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Jeremiah65

Truth leaking out? nerve gas points to rebel

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http://www.wnd.com/2...ints-to-rebels/

Former U.S. intelligence analysts claim current intelligence analysts have told them Syrian President Bashar al-Assad was not responsible for the Aug. 21 poison gas attack on the outskirts of Damascus, Syria, which killed 1,429 people, of whom more than 400 where children.

They claim the “growing body of evidence” reveals the incident was a pre-planned provocation by the Syrian opposition and its Saudi and Turkish supporters.

“The aim is reported to have been to create the kind of incident that would bring the United States into the war,” one former U.S. intelligence analysts said.

The analysts referred to a meeting a week before the Aug. 21 incident in which opposition military commanders ordered preparations for an “imminent escalation” due to a “war-changing development” that would be followed by the “U.S.-led bombing of Syria.”

Read the full article for more info...

I know I was suspicious of this of this possibility from the start. It has to be considered. Some will nod their head in agreement, some will disagree and some will froth at the mouth...but until they know beyond a shadow of a doubt, there can be no action. Even when they do know...still no military action or strikes, only humanitarian aid.

But the

flockofsheep_zpsf1a6a84d.gif

really don't want to know the truth. Football season just started and there is a Pawn Star marathon on.

Edited by Jeremiah65
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Obama just needs to swallow his pride and take the lumps. Almost 5 years of his presidency the same old sht.

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And if the rebels did that to their own people, to draw us into war with Syria, so we can help topple Assad,

and make the rebel leaders the new government in Syria, who will be mindful of human rights is laughable.

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I clicked on the link to WND, WorldNetDaily, and poked around the website looking for more information about the organization, none of the links at the bottom worked, so I went to Wiki. Here's what Wiki says: "WorldNetDaily (WND) is an American web site that publishes news and associated content from the perspective of U.S. conservatives and the political right." According to Wiki, some of the editorial contributors are Bill O'Reilly, Ann Coulter, and Pat Buchanan. It also promotes the notion that Obama is not an American citizen.

So it has an agenda, and is not the best, or possibly even a good, source of fair & unbiased news, as much of their news is going to be slanted in a way that promotes their politics. Which is fine, they're entitled, but people deserve to know important information about the news source in order to determine how much credibility to give it.

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this is wrong

"said that even British officials are aware that it wasn’t al-Assad who committed the atrocity.

Read more at http://www.wnd.com/2...PAgwtmKMxmqw.99

Parliament condemned the use of chemical weapons by Assad, they didn't want military intervention.

Then you have this

"Then, also, we chose to give President (George W.) Bush the benefit of the doubt, thinking he was being misled – or, at the least, very poorly advised,” the analysts said.

Read more at http://www.wnd.com/2...PAgwtmKMxmqw.99"

Who are these annalists?

Edited by The New Richard Nixon

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this is wrong

"said that even British officials are aware that it wasn’t al-Assad who committed the atrocity.

Read more at http://www.wnd.com/2...PAgwtmKMxmqw.99

Parliament condemned the use of chemical weapons by Assad, they didn't want military intervention.

Then you have this

"Then, also, we chose to give President (George W.) Bush the benefit of the doubt, thinking he was being misled – or, at the least, very poorly advised,” the analysts said.

Read more at http://www.wnd.com/2...PAgwtmKMxmqw.99"

Who are these annalists?

Those who speak out of their anus?

But on the other side, that does not change the fact that we still are quite in the unclear about who pulled this thing off, no matter who thy are condemning.

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I know it's not a great source, but it is a point of view that is just being swept aside it seems and special interest groups are not even considering this is an equal possibility.

I have to say that the point some have made that Assad had the upper hand and this would be a really stupid thing to do....is a solid point.

I have lost so much faith in the "information" we are given that I am a skeptic of all of it. The sad part is, even if they found that it was the rebels, they will probably not tell us.

I think we need to sit this one out. 12 years of war have taken it's toll on the people of this nation. We are so broke we cannot pay for our schools and firefighters. Our infrastructure is in horrible shape...they say we cannot afford these things...BUT...we can afford another conflict. Firing 1.5 million dollar tomahawks off. In Libya, there were days we fired a hundred of them a day. You do the math.

We cannot afford to help our citizens our cities and their services but we can drop over a 100 million a day in bombs and missiles.

Does no one else see anything wrong with this picture?

Edited by Jeremiah65
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I know it's not a great source, but it is a point of view that is just being swept aside it seems and special interest groups are not even considering this is an equal possibility.

I have to say that the point some have made that Assad had the upper hand and this would be a really stupid thing to do....is a solid point.

