For believers in Biblical prophecy

[preacherman76]

Isaiah 17

1 The burden of Damascus. Behold, Damascus is taken away from being a city, and it shall be a ruinous heap.

² The cities of Aroer are forsaken: they shall be for flocks, which shall lie down, and none shall make them afraid.

³ The fortress also shall cease from Ephraim, and the kingdom from Damascus, and the remnant of Syria: they shall be as the glory of the children of Israel, saith the Lord of hosts.

⁴ And in that day it shall come to pass, that the glory of Jacob shall be made thin, and the fatness of his flesh shall wax lean.

⁵ And it shall be as when the harvestman gathereth the corn, and reapeth the ears with his arm; and it shall be as he that gathereth ears in the valley of Rephaim.

⁶ Yet gleaning grapes shall be left in it, as the shaking of an olive tree, two or three berries in the top of the uppermost bough, four or five in the outmost fruitful branches thereof, saith the Lord God of Israel.

⁷ At that day shall a man look to his Maker, and his eyes shall have respect to the Holy One of Israel.

Jeremiah 49

²³ Concerning Damascus. Hamath is confounded, and Arpad: for they have heard evil tidings: they are fainthearted; there is sorrow on the sea; it cannot be quiet.

²⁴ Damascus is waxed feeble, and turneth herself to flee, and fear hath seized on her: anguish and sorrows have taken her, as a woman in travail.

²⁵ How is the city of praise not left, the city of my joy!

²⁶ Therefore her young men shall fall in her streets, and all the men of war shall be cut off in that day, saith the Lord of hosts.

²⁷ And I will kindle a fire in the wall of Damascus, and it shall consume the palaces of Benhadad.

Obviously this is a public forum, and anyone can comment. Just know Im not interested in debating whether or not biblical prophecy holds water in your opinion. So dont expect a responce from me if you feel the need to express your disbelief.

Anyhow, combining these prophecies with several others in regards to what we are seeing in the middle east, especialy Syria and Egypt. Also in Russia, China, the EU, the US, ect ect ect, I personaly believe that its very possible that we are very close, maybe even just days away from the start of the 7 year tribulation. I wanted to get some opinions from other believers in end time biblical prophecy.

[preacherman76]

Also to add, I believe Damascus is the oldest city on the planet that has always in recorded history, been inhabited. So obviously these prophecies had nothing to do with any attack Syria/Damascus might have gone through at any point in history. Plus you know when the bible is talking about a future event when it uses phrases like "and in that day it shall come to pass".

For me, this is a very exciting time. There have been many times in the recent past where there has, to me, been good reason to pay attention cause of biblical prophecy. However the burden of Damascus always seemed to be just outta reach. Well not anymore. I dont know exactly what might cause Damascus to be uninhabitable, or who exactly would be responcible for it. But for the first time it looks like it may be possible.

[Sundew]

My understanding is that these quotes are future prophesy. They may refer to destruction caused by typical warfare, or perhaps nuclear in nature, or to a direct act of God against Damascus. With the war in Syria about to heat up one may see these prophesies fulfilled in our lifetime.

I think Obama has backed himself into a political corner by saying that chemical weapons were a "line in the sand" that could not be crossed. Don't misunderstand, I do not approve of their use and perhaps we must act to prevent their further use, however, why telegraph your intentions beforehand and give your self little room to maneuver?

[Marcion Meets E. Sibyl]

People have been putting prophesies on wars...since the day one, and even creating a pseudo-prophesy for a war that had come to pass.

[preacherman76]

People have been putting prophesies on wars...since the day one, and even creating a pseudo-prophesy for a war that had come to pass.

Thats true, but without the existance of Israel, they really didnt have anything to stand on.

[DeWitz]

Also to add, I believe Damascus is the oldest city on the planet that has always in recorded history, been inhabited. So obviously these prophecies had nothing to do with any attack Syria/Damascus might have gone through at any point in history. Plus you know when the bible is talking about a future event when it uses phrases like "and in that day it shall come to pass".

