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Still Waters

Frozen body: Can we return from the dead?

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The idea of preserving a person's body at very low temperatures in the hope that it will be restored by future medical technology has been a staple of science fiction. But could cryonics be a genuine way of being brought back to life, years into the future?

http://www.bbc.co.uk...ence/0/23695785

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i dont think so...even it can be unfroze slowly and carefully i doubt it will be like as it is. a same brain and a new body would be more possible i think... :whistle:

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Not unless you can find a way to prevent ice crystals from forming

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Agree with Wickian. Ice crystals rupture cells.

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Posted (edited)

Maybe a body or a brain could be somehow preserved at a temperature that is just a little above of that which allows the ice crystals to form? (just saying, i'm not an expert)

Edited by grc

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Watch Vanilla Sky and you will have your answer.

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Posted (edited)

Agree with Wickian. Ice crystals rupture cells.

It is my(unprofessional) understanding that a special, non-harmful "antifreeze", is utilized to help prevent cell rupture.

More importantly, though, and PLEASE read this, is that resuscitation after cryogenics HAS been done in lab rodents, BUT, the rodent was fully alive before the cryogenic procedure.

In other words, the resuscitation was only successful if the rodent was alive during "freezing"

Here's the problem:

In the U.S. at least, it is illegal to perform cryogenics on a living human being, as that is legally considered either murder or assisted suicide. Yet, according to the rodent studies, cryogenic resuscitation can only be successful if the animal is alive during the "freezing" procedure. A "catch-22"

A fully dead mouse, then frozen, has never been resuscitated, but the reverse is true for those mice frozen alive with the special injected antifreeze. BTW, the "safe" antifreeze is considered a major, critical advancement.

But the aspect of being "alive" during freezing is also considered to be of utmost importance.

How to get around the "legality", I don't know. Maybe a private facility.

Edited by pallidin
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I thought cellular destruction was a big problem with freezing and regeneration. Water is nearly unique among compounds in that it expands when frozen and becomes less dense, rather than contracting like most substances. Since our body is largely water, our cells rupture when frozen. This is one reason we are having trouble resurrecting the Mammoth, most of it's cells have been badly damaged from being frozen. To freeze an entire human, thaw it out and bring it back to life would be difficult indeed.

BTW if water did not become less dense upon freezing, ice would not float and our oceans would have frozen solid from the bottom up, making life on earth impossible.

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Like Pallidin said, I've heard that anti-freeze compounds have been developed that could help prevent the issue with ice crystal damage. That is why I believe we might one day use freezing, just like in various sci-fi movies to send people out into space.

I also agree that a already "dead" person is not going to be easy to resusitate since they are actually dead. The people that freeze just the head have the same issue. They'll have to hope that someone clones them a body, then resusitates their brain and then does a brain transplant. Does not seem likely to me.

It is not like people in the future will be like... "Oh, great, great, great, great grandfather needs twenty years of pay to have a cloned body and brain transplant? Oh, well... just can't afford that."

Unless the frozen body can keep wealth?? And use that to de-thaw....

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Not unless you can find a way to prevent ice crystals from forming

How do they freeze embryos, ovules and sperm without killing them?

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I once considered using cryonics if I could had the money for it, but if you believe in reincarnation this doesn't seem a good option: you'd be locked away for who knows how long if this was a success, instead of having a chance to be born again, or to move on. I wonder if pondering this will bring doubt to those considering freezing themselves, or will the will to keep whatever you wish to keep from this life prevail.

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How do they freeze embryos, ovules and sperm without killing them?

a) "A liquid called a cryoprotectant is added to protect the embryos during freezing."

or this... "A method of embryo storage has been developed called ‘vitrification’. This is a fast freeze process – the embryo undergoes instantaneous ‘glass-like’ solidification without the damaging formation of ice crystals (which can occur with the standard method of freezing)."

Source: http://www.hfea.gov.uk/1448.html

Edited by pallidin
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I once considered using cryonics if I could had the money for it, but if you believe in reincarnation this doesn't seem a good option: you'd be locked away for who knows how long if this was a success, instead of having a chance to be born again, or to move on. I wonder if pondering this will bring doubt to those considering freezing themselves, or will the will to keep whatever you wish to keep from this life prevail.

That might be a scary thought for those who are religious... If you are frozen before your spirit/soul/ka/magicsmoke goes whereever it is supposed to go, then is it trapped there? If you could be brought back to life, it would seem to suggest that it does. Or maybe that your spirit is yanked back into your body.

Imagine you're frozen and loaded onto a spaceship leaving for Andromeda at 1/10th of c. And the ship gets there in like 2 million years. And then the ship auto-wakes your body and BAM!!, you're back in your body after 2 million years in Heaven. :innocent: That would be Hell. :devil: If that happened you'd probably have a instance of 100% insanity upon waking from cryo.

Edited by DieChecker

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I don't think it would work if the person is already dead. Once you're dead, you don't usually come back. Being dead for a few hours even will degrade brain cells.

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a) "A liquid called a cryoprotectant is added to protect the embryos during freezing."

or this... "A method of embryo storage has been developed called ‘vitrification’. This is a fast freeze process – the embryo undergoes instantaneous ‘glass-like’ solidification without the damaging formation of ice crystals (which can occur with the standard method of freezing)."

