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Elfin

EU weakened by Eastern European countries?

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Why did the EU expand to annex the Eastern European countries? We get Poles, Romanians, Bulgarians and all sorts of others flocking to our country in millions, taking jobs and using our social services. What benefit does this give to Britain?

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Because their economies are growing at a very fast rate.

Eastern_bloc_economies_GDP_1990.jpg

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However.... growth is relative to their Base economy and so is not an objective measure when people try to make comparisons with "Old European" countries where Growth is measured from a much higher Base level.

Not entirely sure what your graph is showing Ninja: is the "Y" axis average income per capita? I also note that the graph ends in 2002 so is more than a decade out of date.

Edited by keithisco

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Because Europeans can understand the notion of "potential".

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Why did the EU expand to annex the Eastern European countries? We get Poles, Romanians, Bulgarians and all sorts of others flocking to our country in millions, taking jobs and using our social services. What benefit does this give to Britain?

immigration can be seen as a benefit to the host country if the people who are arriving are skilled and professional. sadly the EU is used as cheap labour force. which means we see unskilled migrants arriving in the UK doing the unskilled jobs, the reality means we have our own citizens who will leave school and only real chance of employment is low paid unskilled work. a sector which is dominated by EU migrants while we allow our own unskilled to sit on the sidelines claiming benefits. - the true cost of immigration is now being felt across the country in all public services. - a government report now highlights in the coming two years there wont be enough school places. a 20% shortfall and this comes despite the government doubling the funding.

i can give you a snap shot. in my mums road there is an ever increasing number of polish migrants there is now fourteen polish families who have moved in to social landlord properties. each house as a minimum of three children. and you see them all going off to the local school. when their playing out in the street as kids do all you hear is polish spoken. nothing wrong in that. - but it highlights the problem the local school has, because a neighbour whose been a teaching assistant in the school for years says the polish children need to be given extra attention due to the language barrier. otherwise they fall to far behind the other kids, and you end up with the class at different stages of learning. which makes it hard work. so this is another cost to society.

surprisingly we are told migrants are hard working, but in truth their no more hard working than any other group - out of the families in my mum road who have moved in it seems only two of the families go out to work. - the other 12 families no one goes out to work, its got me thinking how the hell do you come to a new country get a house have access to all public / social services ect.. yet dont seem to be working. is it possible they receive benefits from Poland? or are they receiving them from here?

either way the true benefit to the economy of migration is near impossible to measure. but the government have come up with a figure of each migrant benefits the country by £0.02p now you have to ask yourself is that enough of a benefit. especially when you factor in the impact of mass immigration of which we have witnessed , no one can deny the affect on the working market for low paid unskilled workers. the government admits there is a negative effect on certain job sectors and public services. the Labour party who was responsible as even apologised for mass immigration. to little to late in my opinion. remember if you dared to discuss immigration you was seen as a swivel eyed racist. but i knew once the impact started to get felt across large parts of the country the attitude would change. and it has changed - now we see that all the main political parties have a policy on immigration and limiting it. funny how things change.

the figures we have to go off are 2008:. heres the government report if anyone wants to read it. http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld200708/ldselect/ldeconaf/82/82.pdf

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I can't talk for the rest of Europe, but in the UK if you read the last government report (2011) regarding immigrants and benefits, you'll see that non UK make only 5% of benefits claimants. Top of the league: 1.Pakistan, 2.Somalia, 3.India, 4.Ireland, 5.Bangladesh, 6. Iraq, 7.Poland, 8.Iran, 9.Portugal, 10.

https://www.gov.uk/g...t_nino_regs.pdf

A study (2009) shows that: "the study finds that immigrants are about 60% less likely than natives to receive state benefits or tax credits, and to live in social housing. Even if immigrants had the same demographic characteristics of natives, they would still be 13% less likely to receive benefits and 28% less likely to live in social housing."

http://www.voxeu.org...a8-migration-uk

Of course many come here to sponge off the system, but most immigrants are beneficial cause they come here to do jobs the 'natives' don't want to do. Work in a hospital for a while and you'll see that most cleaners and healthcare assistants are immigrants, just because the jobs are hard and the salaries poor.

Another thing I noticed about Eastern Europeans is that they never stay here forever, they seem to stay for a couple of years only and then they go back home. This is different from those countries topping the non-UK benefits claimant which seem to come here to stay.

Edited by Aggie
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Why did the EU expand to annex the Eastern European countries? We get Poles, Romanians, Bulgarians and all sorts of others flocking to our country in millions, taking jobs and using our social services. What benefit does this give to Britain?