For me, this is a very exciting time. There have been many times in the recent past where there has, to me, been good reason to pay attention cause of biblical prophecy. However the burden of Damascus always seemed to be just outta reach. Well not anymore. I dont know exactly what might cause Damascus to be uninhabitable, or who exactly would be responcible for it. But for the first time it looks like it may be possible.

""But about that day and hour no one knows, neither the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father." Matthew 24:35 (NRSV)

Biblical prophecy is interesting and important, but in my view cannot be interpreted with precision or exactitude.

". . .with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like one day." II Peter 3:8.

Still, I think you're right and prudent to "Keep awake." Mark 13:37.

And 'fear not. . .'

[Elfin]

Why do Christians seem so eager for the mass slaughter of billions?

[Marcion Meets E. Sibyl]

Thats true, but without the existance of Israel, they really didnt have anything to stand on.

Hi preacherman 76. Are you talking about the video link? Do you mean the current nation of Israel, or the Israel before the birth of Jesus Christ? Yes, I agree that the Israel of old was very important when it comes to the version of Christianity I follow.

[DeWitz]

Why do Christians seem so eager for the mass slaughter of billions?

I don't read the OP or following posts above as appearing "eager" for the "mass slaughter of billions." That may be descriptive of other Christians/other religious believers you have heard or read, but I don't see it here.

To interpret signs o' the times with excitation or interest doesn't imply eagerness for slaughter. And I'd be the first to say that Christian interpretation of Biblical prophecy is only one way of assessing such signs.

[Amalthe]

It seems that we are at the start of dangerous period. Somewhere i read that 3WW will start from slowly burning conflict that will just start to escalate more and more, sucking in more and more states. And i also read that at the end, in Middle East will be brought peaceful solution, but beware of the man who brings peace for he might be Antichrist.

[Sundew]

Why do Christians seem so eager for the mass slaughter of billions?

My understanding of human history is that there has only been about 200 years when there were no major conflicts going on and the world was at relative peace; it certainly is not at peace now. What are described as "end time" events in Scripture are basically the culmination of man's inhumanity to man and his rejection of God's authority. As someone has pointed out, it was man, not God, that invented war, arrows, spears, bombs, tanks, guns, rockets, explosives, nuclear weapons, etcetera. It is man who uses them on his fellow man. We have perfected weapons to the point that they could finally destroy us if they were all unleashed. There is a rather chilling verse in the Bible where Jesus says that if the end-time events where not shortened" (i.e. if God allowed them to continue), no flesh (i.e. human beings) would survive. (Matthew 24:22, Mark 13:20)

What Christians actually hope for is a time described in Isaiah 2:4 "He (Christ) will judge between the nations and will settle disputes for many poeples. They will beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks. Nation will not take up sword against nation, nor will they train for war anymore." (see also Micah 4:3). The horrible thing is that between now and that time of peace, man's self-destructive tendencies will culminate in the death of roughly 3/4 of all mankind. So Christians do not "want the slaughter of billions," it is rather a natural consequence of their rejection of God and their own war-like nature.

Edited August 29, 2013 by Sundew

[Elfin]

My understanding of human history is that there has only been about 200 years when there were no major conflicts going on and the world was at relative peace; it certainly is not at peace now. What are described as "end time" events in Scripture are basically the culmination of man's inhumanity to man and his rejection of God's authority. As someone has pointed out, it was man, not God, that invented war, arrows, spears, bombs, tanks, guns, rockets, explosives, nuclear weapons, etcetera. It is man who uses them on his fellow man. We have perfected weapons to the point that they could finally destroy us if they were all unleashed. There is a rather chilling verse in the Bible where Jesus says that if the end-time events where not shortened" (i.e. if God allowed them to continue), no flesh (i.e. human beings) would survive. (Matthew 24:22, Mark 13:20)

What Christians actually hope for is a time described in Isaiah 2:4 "He (Christ) will judge between the nations and will settle disputes for many poeples. They will beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks. Nation will not take up sword against nation, nor will they train for war anymore." (see also Micah 4:3). The horrible thing is that between now and that time of peace, man's self-destructive tendencies will culminate in the death of roughly 3/4 of all mankind. So Christians do not "want the slaughter of billions," it is rather a natural consequence of their rejection of God and their own war-like nature.

