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petermattson

Ghosts and Time Travel

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I have theorized that time travel is not possible because if it was ever to be invented, someone would inevitably give away the secret of it while time traveling, thereby making it something that "always" existed. I realize this theory is problematic but I think it has its practical merits.

I presented this theory to my class, and one of my students posited that perhaps the technology of "invisibility" could also be invented and that would make it possible to time travel without being seen. This led to a discussion about the phenomena of "ghosts" being invisible time travelers.

A quick bit of "research" led me to the fact that my conclusion is not all that original.

http://redstarfilms.blogspot.com/2009/01/what-are-ghosts.html

Are there any deep thinkers willing to volunteer opinions about this idea?

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Makes more sense than dead people walking around.

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I have theorized that time travel is not possible because if it was ever to be invented, someone would inevitably give away the secret of it while time traveling, thereby making it something that "always" existed. I realize this theory is problematic but I think it has its practical merits.

I presented this theory to my class, and one of my students posited that perhaps the technology of "invisibility" could also be invented and that would make it possible to time travel without being seen. This led to a discussion about the phenomena of "ghosts" being invisible time travelers.

A quick bit of "research" led me to the fact that my conclusion is not all that original.

http://redstarfilms....are-ghosts.html

Are there any deep thinkers willing to volunteer opinions about this idea?

There is a thread back in 2007 about this. I wish I could find it.

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I have theorized that time travel is not possible because if it was ever to be invented, someone would inevitably give away the secret of it while time traveling, thereby making it something that "always" existed. I realize this theory is problematic but I think it has its practical merits.

I presented this theory to my class, and one of my students posited that perhaps the technology of "invisibility" could also be invented and that would make it possible to time travel without being seen. This led to a discussion about the phenomena of "ghosts" being invisible time travelers.

A quick bit of "research" led me to the fact that my conclusion is not all that original.

http://redstarfilms....are-ghosts.html

Are there any deep thinkers willing to volunteer opinions about this idea?

Actually the theory isn't a bad one at all, pretty good really. However, the thing you have to keep in mind is that technology increases in a stair-step manner. We knew that it was theoretically possible to go to the moon at the turn of the twentieth century, but we didn't have the technology available to make it happen. Einstein was able to show very complex theoretical ideas worked on paper but we are only just beginning to be able to verify them and make adjustments based on actual experimentation.

My point being, let's say you popped in from the twenty-sixth century in your time machine, found a top draw physicist and gave him the secret to time travel. That's great but what can he really do with it? Not much because you don't happen to have that 1.21 Terawatt Flux Capacitor which is the basis of the whole design. You see my point? You can't build something with something that you don't have and can't get because it hasn't been invented yet.

The idea of ghosts and UFO's be time travelers from the future is an old one, at least I've heard about it since I was a teen in the sixties.

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Makes more sense than dead people walking around.

I am not sure about that. We know nothing of what is Death and what may come after, so the possibilty of interactions between the living and the dead in some way cannot be ruled out though so far it cannot be proved as well. So, invisible time travel may not make more sens than the spiritism idea. We still have to explain how former pets time travel to our time.. We might have a hard time doing so.

Edited by sam_comm
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Theories are fun. After we make some assumptions first for any of this to be plausible, my problem would then be the fact that us humans are too flawed in our natural desires and tendencies to actually be good little time travelers and simply observe and never really interact or turn off that invisible suit to have some fun so to speak or even steal some item that later becomes extremely rare and valuable and to also withhold any sexual desires. Temptation is a powerful demon and for anyone to travel in time without flaw is tough to swallow considering so many questionable things that go on in the professional world of science and other various jobs. Control time travel and you could control the universe, it is not really something that any intelligent being should be allowed to have. At least humans anyway. There will always be that one guy that will want to kill Hitler or use time to travel the universe and possibly screw something else up for some other life forms. No, I don't like the idea of such at all, we are too greedy, too emotional, irrational, petty, self righteous.....you get the idea.

Edited by NightScreams
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Theories are fun to discuss, but i would rather go out and prove these theories if i could.

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Yeah, but you have to have something you can actually prove before you go out.

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Actually the theory isn't a bad one at all, pretty good really. However, the thing you have to keep in mind is that technology increases in a stair-step manner. We knew that it was theoretically possible to go to the moon at the turn of the twentieth century, but we didn't have the technology available to make it happen. Einstein was able to show very complex theoretical ideas worked on paper but we are only just beginning to be able to verify them and make adjustments based on actual experimentation.

My point being, let's say you popped in from the twenty-sixth century in your time machine, found a top draw physicist and gave him the secret to time travel. That's great but what can he really do with it? Not much because you don't happen to have that 1.21 Terawatt Flux Capacitor which is the basis of the whole design. You see my point? You can't build something with something that you don't have and can't get because it hasn't been invented yet.

The idea of ghosts and UFO's be time travelers from the future is an old one, at least I've heard about it since I was a teen in the sixties.

I do see your point. However, assuming a time machine is a physical thing, it should be able to operate at any time. Perhaps building one would be very difficult but my point was more that we would KNOW that time travel exists because someone would have observed it.

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I do see your point. However, assuming a time machine is a physical thing, it should be able to operate at any time. Perhaps building one would be very difficult but my point was more that we would KNOW that time travel exists because someone would have observed it.

Unless they were invisible.

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Without certain power sources,i.e. two small black holes,then no time travel.Those micro singularities have been created by CERN.So now GE is the contractor for building the machine.They are working on it.Just give them some time.(no pun intended)

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How about this one, in the future time travel is possible... to a point. How about they still have absolutely no way to create direct time-travel, but they have a way to create time travel by sending your mind/psyche back in time, which takes on a spiritual form, as it is still your mind floating around. Which in turn is the 'ghost' phenomenon which in turn makes us confused, which in turn give us entertainment like Ghost Hunters, thanks future people for giving us such an awesome bull**** show! I realize this is rambling but I'm just throwing the idea out there.

