Military Aptitude?

[DeWitz]

Within hours this week, Pvt. Bradley/Chelsea Manning; S/Sgt. Robert Bales; and Major Nadal Hasan have been convicted of major crimes. Manning is the most recent sacrificial lamb to 'espionage'; Bales went on a drugs-and-alcohol-fueled rampage in which he murdered 16 people in Afghanistan, mainly civilian women and children; Hasan was the miscreant who learned to be an Army doctor and then slaughtered random people at his Texas Army base after deciding Shi'ite jihad was his call, not Hippocrates. "Google" them as you will.

What do you think about the new lows to which the American military, our once-proud Army, has sunk?

[DecoNoir]

For every one of these idiots, there are hundreds, if not thousands, of decent people serving our military. Just because the media doesn't cover them doesn't mean they don't exist. Compared to some "armies" that can go slaughter civilians wholesale and won't even go noticed, I'd say they're doing quite well.

[Eldorado]

When you tar everyone with the same brush you sink to a personal low, imo.

[spud the mackem]

The Heroes outnumber the baddies.

[redhen]

A Muslim fanatic, a gay transgender wannabe with a grudge, and a dude who "inexplicably" flipped out. How is that representative of the U.S. military?

[DeWitz]

I did not say this was "representative" of the US military. I simply perceive 3 strange convictions in one single week. Is this from better reporting? Better prosecutions? Other factors? Of course these are aberrations. Three in a week?

[Skep B]

Seems like acceptable losses in the bigger picture

[redhen]

I did not say this was "representative" of the US military. I simply perceive 3 strange convictions in one single week. Is this from better reporting? Better prosecutions? Other factors? Of course these are aberrations. Three in a week?

It's just a coincidence.

Bales committed his crimes and was arrested in March 2012. He struck a plea deal in June 2013 in order to escape the death penalty. So just over a year from arrest to conviction, pretty swift as far as the wheels of justice goes.

Manning was arrested in May 2010. So three years in between.

Hasan committed his crimes and was arrested in Nov. 2009. Almost fours years from arrest to conviction, now that sounds more like the bureaucratic standard.

It's only been two months since Edward Snowdon was charged. We'll have to wait and see how long his conviction takes, but they have to catch him first. Run Edward, run! Anyways, he's a civilian so that doesn't count.

[F3SS]

I did not say this was "representative" of the US military. I simply perceive 3 strange convictions in one single week. Is this from better reporting? Better prosecutions? Other factors? Of course these are aberrations. Three in a week?

You kind of did say that when you lumped "new lows" with "once proud" and "our military" as the common demoninator. But maybe words came out wrong or else I'd ask if you think crazy people in the military is something new.

[DeWitz]

You kind of did say that when you lumped "new lows" with "once proud" and "our military" as the common demoninator. But maybe words came out wrong or else I'd ask if you think crazy people in the military is something new.

Good point. My words were rhetorical, in the sense that I am not naive enough to believe these are the first 'aberrations' in US military history. Certain episodes of mayhem happen during both wartime and peacetime.

I wasn't stating that there is a pattern here, as much as I was making a comment about three varied, fairly sensational unrelated convictions for weirdness this past week week in the USArmy. I didn't even focus on Bradley/Chelsea, since that is a weirdness of an altogether different sort. I'll leave that thread to a braver soul. . .

[F3SS]

I hear you. It is odd how things like that happen.

[Babe Ruth]

I did not say this was "representative" of the US military. I simply perceive 3 strange convictions in one single week. Is this from better reporting? Better prosecutions? Other factors? Of course these are aberrations. Three in a week?

Manning was a scapegoat and committed no crime at all. He should be decorated for revealing government crimes, but that obviously ain't gonna happen.

Bales is clearly guilty, but there are mitigating circumstances, one of which could very easily be his regular use of the malaria preventing drug whose name escapes me at the moment. There are many many examples of that drug being a factor in making people crazy.