Considering how many wars have been fought on behalf of this god, all that rings very hollow to those who don't follow him. As indeed do his bloodthirsty exploits in the Old Testament.

[Donnie Darko]

There are always wars and rumors of wars it seems, I don't see how these times are any different than others really. I believe in God of the Bible as well as Jesus Christ, but I think we won't be the ones to live through the end times except our own individual ends.

Edited August 29, 2013 by Ever After

[GoldenWolf]

Why do Christians seem so eager for the mass slaughter of billions?

They look forward to the end times because they think it means the return of their messiah. A star trek quote comes to my mind, but reversed with them and modified. The wants of the one, outweigh the needs of the many.

[Kowalski]

Anyhow, combining these prophecies with several others in regards to what we are seeing in the middle east, especialy Syria and Egypt. Also in Russia, China, the EU, the US, ect ect ect, I personaly believe that its very possible that we are very close, maybe even just days away from the start of the 7 year tribulation. I wanted to get some opinions from other believers in end time biblical prophecy.

I might be wrong, but I was under the impression that the Bible, never mentioned or talked about a great 7 year Tribulation?

[glorybebe]

I beleive prophesies can be self fullfilling- if you think it will happen, you will start seeing the 'signs' and it will happen

[MacsMom]

For Kowalski:

The Tribulation is a future time period when the Lord will accomplish at least two aspects of His plan: 1) He will complete His discipline of the nation Israel (Daniel 9:24), and 2) He will judge the unbelieving, godless inhabitants of the earth (Revelation 6 - 18). The length of the Tribulation is seven years. This is determined by an understanding of the seventy weeks of Daniel (Daniel 9:24-27; also see the article on the Tribulation). The Great Tribulation is the last half of the Tribulation period, three and one-half years in length. It is distinguished from the Tribulation period because the Beast, or Antichrist, will be revealed, and the wrath of God will greatly intensify during this time.

Read more:http://www.gotquesti...l#ixzz2dO3pE3Gg

Edited August 29, 2013 by MacsMom

[MacsMom]

We're screwed.

[Sundew]

I might be wrong, but I was under the impression that the Bible, never mentioned or talked about a great 7 year Tribulation?

It is mentioned in Daniel, in Revelation and in other places. It is divided into two 3 1/2 periods. It is variously know as the Tribulation, the Great Tribulation (the latter 3 1/2 years), the Time of Jacob's Troubles and I think a few other names.

[Sundew]

Considering how many wars have been fought on behalf of this god, all that rings very hollow to those who don't follow him. As indeed do his bloodthirsty exploits in the Old Testament.

There have been many wars fought under the guise of Christianity, however you will find many of them were done under the auspices of Roman Catholicism, which I and many others consider to be a cult, the world's largest and oldest cult. A cult as defined by taking Scripture and added to or subtracting from it. You can do your own research on RC and come up with your own conclusions. The fact is Jesus Christ would have hardly condoned the atrocities done in his name.

As for the OT, if you are talking about the land of Canaan where the Israelites were told to go in and take the land, the inhabitants practiced some of the most cruel idolatry imaginable, such as sacrificing their children by placing them in the arms of a metal image of their god, heated red hot. Or the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah where it says the entire town (males) came out and demanded to rape the two strangers who had entered Lot's house. Or take the flood: the Bible says that God saw that the "inclinations of man's heart was ONLY evil CONTINUALLY" yet he gave then 120 years to repent, but they did not. In each case and in others, judgment was enacted and people were destroyed for their evil practices. This may not set well with our modern sensibilities where evil is sometimes condoned, even glorified, but then Scripture says of God, "My ways are not your ways and My thoughts not your thoughts."