Elfin,

I will quote one of your diplomat when asked about UK being against Croatia entering in EU.

paraphrised: "Why would be against Croatia in EU? They all import. "

Elfin its about economy. UK politicly will never accept Croatia. I hope this will change. Point is that your countryman Ricardo first describe positive effects of trading between countries. Brittish came on our sea and we profit from you already. You deliver us your money. So why not open doors to Brittish products and service into Croatia for example.

Also there is politic involved. I suspect UK asked from Croatia government that they built oil pumps in Adriatic sea.

But again main reason is profit. By both. If you want expanded answer I will provide one or two.

Big Bad Voodoo

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Elfin,

I will quote one of your diplomat when asked about UK being against Croatia entering in EU.

paraphrised: "Why would be against Croatia in EU? They all import. "

Elfin its about economy. UK politicly will never accept Croatia. I hope this will change. Point is that your countryman Ricardo first describe positive effects of trading between countries. Brittish came on our sea and we profit from you already. You deliver us your money. So why not open doors to Brittish products and service into Croatia for example.

Also there is politic involved. I suspect UK asked from Croatia government that they built oil pumps in Adriatic sea.

But again main reason is profit. By both. If you want expanded answer I will provide one or two.

Big Bad Voodoo

Hardly anyone in the UK knows or cares anything about Croatia, and they certainly have no animosity towards it, nor indeed any opinions at all. I doubt if many even know it's a country, or could place it on a map. I couldn't, but for somewhat different reasons.

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Hardly anyone in the UK knows or cares anything about Croatia, and they certainly have no animosity towards it, nor indeed any opinions at all. I doubt if many even know it's a country, or could place it on a map. I couldn't, but for somewhat different reasons.

Im aware Elfin. Its me L.

Okay I will quote one of my post to understand it better.

You know economist argued how South America countries living in the past. How they often see their glory days as revolution days.

Many economists think thats South America obstacle to progress.

Well same thing about UK. They live in British empire or ones who are "modern" live in ww1 or ww2. Thats far they cant reach.

As in South America case that is their obstacle to make a progress.

When Croatia announce their independence Germany was one of first countries who recognize Croatia.

We heard many time term "too early" by Brits, Dutch and France. That Germany didnt talked to their western neighbours.

That Croatia is under protection of Germany due traditional ties.

When Kosovo announced their independence German officals said: We will recognize Kosovo. But we will not repeat Croatia syndrome.

To smart person there is no need for further explaination.

One German politican who wanted to stay anonymus said to Croatian press that Germany was for Croatia in EU even in 1999.

But every time Germans talked to British and French there was funny situation.

"Every time I mentioned Zagreb they would mention Belgrade."

You see thats why I say that UK live in history. Because they cant do nothing to Germany, we will do it to Germany "children."

London still see Belgrade as leading power on Balkan while they forgeting science/economy and fact that USA and Germany sees Croatia as leading country.

That said, UK,Netherland, France become numb when USA decide to stop war in ex Yugoslavia and allow Croatian goverment to crush their enemy.

It was USA who helped us. Not Russia, not China Japan India, not Brazil, Mexico and not Europe.

Germany wanted to help but German hands were cuffed due Brittish, French and Netherland.

So Croatia skip Europe and there was Clinton and his administration.

Even now, when Croatia fullfilled all chapters, Austrian politician noted that Austria voted for Croatia only under condition that Turkey never enter in EU.

Why is that, when we know that Austria loved us, one of first countries who recognize Croatia, historic ties...?

Because of Brittish, French and Netherland- Austira cant show how much they have respect for Croatia. Becuase every time they mention Zagreb those three mention Belgrade.

Isnt that living in history?

Thats why many South American countries cant made progress.

Thats why UK is where it is and Poland,Estonia, Germany are where they are.

UK must let go their Yugoslavia project. Its over.

Why Im so sure?

Because when USA choose Croatia interests instead of Brittish interests you know its finito. :tu:

You choose wrong side and lost. Get over it. My advice to you is to seek friends in Croatia, not in history.

Britts are not flexible. And being unflexible in modern world is suicide. Go support dead projects. Youll see how far you will get. You are just not too strong to oppose USA and Germany.

Im happy that we declared independence with courage and not with support of EU. That showed our sovereignty from day one. And now when we are allies with USA who cares about those goverment who doesnt support us?

btw because all of that, Merkel didnt come to celebrate Croatia entering in EU in Zagreb.("too early" thing)

But be sure she is VERY happy.

Our love is secret love.

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And btw, Croatia was kingdom long before you ever create any organization. We were kingdom when on island you spoke French.

So those who dont know where is Croatia, I can only say that said more about them then about Croatia.

Big Bad Voodoo

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Im aware Elfin. Its me L.

