Join the Unexplained Mysteries community today! It's free and setting up an account only takes a moment.
- Sign In or Create Account -
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 2
Frank Merton

New Jersey to ban gay conversion treatments

70 posts in this topic

I see where New Jersey is acting to enact a ban on efforts to "convert" homosexuals from being gay. I can see the medical authorities intervening if such treatments are fraudulent or ineffective or harmful, but should such things be made illegal in their entirety? If a person wants to take such a treatment that has been shown with the appropriate studies to be safe and effective, shouldn't that be allowed?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If a person wants to take such a treatment that has been shown with the appropriate studies to be safe and effective, shouldn't that be allowed?

Why not have straight conversion treatment?

4 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's just the thing, gay conversion "therapy" has not been shown to be safe or effective, quite the opposite really.

There’s nothing to fix, and most people don’t want to do the “treatment” they are being forced to do it. Those that do want such a “treatment” need mental help of a different sort from real therapists.

We should call it what it really is gay conversion torture.

4 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Straight conversion treatment for those who want to be gay would be fine; the point is the freedom of the individual. That some forms of present-day conversion treatments may be describable as torture is not relevant.

The point is the state interfering in medical procedures desired by the patient that have been shown to be safe and effective.

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes I agree there do not appear to be any such treatments available today, but we don't know about what might be discovered.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The point is the state interfering in medical procedures desired by the patient that have been shown to be safe and effective.

But they haven't been.

I'm all for the state banning 'medical' or 'psychological' therapies that have no proven records.

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Yeah...this is government over reach yet again. For what it's worth, a person's sexual preference is of no concern to me. I really do not care. The issue here is...the Gov getting involved in things they have no business being involved in.

When will people open their eyes as to what the role of gov is supposed to be? They are not supposed to be our damn nannies...they are supposed to defend us...provide infrastructure...and facilitate commerce....that's it! Nothing more!

If there is an audience or customer base for "gay conversion" therapy...then apparently someone wants it...it should be there...that is what "free markets" do...they fulfill a need or desire.

gaaahsmiley_zps1e5b911a.gif I give up....people want smaller gov and more freedom and then they accept proclamations like this....this is not medieval europe and the state Gov is not a monarch...they have no business getting involved in this.

Edited by Jeremiah65
4 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When will people open their eyes as to what the role of gov is supposed to be? They are not supposed to be our damn nannies...they are supposed to defend us...provide infrastructure...and facilitate commerce....that's it! Nothing more!

If there is an audience or customer base for "gay conversion" therapy...then apparently someone wants it...it should be there...that is what "free markets" do...they fulfill a need or desire.

Well said! :clap:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah...this is government over reach yet again. For what it's worth, a person's sexual preference is of no concern to me. I really do not care. The issue here is...the Gov getting involved in things they have no business being involved in.

When will people open their eyes as to what the role of gov is supposed to be? They are not supposed to be our damn nannies...they are supposed to defend us...provide infrastructure...and facilitate commerce....that's it! Nothing more!

If there is an audience or customer base for "gay conversion" therapy...then apparently someone wants it...it should be there...that is what "free markets" do...they fulfill a need or desire.

gaaahsmiley_zps1e5b911a.gif I give up....people want smaller gov and more freedom and then they accept proclamations like this....this is not medieval europe and the state Gov is not a monarch...they have no business getting involved in this.

The governmet does have agencies that get involved when parents are unfit and when children are in danger or abused. Would you say that is 'nannying'? This ban is aimed at conversion therapy aimed at children. This 'therapy' is not aimed at people that want it for themselves, but at vunerable children. As such it should be opposed as strongly as any other form of abuse to children, because that's what it is, plain and simple. As Odin said above, it's not therapy it's torture and torture of children at that.

Saying it should be allowed because there's obviously a customer base is as foolish as saying that we should allow pedophilia for the same reason. People want to see children being raped and will pay for it, so why shouldn't it be there? Free markets right? Doesn't matter that children are being abused just because someone's willing to pay right?

The government should absolutely get involved to protect children from abuse and children shouldn't be abused in any form simply because there's a 'market for it'.

3 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Straight conversion treatment for those who want to be gay would be fine; the point is the freedom of the individual. That some forms of present-day conversion treatments may be describable as torture is not relevant.

The point is the state interfering in medical procedures desired by the patient that have been shown to be safe and effective.

We have to deal with the here and now first and foremost. Today 'conversion therapy' is akin to torture and most people are forced into it or guilted into it by family or their faith. These people absolutely to need help, but the promise of a 'cure' is not the help that is required, especially when that cure has been universally considered both harmful and a fraud.