Edited August 29, 2013 by Sundew

[Sundew]

For Kowalski:

The Tribulation is a future time period when the Lord will accomplish at least two aspects of His plan: 1) He will complete His discipline of the nation Israel (Daniel 9:24), and 2) He will judge the unbelieving, godless inhabitants of the earth (Revelation 6 - 18). The length of the Tribulation is seven years. This is determined by an understanding of the seventy weeks of Daniel (Daniel 9:24-27; also see the article on the Tribulation). The Great Tribulation is the last half of the Tribulation period, three and one-half years in length. It is distinguished from the Tribulation period because the Beast, or Antichrist, will be revealed, and the wrath of God will greatly intensify during this time.

Read more:http://www.gotquesti...l#ixzz2dO3pE3Gg

If you are interested in Daniel, Chuck Missler has an 8 hour lecture series on it on YouTube, it's very good.

[Elfin]

There have been many wars fought under the guise of Christianity, however you will find many of them were done under the auspices of Roman Catholicism, which I and many others consider to be a cult, the world's largest and oldest cult. A cult as defined by taking Scripture and added to or subtracting from it. You can do your own research on RC and come up with your own conclusions. The fact is Jesus Christ would have hardly condoned the atrocities done in his name.

As for the OT, if you are talking about the land of Canaan where the Israelites were told to go in and take the land, the inhabitants practiced some of the most cruel idolatry imaginable, such as sacrificing their children by placing them in the arms of a metal image of their god, heated red hot. Or the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah where it says the entire town (males) came out and demanded to rape the two strangers who had entered Lot's house. Or take the flood: the Bible says that God saw that the "inclinations of man's heart was ONLY evil CONTINUALLY" yet he gave then 120 years to repent, but they did not. In each case and in others, judgment was enacted and people were destroyed for their evil practices. This may not set well with our modern sensibilities where evil is sometimes condoned, even glorified, but then Scripture says of God, "My ways are not your ways and My thoughts not your thoughts."

Another very disturbing aspect of Christianity, and monotheism in general, is now it has divided into so many rival cults, who are prepared to kill each other over the "truth".

We only have thw word of the Bible that the Canaanites committed such acts, in order justify the genocide that was carried out against them.

As for the flood (which didn't really happen of course, but let's take the Bible's own justification for it), were even little children doing only evil continually? What can a child do that's so evil it deserves death?

[Kowalski]

Okay, I don't want anyone to bash me for this, but this is what I have heard and read:

A Bible Study by Jack Kelley

“These things I have spoken to you, that in Me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world.” (John 16:33 NKJV)

“For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be.” (Matt. 24:21 NKJV)

Every now and then I get a question from someone who says even though the pre-trib position seems to make sense scripturally, they can’t accept it because Jesus said we would have tribulation in this world, and that must mean the church will go through at least the first part of the Tribulation. When they say this they’re thinking of the first 3 ½ years.

Let’s get this straight. There is no mention anywhere in the Bible of a seven year tribulation. According to Strong’s Concordance the Greek word translated tribulation in these two passages appears 45 times in the New Testament and tribulation is the English word of choice in 21 of them, including the two above. It comes from a root meaning “to press” as grapes are pressed. When used metaphorically it can mean oppression, affliction, tribulation, distress, hardship, or trouble. But while tribulation is the word that appears in both these verses, their intent is completely different.

What Does That Mean?

In John 16:33 Jesus said, in effect, that becoming a believer doesn’t mean your troubles are over. Troubles are characteristic of this world and as long as you’re in it you’ll have them. But He has overcome this world and through faith in Him you will over come it too.

He was referring to the fact that because of our faith we can have peace even in times of trouble (Phil 4:4-7). First because we know he’s working everything in our lives together for our good (Romans 8:28) and second because one day this will all be over and we’ll live in a state of eternal peace and happiness with Him. Therefore we should focus on that world not this one (2 Cor. 4:16-18). When you read the passage in context you can see that John 16:33 is meant for the entire Church Age and addresses individuals and our individual lives.