Having watched the Fort Hood shooting happen on TV in real time, I am most suspicious of that case. MKUltra type conditioning may have been a factor, but we will never really know. As it played out that day and in the next few weeks on TV, there were many suspicious details.

[questionmark]

The military of a country is never any better than the average of the citizens, because that is what they are. If you look at the convictions and indictments of the last 10 years you will even find more head-shakers. It is all there, from corruption to mass murder.

It starts to get problematic if these things happen but are not persecuted.

[DeWitz]

Manning was a scapegoat and committed no crime at all. He should be decorated for revealing government crimes, but that obviously ain't gonna happen.

Bales is clearly guilty, but there are mitigating circumstances, one of which could very easily be his regular use of the malaria preventing drug whose name escapes me at the moment. There are many many examples of that drug being a factor in making people crazy.

Having watched the Fort Hood shooting happen on TV in real time, I am most suspicious of that case. MKUltra type conditioning may have been a factor, but we will never really know. As it played out that day and in the next few weeks on TV, there were many suspicious details.

Interesting perspectives. Manning's case seems to be real polarizing in the sense that some see him/her clearly as a traitor, while others see a champion for sharing critical information.

Bales was on his 4th deployment in a combat zone, which I think is a crime to do to any soldier/Marine/sailor/airman. Such is the nature of the volunteer military.

[Beckys_Mom]

When you tar everyone with the same brush you sink to a personal low, imo.

That's exactly what Christians do when they lump us all as sinners.. lol

[Shiloh17]

Well, they tried to keep gays out of the military. So with Manning, the breakup he had with his boyfriend caused that, he said.

With Nidal, he could have resigned as a conscientious objector. He had a problem with a "Christian nation" I suppose, fighting against Muslims,

So instead he formed his one man Jihad and commenced killing for Allah. I suppose it is o.k for Muslim nations to fight each other, no Jihad needed.

And for Bales, he had a previous brain injury and was giving an anti-malaria drug that could have fueled his killing spree. regardless it is a sad situation.

These are in no way representative of ideals set by the U.S. Military or indicative of the standards by which the Uniform Code of Military Justice requires.

[+and-then]

Bales ended 16 lives - half or more were children. I strongly support the US military and I feel that his situation may have been in some way a mitigation but it would be justice for his life to be forfeit. 16 dead. How can we speak of justice to the world and spare his life when he took 16 lives in cold blood? Hassan should be executed as well. He probably will not be but he deserves it as well. Manning received a just sentence imo. He probably will be paroled in less than 20. His actions would have been heroic if he'd stood up and accepted responsibility. But his guilt was never in question and if he had been given a light sentence then who would have been the next enlisted man/woman/? to decide on their own which US military "secrets" needed to remain secret? He says he acted in good conscience. If he did then he should have been willing to just plead guilty. I definitely would have respected Bradley OR Chelsea if he had. As to the OP, Q had it right. The military is no better than those who join and serve and THEY are no better than the country that produced them.

[Eldorado]

That's exactly what Christians do when they lump us all as sinners.. lol

The same can be said of atheists, lumping all the religious as fundamentalist crazies. lol

(we could on like this for days)

Anyways. I think Christians see everyone, including themselves, as sinners. I think it's required. Not sure though and don't want to derail the thread by discussing it here.

Edited August 25, 2013 by Eldorado

[Babe Ruth]

Eldorado

I absolutely LOVE your picture there!

Without the smoke, obviously, it reminds me so much of the 'holy cards' I received as a youngster in the church.

[Beckys_Mom]

The same can be said of atheists, lumping all the religious as fundamentalist crazies. lol

Yup that is true... They both yap on about being lumped into the same group of bad crazy people, yet they are more than eager to paint everyone else with their own soppy brush... Hypocritical springs to mind...

Anyways. I think Christians see everyone, including themselves, as sinners. I think it's required.

It doesn't make it any less hypocritical or right to lump everyone else with the same negative term as they would with murderers, rapists ect..Double standards...Don't go lumping us with bad people, but we can do it to you..

Anyhoo. .that is off topic..

Edited August 25, 2013 by Beckys_Mom