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Big Bad Voodoo

World's oldest temple built to worship

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Today, Sirius can be seen almost worldwide as the brightest star in the sky – excluding the sun – and the fourth brightest night-sky object after the moon, Venus and Jupiter. Sirius is so noticeable that its rising and setting was used as the basis for the ancient Egyptian calendar, says Magli. At the latitude of Göbekli Tepe, Sirius would have been below the horizon until around 9300 BC, when it would have suddenly popped into view.

"I propose that the temple was built to follow the 'birth' of this star," says Magli. "You can imagine that the appearance of a new object in the sky could even have triggered a new religion."

http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21929303.400-worlds-oldest-temple-built-to-worship-the-dog-star.html#.UhEcH5L3P_N

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I don't know,I'd have thought a temple to venerate something would have been something old not something new.

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I don't know,I'd have thought a temple to venerate something would have been something old not something new.

Besides, as I have already pointed out in another thread Sirius was perfectly visible, just a little removed from the place where you would expect it.

As far as the veneration of Sirius: it was predominant in agricultural societies as it is the only reliable calendar with a 365 day cycle we have on the firmament, therefore needed to determine the sowing and reaping times. That makes it very unlikely that the people of Gobeliki had anything to do with it. As far as we know at this point they were hunter-gatherers.

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Today, Sirius can be seen almost worldwide as the brightest star in the sky – excluding the sun – and the fourth brightest night-sky object after the moon, Venus and Jupiter. Sirius is so noticeable that its rising and setting was used as the basis for the ancient Egyptian calendar, says Magli. At the latitude of Göbekli Tepe, Sirius would have been below the horizon until around 9300 BC, when it would have suddenly popped into view.

"I propose that the temple was built to follow the 'birth' of this star," says Magli. "You can imagine that the appearance of a new object in the sky could even have triggered a new religion."

http://www.newscient...ml#.UhEcH5L3P_N

maybe it is...ancient people likely to build temples or structures to glorify heavenly bodies- like the sphinx represent the constellation of leo.

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maybe it is...ancient people likely to build temples or structures to glorify heavenly bodies- like the sphinx represent the constellation of leo.

With your apparent ability to divinely intuit the meaning of works and deeds of the ancients, I wonder why you're left posting here and not writing mass-market paperbacks with lurid blurbs...

--Jaylemurph

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The sphinx - Leo constellation connection is tenuous at best....the theory that Leo was on the horizon allowed pseudo scientist the lee-way to say the sphinx is much older than it is....in a nutshell they say if you rolled back the star charts to where the sphinx was looking at Leo on the horizon...it was like 10,000 BC or some nonsense....not happening...but nice try.

I am very interested in Gobekli Tepe...not for some mysterious, esoteric nonsense...but I personally think we are looking at the birthplace of civilization as we know it...masses of people working together toward a common goal. From the demand at the site, they developed agriculture and domestication of animals...I know that is a huge stretch and there is yet no evidence of it...but that is what I "think" we are seeing...it was because of the massive effort here that the need for these things rose (food and water) and a means to meet that need was developed. That is how humanity works...we generally don't do squat till there is a defined need for it.

I am not sold on the "star" element yet. This was more "earthly"...totems and "the hunt" and mankind's rise to power over nature....that is what I think this site is about...

But who am I?...an educated idiot...a maniac with a computer....a keyboard warrior....

keyboardcommando_zps06034655.jpg

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we generally don't do squat till there is a defined need for it.8a4.jpg

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As Magli said, he's just speculating.

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I'm still not convinced about Gobekli-Tepe being a temple as it's primary function. While we have evidence of settled, agrarian societies building temples (or temple-like structures) and funerary monuments as permanent or semi-permanent structures as a matter of importance, those who inhabited the area around Gobekli-Tepe are presumed to still be primarily hunter/gatherer. So we should not carry over our observations from non-alike societies and assume the monumental structure at Gobekli-Tepe's function from that.

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I personally think GT is a "meeting place of the tribes" for the local tribes. The animal sigils are representations of the tribes, the most important tribes in the centre etc.

Over the years, the meeting place changed (and shrunk and built upwards) as the tribes assimilated each other, were wiped out, moved on, moved in etc etc.

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I personally think GT is a "meeting place of the tribes" for the local tribes. The animal sigils are representations of the tribes, the most important tribes in the centre etc.

Over the years, the meeting place changed (and shrunk and built upwards) as the tribes assimilated each other, were wiped out, moved on, moved in etc etc.