A Different Matter

But Matt. 24:21 is a different matter altogether. First of all it applies to a specific period of time, commencing on the heels of the abomination of desolation (Matt. 24:15) and ending just before the 2nd Coming (Matt. 24:29). And Jesus prefaced the word tribulation with “great” saying nothing like it has ever happened in the history of the world, or ever will happen again. From other references we know the Great Tribulation will last for 3 ½ years and will be far more severe than anyone can imagine. So much so that if the Lord doesn’t return to put an end to it, not a single human will survive (Matt. 24:22)

So as far as the Bible is concerned, there are two kinds of tribulation. The first is the general condition of our fallen creation. Hardship, illness, persecution and other kinds of unfair treatment, and a general state of uncertainty characterize our world. These are facts of human life that to a greater or lesser extent have impacted all human beings throughout the Age of Man. This is the tribulation Jesus spoke of inJohn 16:33. Of the 21 times the word tribulation appears in the New Testament (KJV) 16 of them are in this context.

Then, there’s the Great Tribulation. Three and one half years of extreme judgments that will fall upon just one generation, the one alive just before the second coming. This is the focus of Matt. 24:21 and just four other verses (Matt. 24:29, Mark 13:24, Rev. 2:22, Rev. 7:14) . You can see that the conditions of the two kinds of tribulation are very different. Whenever the word tribulation appears it’s referring to one of these two kinds and you know which one the Bible has in view by looking at context in which the word is being used. But you’ll never see it used to describe the seven years just prior to the 2nd Coming.

Where Did That Come From?

So how did the idea of a seven year tribulation originate? Well if it didn’t come from God, it had to have come from man. In researching this, I was not able to discover who first taught this, but I believe it started in the days when even the most learned scholars didn’t realize that Israel would be reborn. Neither did they understand that the Age of Grace didn’t follow the Age of Law but rather interrupted it seven years short of its completion. So calling the last seven years by their Old Testament name, Daniel’s 70th Week, didn’t make sense because doing so implied that Israel would come back from the dead and play a part in the End Times. This is something most scholars believed would not happen.

Even so there were seven years that had to be accounted for. The last three and a half were easy, Jesus had already named them the Great Tribulation (Matt. 24:21). That just left the first three and a half. These have been variously called the beginning of sorrows or the false peace or the tribulation period, but eventually scholars incorrectly began calling the entire seven year period the tribulation with the last half being the Great Tribulation. Since the rapture takes place before the seven years begin, it has also been incorrectly named. Instead of being pre-trib, it’s really pre 70th Week.

Link: http://gracethrufait...ar-tribulation/

This is just what I have heard and read. Not saying I'm right or anything, I don't know. Also, I've even read and heard some biblical scholars say that the Rapture isn't biblical either. This is just what I heard and read....

Edited August 29, 2013 by Kowalski

[+Paranoid Android]

I generally take an Amillennialist approach to the End Times. This view rejects a literal seven year tribulation and thousand year peace (with possibly a "rapture" if you subscribe to dubious biblical interpretation), and in its place suggests that we are already in the millennium, and have been ever since Jesus conquered death by rising from the grave. This was the moment sin was officially defeated, and death chained. At some non-specified time in the future, Jesus will return and usher in his new kingdom, but I'm not expecting beasts or an Anti Christ or one world governments or any such thing.

I could be wrong, but unless a Rapture or an anti Christ actually comes in my lifetime, does it matter? And if it does and I'm "left behind" (is belief in a Rapture essential to be part of said Rapture?) then I can reassess my position and ponder the validity of alternative interpretations.

Edited August 29, 2013 by Paranoid Android

[Kowalski]

I generally take an Amillennialist approach to the End Times. This view rejects a literal seven year tribulation and thousand year peace (with possibly a "rapture" if you subscribe to dubious biblical interpretation), and in its place suggests that we are already in the millennium, and have been ever since Jesus conquered death by rising from the grave. This was the moment sin was officially defeated, and death chained. At some non-specified time in the future, Jesus will return and usher in his new kingdom, but I'm not expecting beasts or an Anti Christ or one world governments or any such thing.

That's an interesting interpretation. I kinda like it....

I've heard quite a few interpretations of the end times though. Oh, and I have read the Left Behind books, and seen the movies, too.