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I do see your point. However, assuming a time machine is a physical thing, it should be able to operate at any time. Perhaps building one would be very difficult but my point was more that we would KNOW that time travel exists because someone would have observed it.

How would knowing something exists change anything? We now know that there is nothing in the laws of physics that says time travel is impossible, therefore it's reasonable to assume at some point in time, obviously the future, someone has manage to build one or two. Does that change anything in the here and now? Not really. We still can't built one.

Reminds me of an old joke, a group of student were outside protesting because they access to the time machine being developed. They chanted, "What do we want?! TIME TRAVEL!! When do we want it?! IT'S IRRELEVANT!"

:w00t:

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I do see your point. However, assuming a time machine is a physical thing, it should be able to operate at any time. Perhaps building one would be very difficult but my point was more that we would KNOW that time travel exists because someone would have observed it.

Unless the travelers take precautions to a) make it harder for them to be observed and B) disguise their origin/the nature of their activity if they are observed.

I've always thought that the primary use in time travel (to the past, anyway) was more along the lines of gathering information than anything else. So postulate, if you will, a sophisticated recording device in nanotech scale disguised as (or carried by) a small flying insect, sent back in time to solve various riddles of the ages. We may have observed hundreds or thousands of these "time travelers" already, and thought nothing of them at all...

Oh, and keninsc:

Reminds me of an old joke, a group of student were outside protesting because they access to the time machine being developed. They chanted, "What do we want?! TIME TRAVEL!! When do we want it?! IT'S IRRELEVANT!"

:w00t:

I second that :w00t:.

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I do see your point. However, assuming a time machine is a physical thing, it should be able to operate at any time. Perhaps building one would be very difficult but my point was more that we would KNOW that time travel exists because someone would have observed it.

The real issue with the theory involves the nature of time travel. Assuming such a thing is possible, then it would be reasonable to assume you could not travel back in time further than the moment you switched on the time-travel device.

Why?

Because the universe did not contain any information about time travel before then*, and neither did your time machine exist (as a working time travel machine) before then. And time travel cannot happen in a universe without a time travel machine (which the universe was before you invented and switched on yours.)

* There is a way round this, but it relies on assuming time travel was invented (independently of your discovery of it) before you discovered it and invented your machine. And this just adds to the "assumption layers" necessary to justify the reasoning.

Edited by Leonardo
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If they were invisible that would not explain the ghost appearances.

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How would knowing something exists change anything? We now know that there is nothing in the laws of physics that says time travel is impossible, therefore it's reasonable to assume at some point in time, obviously the future, someone has manage to build one or two. Does that change anything in the here and now? Not really. We still can't built one.

Knowing for a fact that time travel exists would be pretty big news, right? If a time-traveler showed up today and was interviewed on live TV that would change things and the question of whether we could recreate the technology is secondary to the fact that we KNOW it exists. We don't know for sure that it can exist now. IF we did, that would change things.

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I think it would be so cool if time travel was possible

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Time travel possible in theory, therefore it is possible. Now, that doesn't mean it's practical. Last estimate I read suggested that you need to harness the Sun's entire output to make it happen, which is pretty darn impractical.

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Knowing for a fact that time travel exists would be pretty big news, right? If a time-traveler showed up today and was interviewed on live TV that would change things and the question of whether we could recreate the technology is secondary to the fact that we KNOW it exists. We don't know for sure that it can exist now. IF we did, that would change things.

Here's a news flash for you, it is possible. Now enlighten me, what's changed in our world?

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Here's a news flash for you, it is possible. Now enlighten me, what's changed in our world?

So, let me make sure I'm understanding you. You are saying that because something technological is not impossible, scientifically speaking, that it is the same thing as it having been accomplished? Manned space flight was known to be possible in the realm of aerospace science but it still changed the world when Yuri Gagarin actually did it.

I'll throw out another idea: There is undoubtedly intelligent life besides what exists on our planet. Definitive human contact with a specimen from another planet would change the world.

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No, I did not say that at all. Please reread the post for comprehension.

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How would knowing something exists change anything? We now know that there is nothing in the laws of physics that says time travel is impossible, therefore it's reasonable to assume at some point in time, obviously the future, someone has manage to build one or two. Does that change anything in the here and now? Not really. We still can't built one.

Here's a news flash for you, it is possible. Now enlighten me, what's changed in our world?

You are saying that because there is nothing that we know of that says time travel is impossible, it is reasonable to assume that a time machine will be built in the future.

Therefore SEEING a time traveler and having the technology explained by that time traveler wouldn't change anything because we already know it's not impossible?

I don't understand how you can definitively say that.

Showing someone from the 1930s film footage of a lunar landing would have changed things, no?

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You are saying that because there is nothing that we know of that says time travel is impossible, it is reasonable to assume that a time machine will be built in the future.

Therefore SEEING a time traveler and having the technology explained by that time traveler wouldn't change anything because we already know it's not impossible?

I don't understand how you can definitively say that.

Showing someone from the 1930s film footage of a lunar landing would have changed things, no?

That's because you intentionally not seeing the point.

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I think I go along with the disembodied theory as I'm pretty sure, being in a bipolar universe and taking prior theorists work into consideration, namely science fiction writers specializing in this theory, that the Universe abhors an imbalance but promotes discovery...

As for invisibility, well you don't need machines for that, just a mental exercise akin to positive visualisation, something I employed successfully when needing to use it and something I see happening to others who employ it unwittingly...but it works.

and no, I will not defend this statement....

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