It is, esp. considering the fact the rebels gassed civilians back in March. Not only do they have the motive, but the means as well. We really need to wait and see what the UN investigators say. But, as of right now, there is no evidence that Assad did this. And mainstream media, is all fired up beating the war drums for this, and they won't even cover stories like the above. I thought the point of the media was to investigate, not drum up propaganda in support of our leaders.... :no:

I guess we know where their special interests lay.....

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I know it's not a great source, but it is a point of view that is just being swept aside it seems and special interest groups are not even considering this is an equal possibility.

I have to say that the point some have made that Assad had the upper hand and this would be a really stupid thing to do....is a solid point.

I have lost so much faith in the "information" we are given that I am a skeptic of all of it. The sad part is, even if they found that it was the rebels, they will probably not tell us.

I think we need to sit this one out. 12 years of war have taken it's toll on the people of this nation. We are so broke we cannot pay for our schools and firefighters. Our infrastructure is in horrible shape...they say we cannot afford these things...BUT...we can afford another conflict. Firing 1.5 million dollar tomahawks off. In Libya, there were days we fired a hundred of them a day. You do the math.

We cannot afford to help our citizens our cities and their services but we can drop over a 100 million a day in bombs and missiles.

Does no one else see anything wrong with this picture?

I agree but what if this keeps going for another 2 years? millions more would flee, the Syrian economy bankrupt. There are no winners in this one, both sides will lose

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I agree but what if this keeps going for another 2 years? millions more would flee, the Syrian economy bankrupt. There are no winners in this one, both sides will lose

Where you from? How about you guys deal with it. The Middle East has been fighting for thousands of years and have never matured. Just what the hell can be done about it? Nothing. We've come to that conclusion enough times.

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Where you from? How about you guys deal with it. The Middle East has been fighting for thousands of years and have never matured. Just what the hell can be done about it? Nothing. We've come to that conclusion enough times.

It is built into their physchy,they still retain their Tribal mentality.

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Where you from? How about you guys deal with it. The Middle East has been fighting for thousands of years and have never matured. Just what the hell can be done about it? Nothing. We've come to that conclusion enough times.

Where you from? How about you guys deal with it. The Middle East has been fighting for thousands of years and have never matured. Just what the hell can be done about it? Nothing. We've come to that conclusion enough times.

I was born in Venezuela but raised in England. Chavez before he did supported Assad, he and him are good friends, the same with Iran, we give you oil, you give us workers. Middle East may have been fighting for thousands of years religion, trade, strategics position.

You maybe correct in doing nothing but the longer we wait for a peaceful outcome, the harder the war will end.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rwandan_Genocide#United_Nations

The Rwandan Genocide...very few nations did anything but that part of the region is still not resolved, there has always been a threat of another war each year. that was because no one did nothing

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And if we do something a peaceful outcome will still be a long wait. Is Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan peaceful? What would make Syria any different?

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I am chasing down another seemingly 'wild" claim. It's not actually a "wild" claim, but it is so horrific, many people may fly into denial because it is too much to digest.

There is evidence that many of the children shown in the videos, were actually kidnap victims from Alawite communities to the north. Hundreds of women and children were kidnapped by the terrorist factions in the north.

Some of the info that is presented in these articles is eye opening and puts much of what we are accepting as "truth" into a critical spotlight.

I am researching the effects of Sarin Gas. One of the articles pointed out that Sarin Gas causes a yellow drool...what we see in the video is a white drool. Sarin Gas supposedly closes off the esophagus, but they pour water down the mouths of the victims because their throats were burning...this would essentially drown them. The premise to this is that the symptoms and treatment is not consistent with a Sarin gas attack. The speculation is it is a chlorine gas or something similar as the effects of that are much more in line with the video evidence.

Another interesting thing that is being speculated is that there were no women killed, only men and children. I do not know how to validate this as the blanket statements have all been "innocent men, women and children" but this article says no women have been shown in any of the video evidence. I don't know if I have the stomach to watch all the available video evidence to prove or disprove this statement.

Anyway, I will get back with you and let you know if I find any reason to believe these articles or not. On one hand, it is a conglomeration of circumstantial evidence. It is, however, presented in such a way that it is worthy of consideration.

Edit to add:

I have found contradicting evidence about the "no women killed". I found a source that says 150 women were killed (they do not say if they were Alawite or not). In Islam, the bodies of the women are separated from the men so that is why they do not appear in the videos...or so it would seem.

Edited by Jeremiah65
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I am chasing down another seemingly 'wild" claim. It's not actually a "wild" claim, but it is so horrific, many people may fly into denial because it is too much to digest.

There is evidence that many of the children shown in the videos, were actually kidnap victims from Alawite communities to the north. Hundreds of women and children were kidnapped by the terrorist factions in the north.

Some of the info that is presented in these articles is eye opening and puts much of what we are accepting as "truth" into a critical spotlight.