Source: http://www.hfea.gov.uk/1448.html

Thanks!

I wonder if the above could be used in whole bodies to freeze them.

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my two cents: i never got why people pay huge amounts of money to get deep frozen after they're dead. first, they're (as said) DEAD, and there's no cure for that yet. Second, everybody who once thawed up stuff like frozen berrys knows that they turn to a mushy mess. Wouldn't that happen to your (dead) body as well?

I guess it's like a pasttime for rich folks with an enormous fear of death....

Getting stuffed or mummyfied, now THAT has style. But being frozen...nah. Costs too much energy.

Anyway, i read once that there are certain amphibians that produce a kind of natural anti freeze to protect their cells from being destroyed in cold times. they basically are able to completely get frozen in winter time and come back to life when it gets warmer again. If that could be applied to the human body somehow, maybe i would acknowledge the whole cryogenics thing a bit more....

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/02/070220-frog-antifreeze.html

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The question may be is it possible to recapture or bring alive the spirit or soul? After a long time of death? The answer of course is very debatable, especially with the plethora of religions and beliefs of an afterlife or what have you.

If the physical body could be brought back, what about the spirit or soul? If you believe they exist of course. If the soul was gone from the body and moved on... Could the physical body be inhabited by a new soul-a different one, or none at all. Crazy to think about.

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The question may be is it possible to recapture or bring alive the spirit or soul? After a long time of death? The answer of course is very debatable, especially with the plethora of religions and beliefs of an afterlife or what have you.

If the physical body could be brought back, what about the spirit or soul? If you believe they exist of course. If the soul was gone from the body and moved on... Could the physical body be inhabited by a new soul-a different one, or none at all. Crazy to think about.

whether the soul really exist or not, the most important part to be revived was the brain itself- if you want to be revived in the future they can clone another body for you...if ever they create another brain for you maybe it contains your late character but you will have no memories of your former self. ;)

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whether the soul really exist or not, the most important part to be revived was the brain itself- if you want to be revived in the future they can clone another body for you...if ever they create another brain for you maybe it contains your late character but you will have no memories of your former self. ;)

so whats the point of being revived if you are a different person anyway?

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That might be a scary thought for those who are religious... If you are frozen before your spirit/soul/ka/magicsmoke goes whereever it is supposed to go, then is it trapped there? If you could be brought back to life, it would seem to suggest that it does. Or maybe that your spirit is yanked back into your body.

Imagine you're frozen and loaded onto a spaceship leaving for Andromeda at 1/10th of c. And the ship gets there in like 2 million years. And then the ship auto-wakes your body and BAM!!, you're back in your body after 2 million years in Heaven. :innocent: That would be Hell. :devil: If that happened you'd probably have a instance of 100% insanity upon waking from cryo.

Well what cannot be helped, cannot be helped. At least you'd know better what might be on the other side(s).

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A quarter of a million dollars seems like a whole lot of money to throw away for a person to indulge himself/herself with fairy tale thinking to allay the fear of death. If the person has no heirs, or simply no one to whom he/she wants to give it, then I guess I say, fine, you can't use it anymore and you can't think of anything better to with it, so if you want to donate your life savings to some Charlatan, go ahead, I guess. Too bad the person won't give the money to a worthy charity instead, but whatever. I completely believe future societies will no doubt have amazing advances, the likes of which are primitive minds can't even conceive, including extending human life indefinitely. I see no possibility however that science will advance to the point to make it possible to restore life to a person who died hundreds of years ago and was frozen with the technology available at that time. I understand the fear of death...the unimaginable concept of non-existence for all of time, never to have a conscious thought ever again. I find the thought of this terrifying too. I have to assume the fans of cryogenics reject the possibility of an afterlife...heaven, if you prefer. But how can they see belief in an afterlife as hokum, yet put their money on a sci-fi dream like cryogenics? The concept is so absurd and outlandish, I can't fathom anyone taking it seriously. It's an obvious grasp at a fantom straw to escape the realization of their mortality. If it gives a dying person comfort to face death and the guy has the money, I guess I see no real harm. Who among us doesn't tell ourselves a few lies now and then to deny a reality we aren't ready to accept? I just find it obscene there are exploiters making millions on selling delusional people a fool's dream, and that it's legal.

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I can see the lure, but you'd be stuck in the past while the world has moved on. Cultural changes and all that. Oh, well. I guess you can get used to anything if you're exposed to it long enough.

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I can see the lure, but you'd be stuck in the past while the world has moved on. Cultural changes and all that. Oh, well. I guess you can get used to anything if you're exposed to it long enough.

If someone even goes away for 10 years now, they come back to a completely different environment. 20 years ago many computers were still using DOS commands only. Imagine a computer Geek being moved 20 years into the future and having to deal with the WWW and Windows 8, and all the dozens of download programs we need these days. He'd be completely lost.

Now imagine moving 1000 years into the future. It is probably beyong our actual ability to comprehend.

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Reading people's comments makes me think no one actually read the article.

Why pose questions that were clearly answered?

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Who knows? Maybe in a 1000 years a robot and lobster can revive them.

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