The state should interfere to regulate medical procedures which have been proven ot to work to ensure that people aren't being conned, lied to and harmed.

Let's say you had an organisation and they were claiming they could cure cancer if someone paid $9000 to them. They gave them pills and a tonic an told them not to take any other form of medication. The person, buying into the promise does eactly that and instead of getting better, they get worse. Why? Because the pills are sugar pills and the tonic is nothing but coloured flavoured water. Should such a group not face criminal prosecution because the people came to them beieveing they'd be cured?

At the end of the day this is what the problem is, people offering a 'cure' that doesn't work. The possibility that a future 'cure' will come to light doesn't matter, because we are dealing with the here and now. The example above wouldn't be suddenly ok because there'll be a cure for cancer in the future would it? So why should this be?

Edited by shadowhive
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

didn't they try this already, with Alan Turing?

hardly an advertisement for the concept really.....

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Caveat Emptor - Let the buyer beware

Caveat venditor - Let the seller beware.

Do your homework before you buy goods or services. If you don't...sucks to be you. "A fool and his money are soon parted"

I will never accept the Nanny/Police state...regardless how many tear jerking scenarios you can dig out of the ugly history of human behavior...

It is within the capacity of human beings, both individually and collectively, to deal with these things without the need of the Iron fist of oppressive Government.

Edited by Jeremiah65
2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't want to goggle it from work, but can anyone briefly outline how they do this "treatment"? Do they like show them gay porn and then slap them in the face or something??? I simply can't understand how they think homsexuality can be treated :huh:

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Caveat Emptor - Let the buyer beware

Caveat venditor - Let the seller beware.

Do your homework before you buy goods or services. If you don't...sucks to be you. "A fool and his money are soon parted"

I will never accept the Nanny/Police state...regardless how many tear jerking scenarios you can dig out of the ugly history of human behavior...

It is within the capacity of human beings, both individually and collectively, to deal with these things without the need of the Iron fist of oppressive Government.

Ah so if anyone doesn't 'do their homework' before they buy something it's their own fault if something goes wrong and they're not entitled to any form of settlement or justice? I think that in and of itself speaks volumes about your negative attitude. It's not that you don't want governemnt involved you don't want anyone involved in any way with any problem anyone has.

I'm against a police state as well. However, we DO have laws and it's up to government organisations (child services, trading standards, police) to uphold those laws. don't see how those organisations doing their job amounts to a 'police state' though.

Personally I don't think it's oppressive to put a stop to children being tortured. Apparently that doesn't matter all that much as long as someone pays for the privelge. this aw is solely to prevent parents from forcing their children to go to through conversion therapy. These people don't decide it for themselves, they don't have a choice in the matter. It's pure and simple abuse and should be dealt with appropriately not excused away if it was a public service being provided.

It's within the capacity of human beings to deal with these things, which is why police and justice system were formed in the first place. It was human being's colective decision to put into place a system that works to bring about justice and set things right. But that's somehow not enouh for you. Somehow that's not the 'wil of the people' but 'the iron fist of government'. Tell me, what's the alternative? Peope taking the law into their own hands using an 'eye for an eye' as a guide?

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't want to goggle it from work, but can anyone briefly outline how they do this "treatment"? Do they like show them gay porn and then slap them in the face or something??? I simply can't understand how they think homsexuality can be treated :huh:

It seems to vary from place to place. I've heard of them using electroshock treatment being used (similar to your slap thng bt with electricity). I have heard of conversion camps where children get sent to if they show any sort of homosexual tendancy (no matter of they're actually gay or not). Some of the 'treatments' involved their included locking children in a basement all day, starving them and the aforementoned shock therapy. Honestly, I don't see how anyone can have an objection to banning such a practice when children are submitted to such things. It seems we are against the abuse of children unless it's in the name of 'curing them'.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

violin_zps44f4c346.gif

Whatever...If there was no market, businesses are forced to close their doors....supply and demand...if there is no demand, there will be no supply.

Goodie for you that you want the GOV to fix everything and make the world all flowers and butterflies...

Yes I have a negative attitude because I do not coddle the stupid...just like people that hose their money away on "psychic hotline"...I think they are stupid...but hey...as I said...a fool and his money are soon parted....and the other old applicable saying "there is a sucker born every minute"...It's not my job or your job or the Gov's job to protect them from their own stupidity...

Edited by Jeremiah65
4 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

violin_zps44f4c346.gif

Whatever...If there was no market, businesses are forced to close their doors....supply and demand...if there is no demand, there will be no supply.

Goodie for you that you want the GOV to fix everything and make the world all flowers and butterflies...

