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Big Bad Voodoo

Out-of-body experiences - proof of afterlife?

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As title said Is out of body expirience proof of after life?

During car accedents, drug abuse and on operation table people often report seeing all from different point of view. From above.

Science still dont have answer on it.

Big Bad Voodoo

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Posted (edited)

....No.

An "Out-of-Body" experience simply means that you experienced the sensation of being out of your body, nothing more.

It's like one of those lucid dreams or whatever. It can feel very real but no part of you ever leaves. It's all taking place in your head.

It seems the body takes in information all the time and, especially when asleep or unconscious, can put it all together in a way that makes it seem like you are floating around but it is all based on conjecture.

The brain does a pretty good job creating a convincing synopsis of what is happening.

Edited by Ryu
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Posted (edited)

It's like one of those lucid dreams or whatever.

You are first who link it with lucid dreaming. Its two totaly different phenomenan.

Lucid dreaming happens during sleep. You at first become aware that you dreaming. As you practice, writting dream map you progress. You can shape your dream. Learn in dream.

Expirience things. Its preview of life in a sense. You can practice situtation which scared you. You can awake yourself in any moment. You become more self awared.

Out-of-body expirience is expirence when you have car accident and you remember all from above , doctors words.

Or during operations on tables.

Neuro basis of this phenomena is unexplained.

Edited by Big Bad Voodoo
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They prove how powerful the human brain is.

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They prove how powerful the human brain is.

Yes and? How all people no matter of culture or ages describe same thing.

From above. So is what you saying that man have ability to get out side of body?

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You are first who link it with lucid dreaming. Its two totaly different phenomenan.

I simply said it was "LIKE" lucid dreaming. Either way I think both "phenomenon" are all in the brain and have absolutely no reality that is independent of the brain.

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Posted (edited)

I simply said it was "LIKE" lucid dreaming. Either way I think both "phenomenon" are all in the brain and have absolutely no reality that is independent of the brain.

Thats for Nobel prize. Its brain. Period.

By your view then Astral travel is scientific FACT. We , as humans, can see things out of body. Our brain allow us that. Thats what you saying.

And agian it isnt linked with Lucid dream. Im Lucid dreamer. ;)

Far as scientific community thinks.

Edited by Big Bad Voodoo

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Thats for Nobel prize. Its brain. Period.

By your view then Astral travel is scientific FACT. We , as humans, can see things out of body. Our brain allow us that. Thats what you saying.

...No I am NOT saying that. I explicitly said that all these experiences are in our heads...none of it has a reality outside of and independent of the brain.

Ok..I will be more straight-forward, it is all FAKE! It is all a hallucination, it is NOT REAL!!!!

I have no idea where you got the idea that I said astral travel was a fact.

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Posted (edited)

...No I am NOT saying that. I explicitly said that all these experiences are in our heads...none of it has a reality outside of and independent of the brain.

Ok..I will be more straight-forward, it is all FAKE! It is all a hallucination, it is NOT REAL!!!!

I have no idea where you got the idea that I said astral travel was a fact.

But scientists dont ignore people on this. There numerous cases. This phenomenan is studied in detail and science didnt conclude what you did. Why? Because persons spoke in detail what they saw and heared.

Sceptics howerver do see this as some hallucination but they also cant tell whats basis for this phenomenan. Meaning they just deny it but not based on facts. Its based on their "scepticism".

I put word scepticism under " because thats not scepticism at all. True sceptic will question everything and even today view on world.

Word scepticism is hijacked. Fringies are more sceptic then "sceptics." They question everything.

Anyway, can I ask you why do you believe its hallucination?

Big Bad Voodoo

Edited by Big Bad Voodoo
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But scientists dont ignore people on this. There numerous cases. This phenomenan is studied in detail and science didnt conclude what you did. Why? Because persons spoke in detail what they saw and heared.

Sceptics howerver do see this as some hallucination but they also cant tell whats basis for this phenomenan. Meaning they just deny it but not based on facts. Its based on their "scepticism".

I put word scepticism under " because thats not scepticism at all. True sceptic will question everything and even today view on world.

Word scepticism is hijacked. Fringies are more sceptic then "sceptics." They question everything.

Anyway, can I ask you why do you believe its hallucination?

