the study or not?

I could go on...

Religion does not need God.

Big Bad Voodoo

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How do they define atheism? E.g. Buddhism is a religion that does not believe in a god. So would a Buddhist count as a religionist or an atheist?

People who identified as atheist. Pretty simple. You could, again, actually read the study instead of trying to critic a strawman but I can see you're not interested.

Man made Global Warming is a set of irrational beliefs which acts as a religion and is argued by the believers like religion (e.g. the disbelievers are attacked with religious fervor). Would that count as religion in the study or not?

Climate change is as supported as evolution in terms of scientific acceptance, the only people who say otherwise are either paid by companies that'd be directly impacted if Climate change was true, religious fundamentalists, and political parties. The last two, it should be noted, are the same parties that deny evolution as a science most often.

Really, the denial of the facts is more a religion by your definition than the science itself.

I could go on...

I'm sure you can, however as it's clear your trying for rhetoric and non-sequitars instead of facts, good day to you.

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