Barring any evidence to the contrary, I'm inclined to agree about the "meeting place" hypothesis, Sir WoH. And I see you have been honoured, *doffs cap*.

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I personally think GT is a "meeting place of the tribes" for the local tribes. The animal sigils are representations of the tribes, the most important tribes in the centre etc.

Over the years, the meeting place changed (and shrunk and built upwards) as the tribes assimilated each other, were wiped out, moved on, moved in etc etc.

I agree... Having it as a place for semi-nomadic tribes of the same culture to gather periodically to maintain contact, inter-marry, trade and just to have an excuse to party makes a lot of sense...

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I agree... Having it as a place for semi-nomadic tribes of the same culture to gather periodically to maintain contact, inter-marry, trade and just to have an excuse to party makes a lot of sense...

In that sense it can be viewed as the earliest known effort to organise such gatherings and so, perhaps, be a step on the path towards the transition to agrarianism.

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post-86645-0-98284800-1377257332_thumb.j [click to enlarge] [double click to go back in time] :w00t:

I just thought i'd post this pic .. because if form follows function ,, what does the form of this tell us, if anything? What's with the outer area at the top of the image that seems to be enclosed? The multiple ringed walls are intriguing .

*

Edited by lightly

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Perhaps it was the equivalent of a court-of-law and trial arena?

An early attempt at a UN to settle disputes either peacefully, or with minimum of violence?

Edited by Leonardo

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It appears to me also to be a food center of the hunters abudance of game, perhaps to be tally and passed out to the tribes,a distribution of food. the statues of the figures have their hands over their stomachs.:)

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With your apparent ability to divinely intuit the meaning of works and deeds of the ancients, I wonder why you're left posting here and not writing mass-market paperbacks with lurid blurbs...

--Jaylemurph

uhmmm...i'm just speculating sir... :blush:

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uhmmm...i'm just speculating sir... :blush:

Don't be put off by Jay's bark. ;) Those of us who have been here a long time tend to have seen the mistakes people make regarding many of our ancient monuments and structures, over and over again - and so it can get a little frustrating from time to time. But you just ride with that, improve your knowledge, and come back ready for the next round.

At the end of the day, however, we're all here because there are questions we'd like the answers to. And it's generally a fairly good natured place.

Edited by Leonardo

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Don't be put off by Jay's bark. ;) Those of us who have been here a long time tend to have seen the mistakes people make regarding many of our ancient monuments and structures, over and over again - and so it can get a little frustrating from time to time. But you just ride with that, improve your knowledge, and come back ready for the next round.

At the end of the day, however, we're all here because there are questions we'd like the answers to. And it's generally a fairly good natured place.

thank you...but it is not that im intimidated, i have my own perception in viewing things...

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... Fun to think about. Maybe they gathered there for multiple reasons... one being a CENSUS of the clans, and thereby the larger group/tribe.

Maybe they made various plans there.. perhaps even defensive and or offensive battle plans .

I read somewhere that the T's might represent important individuals ?? Why the odd shape ? instead of perfectly proportioned? > T

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... Fun to think about. Maybe they gathered there for multiple reasons... one being a CENSUS of the clans, and thereby the larger group/tribe.

Maybe they made various plans there.. perhaps even defensive and or offensive battle plans .

I read somewhere that the T's might represent important individuals ?? Why the odd shape ? instead of perfectly proportioned? > T

Hardly, in fact the Gobeliki culture seems to be behind that of its neighbors... unless at some point there was a taboo passed against ceramics. My bet is that it was cave dwelling hunter who were displaced from their area. As they found no cave to convert into a Temple (i.e. Lascaux, Altamira) they built themselves a cave.

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Ah, thanks for the info questionmark . No ceramics while some of the neighbors did have huh? I remember you stating that displaced cave dwellers idea before. It does make sense.

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Ah, thanks for the info questionmark . No ceramics while some of the neighbors did have huh? I remember you stating that displaced cave dwellers idea before. It does make sense.

No, I did not say that, there were ceramics but of much cruder design and execution that those of the neighbors, one could say they were about 1000 years behind.

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Oh, ok thanks. ..But then the site was used for well over a thousand years wasn't it? So if they were a "displaced" group, they seem to have made themselves at home?

Edited by lightly

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Oh, ok thanks. ..But then the site was used for well over a thousand years wasn't it? So if they were a "displaced" group, they seem to have made themselves at home?

Quite so, you don't build gigantic (for its time) temples to bugger off next year. Yes the site lasted a long time, and one day was buried and abandoned.

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