Big Bad Voodoo

If you're trying to question everything, then why are you so dead-set on pushing astral projection or some spiritual nonsense as an explanation? You ought to be questioning those things as much as anyone else. You claim that "skepticism" has been hijacked; I'm not sure you know what skepticism really is. Nobody should ignore what people report, but questioning whether it was a hallucination, or an astral projection, or a dream, or anything else, are all possible answers. The reason why hallucinations or purely brain-based explanations are more probable at the moment are because there is simply no evidence that anything like astral projection, etc., even exists. All research on this subject which has ever been conducted indicates that the brain is almost certainly the cause of the phenomenon: human brains under similar circumstances or stressful situations will likely behave similarly. That much goes without saying.

And to combat a popular OOBE argument: knowing things that the doctor say is hardly remarkable—even the unconscious human body still takes in sensory information, subconsciously. An OOBE person hearing things the doctor say is about as remarkable as any other person there hearing what they said. Now, find me a deaf person who experienced an OOBE and was able to hear and recall what the doctors were saying with their "astral bodies"... that would be interesting.

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Then tell me what is basis for such phenomenan? And there are researchers who claim different.

You cant blame brain. I have a brain but I dont have OBE.

And please inform me, what is scepticism? Because if you disagree with me on it, I think you are one who dont understand it.

Big Bad Voodoo

Edited by Big Bad Voodoo

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While remaining skeptical about the subject, I have had OOBE's (when I was a lot younger) in which what I was able to 'observe' I have difficulty finding a rational, mundane explanation for.

There are some paranormal phenomena where I am caught between skepticism and belief, and OOBE/remote viewing (if they are the same phenomenon, or different perceptions of the same phenomenon) are among those.

I would not, however, make the claim that if OOBE/remote viewing was possible, then it would follow that an afterlife existed. To me, these are completely separate in their nature as phenomena.

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What I'm getting from replies to this thread is that whatever is in your mind is fake.

That sounds sort of backwards, being that that is the only thing you truly know is real. All else is trusted to be real, and you never really know.

edit: But...... staying true to my own line of thinking, I can't even truly say that out of body experiences truly exist either, unless I have experienced one for myself.

Edited by _Only
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...No I am NOT saying that. I explicitly said that all these experiences are in our heads...

And?

What isn't in your head?

Not mine; not his or hers.

What isn't in your head that you experience, ever?

So it makes it unreal if only you perceive it, because no one else affirms your personal mind's experience? That makes it fake? That's one way to look at the inner vs. outside existence I guess. I understand these are two different viewpoints of existence.

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I dont want to expirience it. It means car accident, drug abuse, operation or similar. I would rather be unexpirienced about OBE.

Big Bad Voodoo

Edited by Big Bad Voodoo

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I forget who it was that posted awhile ago with a very interesting and unexpected account of the one odd time he experienced an out of body experience. He was hit by someone in the back of the head extremely hard one time, and as it happened, he was able to see as someone standing behind him and watched himself get hit.

Now the subconscious mind is quite the Criss Angel to pull off being able to unconsciously take in a view of the back of his own body.

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Then tell me what is basis for such phenomenan? And there are researchers who claim different.

You cant blame brain. I have a brain but I dont have OBE.

And please inform me, what is scepticism? Because if you disagree with me on it, I think you are one who dont understand it.

Of course we all have brains, and only some of us, under very specific circumstances, experience OOBE. The brain is the only viable explanation at the moment, unless you can supply more robust hypothesis. In any case, we have no reason to suspect anything other than the brain.

Skepticism is remaining incredulous of a proposition until it is rationally plausible to do otherwise. In a nutshell. In other words: skepticism is only believing things for which there is a plausible reason to.

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I dont want to expirience it. It means car accident, drug abuse, operation or similar. I would rather be unexpirienced about OBE.

You left out peaceful meditation.

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And?

What isn't in your head?

Not mine; not his or hers.

What isn't in your head that you experience, ever?

So it makes it unreal if only you perceive it, because no one else affirms your personal mind's experience? That makes it fake? That's one way to look at the inner vs. outside existence I guess. I understand these are two different viewpoints of existence.

It's a simple matter of objectivity .vs. subjectivity: yes, all of our perceptions are ultimately within our own heads. The difference between the warped reality inside the head of a lunatic and the real world however is third-person perspective: cross-referencing the reality I perceive with the reality that everybody else does. The bits that overlap are generally regarded as being real. That's one way to explain it anyway.

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I dont want to expirience it. It means car accident, drug abuse, operation or similar. I would rather be unexpirienced about OBE.

