[Merged] Germany pursues Auschwitz guards

[Still Waters]

German justice officials have said 30 former Auschwitz death camp guards should face prosecution.

The Baden-Wuerttemberg state justice ministry, heading the investigation, said 49 guards had been investigated, of whom 30 should be prosecuted.

The 30 are spread across Germany, and another seven are living abroad. They are said to be aged up to 97.

http://www.bbc.co.uk...europe-23942519

[Commander CMG]

It's all "too little too late"... most of them won't even know what day it and are probbaly blowing bubbles through the nose and mouth.

[Still Waters]

It's all "too little too late"...

That's what I thought. When you've reached age 90+ your life is coming to an end anyway. They are lucky to have lived to such a ripe old age, which is more than can be said for the prisoners at Auschwitz.

[Sufjan]

It's not about judgement, it's about sending a message. But yes, it is too late.

[Commander CMG]

That's what I thought. When you've reached age 90+ your life is coming to an end anyway. They are lucky to have lived to such a ripe old age, which is more than can be said for the prisoners at Auschwitz.

Absolutely, I fully agree.. It’s a bit like stripping Jimmy Saville of his knighthood after all the abuse claims against him.

He is dead and buried, the Knighthood means nothing to him anymore.. which leads me to my next question, where the hell is my Knighthood, they seem to be taking their time deciding on it.

[A rather obscure Bassoon]

Absolutely, I fully agree.. It’s a bit like stripping Jimmy Saville of his knighthood after all the abuse claims against him.

He is dead and buried, the Knighthood means nothing to him anymore.. which leads me to my next question, where the hell is my Knighthood, they seem to be taking their time deciding on it.

I'm still waiting for my OBE,good luck on that one.

[Ealdwita]

He is dead and buried, the Knighthood means nothing to him anymore.. which leads me to my next question, where the hell is my Knighthood, they seem to be taking their time deciding on it.

Ahem....there is a queue, young man if you don't mind!

[Commander CMG]

Ahem....there is a queue, young man if you don't mind!

Damn you and your pulling Rank..

[Yamato]

Should 30 Nazi concentration camp guards now between the ages of 86-97 be put to death?

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Latest-News-Wires/2013/0903/Auschwitz-guards-could-stand-trial-Why-new-trials-for-old-Nazis

One such guard is Siert Bruins, 92 years old, who has been found at last. Interestingly, he was already sentenced to death in absentia in the Netherlands in 1949. It's said that he was alert in court during trial proceedings.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/92-year-trial-nazi-war-crime-20133482

[Imaginarynumber1]

Is there a statute of limitations on attempted genocide and mass murder?

Edited September 4, 2013 by Imaginarynumber1

[brlesq1]

Nope, not as far as I'm aware.

[Rafterman]

I don't have a problem with it if the evidence is sound. My issue is always that some of these guys are brought up on charges based on evidence that is circumstantial at best. I also think that a distinction can be drawn between an 18-year-old conscripted prison guard and a goose stepping card carrying member of the SS Death Head brigade.

[Kaa-Tzik]

I don't have a problem with it if the evidence is sound. My issue is always that some of these guys are brought up on charges based on evidence that is circumstantial at best. I also think that a distinction can be drawn between an 18-year-old conscripted prison guard and a goose stepping card carrying member of the SS Death Head brigade.

I agree with that. I know the Nuremburg trials established that nobody can now hide behind the excuse that they were just obeying orders, but this is being applied retrospectively to these people who had no choice but to obey orders. Of course the Holocaust was vile beyond belief, but pursuing 90 year olds who were just footsoldiers starts to seem vindictive for the sake of it, and perhaps lessens the moral high ground by this.

[Rafterman]

I agree with that. I know the Nuremburg trials established that nobody can now hide behind the excuse that they were just obeying orders, but this is being applied retrospectively to these people who had no choice but to obey orders. Of course the Holocaust was vile beyond belief, but pursuing 90 year olds who were just footsoldiers starts to seem vindictive for the sake of it, and perhaps lessens the moral high ground by this.

Well you also have to consider that these Nazi hunters will be out of business in a few years anyway. So one has to wonder if they're just stretching it out as long as possible to keep the $$ rolling in.

[questionmark]

Well you also have to consider that these Nazi hunters will be out of business in a few years anyway. So one has to wonder if they're just stretching it out as long as possible to keep the $$ rolling in.

Nah, they just will burn some who have already died in effigy.

But that is not the point here, the point is that if you were complicit in a crime against humanity you should be named regardless if the penalty is negligible.

My only problem with this is that it only seems to apply to Nazis and Communists. Most of the rest is getting away with it.

[Ealdwita]

I don't have a problem with it if the evidence is sound. My issue is always that some of these guys are brought up on charges based on evidence that is circumstantial at best. I also think that a distinction can be drawn between an 18-year-old conscripted prison guard and a goose stepping card carrying member of the SS Death Head brigade.

It appears that the vast majority (if not all) these old men were members of the Wachbataillonen (made up primarily of non-German guards) rather than the SS-Totenkopfverband. I can't remember any junior members of Theodor Eicke's TK-Standarten being charged with war crimes since 1949.

(BTW - some of those '18-year-old conscripted prison guards' - especially the Georgians - were every bit as brutal as their pure-blooded Aryan comrades!)

I believe that they ought to stand trial, but I can't see lengthy prison terms serving any purpose.

[Rafterman]

It appears that the vast majority (if not all) these old men were members of the Wachbataillonen (made up primarily of non-German guards) rather than the SS-Totenkopfverband. I can't remember any junior members of Theodor Eicke's TK-Standarten being charged with war crimes since 1949.

(BTW - some of those '18-year-old conscripted prison guards' - especially the Georgians - were every bit as brutal as their pure-blooded Aryan comrades!)

I believe that they ought to stand trial, but I can't see lengthy prison terms serving any purpose.

I'm not giving a pass to anybody, believe me. If someone is guilty of atrocities, then by all means they should be tried and, if the evidence supports it, convicted.

[Bavarian Raven]

I agree with that. I know the Nuremburg trials established that nobody can now hide behind the excuse that they were just obeying orders,

Which is utter stupidity when not following orders will result with not only yourself shot, but your family "vanishing" as well... :/

(not justifying what was done by any means... but I hope you get my point).

[Kaa-Tzik]

Which is utter stupidity when not following orders will result with not only yourself shot, but your family "vanishing" as well... :/

(not justifying what was done by any means... but I hope you get my point).

It's a moral problem that I think cannot be applied across the board. In some parts of the world there will be people forced into fighting who will have no idea of were Nuremburg is, treaties, anything. Yet they could be hauled before a warcrimes court without even knowing they have committed a warcrime, as to them killing people is part of war and they know no different.