Okay I will quote one of my post to understand it better.

I really don't think you know the British very well if you think that we live in the past. That might well be a stereotype abroad, but no one in Britain cares about that.

For many centuries, the main danger to British independence and security has come from Europe. This is an obvious truism, given geography. This factor has shaped our national character. We really don't care that much about Europe, and have dealings with it only when we have to. Instead, we went and spread our culture around the rest of the world, so that today, 2 whole continents, North America and Australia, and many other places besides, have a culture derived from the British Isles. This profoundly affects the present, and is not just part of history. We are part of the English-speaking world, the Anglosphere (which we created), which is probably the most influential culture in the world.

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And btw, Croatia was kingdom long before you ever create any organization. We were kingdom when on island you spoke French.

So those who dont know where is Croatia, I can only say that said more about them then about Croatia.

Big Bad Voodoo

The English kingdom was created in 927, as a merger of earlier kingdoms that had existed since around 500 AD.

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The English kingdom was created in 927, as a merger of earlier kingdoms that had existed since around 500 AD.

Those were not Brittish. I dont have books here. When I get to my library I will quote few quotes from Brittish historians. You spoke French on island after that too.

Anyway we have had Kingdom (Croats) 925. Not Illyrians. Not Romans. Not Picts. Not Celts. Not Avars.

Big Bad Voodoo

Edited by Big Bad Voodoo

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I really don't think you know the British very well if you think that we live in the past. That might well be a stereotype abroad, but no one in Britain cares about that.

For many centuries, the main danger to British independence and security has come from Europe. This is an obvious truism, given geography. This factor has shaped our national character. We really don't care that much about Europe, and have dealings with it only when we have to. Instead, we went and spread our culture around the rest of the world, so that today, 2 whole continents, North America and Australia, and many other places besides, have a culture derived from the British Isles. This profoundly affects the present, and is not just part of history. We are part of the English-speaking world, the Anglosphere (which we created), which is probably the most influential culture in the world.

Oh I understand you very well. And I wish I didnt need to study your view in such detail. I would rather look for Germany history or French history in such detail as I learnt about your land. When Germans called your land "Land without Music and Philosophy" you were third world country for Germany. You have had only Sheakspeare which was your icon. WW1 came from UK fears aswell from Germans.

And your culture is not most influental what so ever. Thats hilarious statement.

Yes you living in past when we talk about my land. You are not flexible. Ignoring changes and science. You are stubborn.

As I describe in my quoted post. Go support your dead project Yugoslavia you will see how far you will go.

You should look at France. Who also saw Serbia as their Balkan allies. As UK. But French realized new momentum. You didnt. So by that means, you are still in ww1.

Big Bad Voodoo

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Those were not Brittish. I dont have books here. When I get to my library I will quote few quotes from Brittish historians. You spoke French on island after that too.

Anyway we have had Kingdom (Croats) 925. Not Illyrians. Not Romans. Not Picts. Not Celts. Not Avars.

Big Bad Voodoo

The kingdoms were most certainly English (I know you said British, but I suspect you meant English. The British in those days were the Welsh.)

The earliest English kingdom was Kent, founded by Hengist and Horsa in around 455.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_kent

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Truth is common people dont care and dont see Croatia as your goverment.

On that I agree.

Big Bad Voodoo

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Then earliest Kingdom in Croatia was cca 800 BC. By your criteria.

Big Bad Voodoo

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Oh I understand you very well. And I wish I didnt need to study your view in such detail. I would rather look for Germany history or French history in such detail as I learnt about your land. When Germans called your land "Land without Music and Philosophy" you were third world country for Germany. You have had only Sheakspeare which was your icon. WW1 came from UK fears aswell from Germans.

And your culture is not most influental what so ever. Thats hilarious statement.

Yes you living in past when we talk about my land. You are not flexible. Ignoring changes and science. You are stubborn.

As I describe in my quoted post. Go support your dead project Yugoslavia you will see how far you will go.

You should look at France. Who also saw Serbia as their Balkan allies. As UK. But French realized new momentum. You didnt. So by that means, you are still in ww1.

Big Bad Voodoo

I didn't know the Germans called us a land without music and philosophy. I would call them a land that elected Hitler to power and gassed 6 million Jews. Somehow, I think we've got the better reputation.

If you think English literature is only represented by Shakespeare, you know nothing about it. As for music, why do Americans call it the British Invasion, I wonder?

I think you're right, though, to say that the British are stubborn. Better than being bendy and weak.

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Then earliest Kingdom in Croatia was cca 800 BC. By your criteria.

Big Bad Voodoo

They weren't Croats. There were no Slavs in the Balkans till abou 1600 years later.