Big Bad Voodoo

My experiences occurred while in a state of deep relaxation and/or semi-somnolence. While some might suggest this was "astral projection", I do not recall any 'silvery cord', I was not aware of having an "astral body", and I do not like the term either - as it is far too "New Agey" for my liking.

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While remaining skeptical about the subject, I have had OOBE's (when I was a lot younger) in which what I was able to 'observe' I have difficulty finding a rational, mundane explanation for.

There are some paranormal phenomena where I am caught between skepticism and belief, and OOBE/remote viewing (if they are the same phenomenon, or different perceptions of the same phenomenon) are among those.

I would not, however, make the claim that if OOBE/remote viewing was possible, then it would follow that an afterlife existed. To me, these are completely separate in their nature as phenomena.

I think the confusing word is afterlife. People hear this word, and automatically think of predisposed perceptions of what afterlife is, and usually imagine a Heaven or Hell 'world' we go to.

I don't think afterlife is a good word to get away from this line of thinking. I think 'OOB life' or something along those lines sticks to the idea (life perhaps existing separate from a physical body). With this new term, it drops the idea that this is your life, and then there is something after. It can entertain the idea that there isn't one life, then something else, etc. There is just consciousness, or life, that doesn't have to have any beginning or end necessarily.

Who is to say that if we die right now, we don't just move on without missing a beat as someone or something else? Life goes on, right?

Just an idea, but out of body experience proof of an afterlife? No. Proof of life existing outside of this one meat shell we have commandeered? Well, no still, but maybe we're getting closer.

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Of course we all have brains, and only some of us, under very specific circumstances, experience OOBE. The brain is the only viable explanation at the moment, unless you can supply more robust hypothesis. In any case, we have no reason to suspect anything other than the brain.

Skepticism is remaining incredulous of a proposition until it is rationally plausible to do otherwise. In a nutshell. In other words: skepticism is only believing things for which there is a plausible reason to.

No I dont have explaination. But I found amazing, if is brain ability also, that I can see my body from different point of view. Im mean how brain gets visual picture? Trough eyes.

Yet I can see my eyes in OBE.

I will just quote two Sceptics and if that isnt enough I will explain it to you further if you desire so.

And btw last one is consider to be father of scepticism.

Socrates: "Only thing I know for certain is that I dont know nothing."

Michel de Montaigne: "Que sais-je?" or on English "What do I know?" or here is another "The only thing certain is nothing is certain."

People believe in Ptolemy universe for 1500 years. That was science.

Science is self correcting. And it has to be questioned all the time. But sceptics here dont do that. Fringies do. ;)

Big Bad Voodoo

Edited by Big Bad Voodoo

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It's a simple matter of objectivity .vs. subjectivity: yes, all of our perceptions are ultimately within our own heads. The difference between the warped reality inside the head of a lunatic and the real world however is third-person perspective: cross-referencing the reality I perceive with the reality that everybody else does. The bits that overlap are generally regarded as being real. That's one way to explain it anyway.

I know this is the case, and it comes down to our reality being a collective agreement. but still, being the selfish person I am personally, I can't truly trust that that collective agreement existing outside of my own mind is completely accurate, because I only know one thing, and that isn't much at all: that I am.

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I think the confusing word is afterlife. People hear this word, and automatically think of predisposed perceptions of what afterlife is, and usually imagine a Heaven or Hell 'world' we go to.

I don't think afterlife is a good word to get away from this line of thinking. I think 'OOB life' or something along those lines sticks to the idea (life perhaps existing separate from a physical body). With this new term, it drops the idea that this is your life, and then there is something after. It can entertain the idea that there isn't one life, then something else, etc. There is just consciousness, or life, that doesn't have to have any beginning or end necessarily.

Who is to say that if we die right now, we don't just move on without missing a beat as someone or something else? Life goes on, right?

Just an idea, but out of body experience proof of an afterlife? No. Proof of life existing outside of this one meat shell we have commandeered? Well, no still, but maybe we're getting closer.

Those things aren't impossible, I concede that much. None of them are impossible. Are any of them proved, or even probable? Hardly. OOBE frankly give more evidence against an afterlife or life-after-death to me than they ever have for. They demonstrate clearly that the brain is very active and can generate vivid imagery and illusory experiences, even under great stress; a fact which puts a certain implausibility in the idea of an already-implausible after-death persistence of life. I don't know whether consciousness exists after death or not—what I do know is that there isn't a scrap of evidence for it. Ergo, the idea is not significantly more credible than gods or leprechauns.

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