Yes I have a negative attitude because I do not coddle the stupid...just like people that hose their money away on "psychic hotline"...I think they are stupid...but hey...as I said...a fool and his money are soon aprted....and the other old applicable saying "there is a sucker born every minute"...It's not my job or your job or the Gov's job to protect them from their own stupidity...

I get it, you don't care about humanity as long as money's to be made. Money is clearly all that matters to you. The suffering of others? Doesn't seem to bother you that much. As long as someone's made money out of it.

It shows how callous you are because you're defending the torture of children simply because 'there's a market for it'. No thought to the health and well being of the kids, just that someone's making money off it.

Edited by shadowhive

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I get it, you don't care about humanity as long as money's to be made. Money is clearly all that matters to you. The suffering of others? Doesn't seem to bother you that much. As long as someone's made money out of it.

It shows how callous you are because you're defending the torture of children simply because 'there's a market for it'. No thought to the health and well being of the kids, just that someone's making money off it.

I don't think your understanding at all what Jeremiah is saying....

And no one is torturing kids, so calm down.

3 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think your understanding at all what Jeremiah is saying....

And no one is torturing kids, so calm down.

No, I do. This law is banning children under 18 from being submitted to conversion therapy. They have no choice, they are being forced into it. It's not regulated, often could be classified as torture, and has been universally proven not to work by professionals. And yet he is defending it and why? Simply because there's a market for it.

Let me ask you, why is that acceptable? You've liked every single post he's made, so clearly you must think so. So why? Why is it ok for vulnerable children kids to be submitted to 'therapy' against their will?

I don't think kids being treated in such a way is something we should be 'calm' about.

Edited by shadowhive
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No, I do. This law is banning children under 18 from being submitted to conversion therapy. They have no choice, they are being forced into it. It's not regulated, often could be classified as torture, and has been universally proven not to work by professionals. And yet he is defending it and why? Simply because there's a market for it.

Let me ask you, why is that acceptable? You've liked every single post he's made, so clearly you must think so. So why? Why is it ok for vulnerable children kids to be submitted to 'therapy' against their will?

I don't think kids being treated in such a way is something we should be 'calm' about.

No one is defending conversion therapy. The question, is why is the government getting involved in this? And you fail to understand the concept of supply and demand. Look, people are going to do, whatever it is their going to do. You may not like it, and find it distasteful, but, those people have the right to do that. Banning things just doesn't work. If parents want their child in gay conversion therapy, and that child is not being beaten or starved, and is in no danger, that is their business, and no one else's, and certainly not the government's. If their is abuse, or torture going on, that is for the cops to investigate....

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No one is defending conversion therapy. The question, is why is the government getting involved in this? And you fail to understand the concept of supply and demand. Look, people are going to do, whatever it is their going to do. You may not like it, and find it distasteful, but, those people have the right to do that. Banning things just doesn't work. If parents want their child in gay conversion therapy, and that child is not being beaten or starved, and is in no danger, that is their business, and no one else's, and certainly not the government's. If their is abuse, or torture going on, that is for the cops to investigate....

Well the government gets involved because (gasp) it makes the law. I don't see why the government banning a harmful practice that is universally condemned is being treated like the worst thing ever.

The treatment doesn't work, it is abusive and no child should be forced to go through it. Full stop. But like with Jeremiah the rights of the child go out the window simplly because the parents want it and will pay. Your only interest is when it 'goes to far' at which point (after complaining about government intervention) you're happy to let them get involved. As always with this stuff, people are only interested in doing anything when it goes too far.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why does the government get involved with families that try to pray away illness for their children? This is basically an extension of that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

:sigh:

I give up. You don't get it, you don't get it, I guess....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

head_banging.gif

You just don't get it do you? You said you don't want a Police state...but you are apparently fine with the Nanny state.

It is not the job of the state to steal a parents rights to raise their child as they see fit to be productive parts of society...but apparently to some of you, the concept of being a productive part of society is a great unknown mystery.

So what then? The state steals the child away and puts it into the corrupt for profit foster care system?...kinda similar to the modern for profit prison system if you ask me. The foster care system has been proven to suck...it often puts children into more abusive and neglectful circumstances that what they were kidnapped and stolen from.

But by all means, please continue to worship and praise at the alter of the state.

Edited by Jeremiah65
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I didn't have children in mind with my original post, and agree that forcing such treatment on children would be an acceptable thing to prohibit.

Most medical treatments have to be approved by the appropriate agency as safe and effective; I think this is enough protection. If the treatment offered really is "torture" as claimed, it would not be safe. I doubt that. That it is not effective is more problematic, and should be demonstrated to prevent fraud.

A complete ban, however, is excessive.

Edited by Frank Merton
2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 2

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.