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Elfin,

Yes that was a term long before Hitler. And before you have had philosophers while in Germany have had theatars and universities. As I said when you were 3rd world country for Germans.

So by calling Germans like you did is wrong. Nazi were Germans, Germans were not nazi.

Also then by your criteria we can call Brittish drug dealers, slavemasters, racists and inventors of concentartion camps.

You literature cant compare to German literature imho.

And you stubborness isnt good thing when it made you that you ignore facts and science.

Big Bad Voodoo

Edited by Big Bad Voodoo
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Elfin,

Yes that was a term long before Hitler. And before you have had philosophers while in Germany have had theatars and universities. As I said when you were 3rd world country for Germans.

So by calling Germans like you did is wrong. Nazi were Germans, Germans were not nazi.

Also then by your criteria we can call Brittish drug dealers, slavemasters, racists and inventors of concentartion camps.

You literature cant compare to German literature imho.

And you stubborness isnt good thing when it made you that you ignore facts and science.

Big Bad Voodoo

I wonder if you have heard of Oxfod University, the oldest university in the Western world. And where did Shakespeare perform his plays, if not in theatres?

Which empire was it that put an end to the slave trade?

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They weren't Croats. There were no Slavs in the Balkans till abou 1600 years later.

There were Celts, Slavs melted into existing local population.

For some reason Slavic languages and belief dominated (sure there are theories why but it’s not important here), leaving impression to this day our nations are Slavic only.

What was this thread about?

Aha, why EU took us in.

Because we are Europe. You can’t have EU with half of E missing.

Our economies are crap (the hilariously outdated graph on page 1 will make me laugh for the rest of the evening) but we do have resources. What we need is the motivation.

Never underestimate the motivated psycho that sleeps inside every seemingly lethargic eastern European.

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The leading EU individual nations are weakened because of the 'upcoming' Eastern European countries. The Netherlands is awash with cheap Polish labor, which is pricing the Dutch variant out of the market.

These Eastern Europeans do their thing and send the cash to their home country, and eventually return. This means jobs and monetary assets seeping out of the already battered economy through the crimes perpetrated by the financial market.

Uneven competition. Just like the outsourcing trend, allowed by the wonderful 'Free Market' concept. Just produce your products in third world countries, and sell them in the West for the highest price possible. Who cares if your producers make just enough to pay for a ****ty meal if they work 12 hrs a day. Who cares if the unemployment rate of the homecountry of such a 'multinational' is soaring. Who cares if corporations generate such a profit they are more wealthy than nations.

Isnt 'Freedom' a beautiful thing. Shame the real, personal/individual freedom is broken down at break neck speed. Wonder why that is..

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Elfin,

During Waterloo you were united with Germans against French. In early 1800s in Germany were 39 states which now consist Germany. Bavaria alone was as Belgium today. At that time Germany called England "Land without music and philosophy".

However they admired Shakspeare. But on else you were 3rd world country for them. Yes you have had Oxford. But Germany was state par excellence. They have had scientists, schools system, music (please check history of german music) and hard core philosophers.

In Germany flourished nice architecture, museums, cultural richness, Goethe. London didnt have that at that time. Germany was power.

Then Benjamin Disraeli feared about rise of new power -Germany.

Germany and England like eachother only because other isnt French. But when French and Napoleon were defeated things changed.

Prussians occupied France in Franco-Prussian war. Done crimes,shot civilians. It was revange.

German education was stuning. Freedom of knowledge. Hegel as professor.They were foundation of modern science. English were behind. Oxford was in middle ages. Humboldt was founder of Berlin university in 1810. Then Kaiser start to build military navy, battle ships.

They have right to have colonies same as British done it but British saw them as a treat.

For some in 1914 Germanophobia started but fact is that it started way before.

Riddle of sands its novel published in 1871. In it Germans inavding England. It show fear.

In 1906 it was published book Invasion 1910. It was serail in Dailymail. Dailymail was selled by sellers dressed like Prussian soldiers with spiked helmets. It was mass histeria. Also Boer wars (where British in my opinion done horrible crimes and Germans supported offical government) Crowe memo. Bismarck. Then WW1 happened.

Germans gave British art,literature,music,philosophy and fear of invasion.

German philosophy is greatest with Greeks, Romans, Dutch... Ofcourse Brittish have had philosophers. To me three big. But you need to set up into German skin.

Just look what wiki say about German empire:

"German Empire operated as an industrial, technological and scientific giant, receiving more Nobel Prizes in science than Britain, France, Russia and the United States combined."

So yes England was 3rd world country to Germans. Thats why you have mass hysteria of Germans.

Big Bad Voodoo

Edited by Big Bad Voodoo

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