I am researching the effects of Sarin Gas. One of the articles pointed out that Sarin Gas causes a yellow drool...what we see in the video is a white drool. Sarin Gas supposedly closes off the esophagus, but they pour water down the mouths of the victims because their throats were burning...this would essentially drown them. The premise to this is that the symptoms and treatment is not consistent with a Sarin gas attack. The speculation is it is a chlorine gas or something similar as the effects of that are much more in line with the video evidence.

Another interesting thing that is being speculated is that there were no women killed, only men and children. I do not know how to validate this as the blanket statements have all been "innocent men, women and children" but this article says no women have been shown in any of the video evidence. I don't know if I have the stomach to watch all the available video evidence to prove or disprove this statement.

Anyway, I will get back with you and let you know if I find any reason to believe these articles or not. On one hand, it is a conglomeration of circumstantial evidence. It is, however, presented in such a way that it is worthy of consideration.

Yeah, I heard the same thing about Chlorine Gas.

Something I was able to find, that gives some good information:

While some pro-rebel sources were quick to claim it was sarin that had been used, others were cautious, among them Zanders.

"I remain sceptical that it was a nerve agent like sarin. I would have expected to see more convulsions," he said. "The other thing that seems inconsistent with sarin is that, given the footage of first responders treating victims without proper protective equipment, you would expect to see considerable secondary casualties from contamination – which does not appear to be evident."

Trapp too was cautious. "It is possible a gas was involved, but the images I've seen were not clear enough to see other symptoms beyond difficulty in breathing and suffocation. It certainly looks like some sort of poisoning."

Gwyn Winfield, editor of CBRNe World, a journal serving those tasked with responding to chemical, biological and nuclear events, was also dubious about the use of weapons-grade sarin given the apparent lack of contamination of first responders.

"You would expect to see first responders going down. But if the numbers we are hearing are correct, and a very large number of people have died, it is likely this was not a riot control agent [as has been suspected in some previous events] but something more toxic, perhaps some kind of cocktail containing an organophosphate agent. It doesn't look like phosgene or like hydrogen cyanide."

The Obama administration has stated that the usage or movement of a "whole bunch" of chemical weapons in Syria would cross a "red line" that would trigger fresh US intervention.

One chemical weapons inspector who is not in Syria told the Guardian he was doubtful the UN inspection team would gain quick access.

"I very much doubt the team will be given access to the site. The whole inspection has been delayed for weeks and months already over the formalities of visiting each site."

Many of symptoms seen on Wednesday could be caused by other substances, and chemical weapons inspectors will need to rule these out. Organophosphate pesticides can have similar effects to sarin, and several, including tetraethyl pyrophosphate (TEPP) and parathion, have caused deaths.

Missiles can strike chemical stores, releasing poisonous gases such as chlorine, which is used to sterilise water. Shells that carry sarin can also carry fuel-air explosives, which can cause suffocation; the munition produces a huge cloud of fuel that is ignited to produce a blast and suck huge amounts of oxygen out of the air.

Link: http://www.theguardi...ts-lethal-toxin

That's interesting about the children being kidnapped Alawites...The rebels have been kidnapping people. You can bet if they were, the rebels would have no problem wtih gassing them.... :no:

Edited by Burt Gummer
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I added an edit to my post above concerning the number of women killed.

The best I could do was find contradictory evidence. It could be true or it could be propaganda as well.

The bottom line I am finding as I try to do legitimate research on these things is...it's impossible to draw a firm conclusion. For every article or evidence I can find that says one thing, I can find something that contradicts it.

So, for the good or for the bad, the information and opposing disinformation is everywhere. I am going to take a conspiracy leap and say this is done on purpose. That way people "in high places" can say "we know the facts, trust us".

Point of curiosity...

Who is familiar with "The Voltaire Network"? I have came across them in my research and I cannot find anything that validates or condemns their credibility. Any one have an opinion?

Edited by Jeremiah65
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Who is familiar with "The Voltaire Network"? I have came across them in my research and I cannot find anything that validates or condemns their credibility. Any one have an opinion?

Don't know what their agenda is, but in the past they have called Hezbollah the "liberation theology of the Middle East".

So you figure it out

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Don't know what their agenda is, but in the past they have called Hezbollah the "liberation theology of the Middle East".

So you figure it out

That says quite a bit....I can safely put a huge flag beside their input.

The articles they had were basically condemning the rebels. Not necessarily praising or endorsing Assad but were saying that the info being propagated throughout western media is basically wrong and is war propaganda. For what it is worth...

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That says quite a bit....I can safely put a huge flag beside their input.

The articles they had were basically condemning the rebels. Not necessarily praising or endorsing Assad but were saying that the info being propagated throughout western media is basically wrong and is war propaganda. For what it is worth...

You always have to be suspicious of journalism that calls itself "non-aligned" or "Fair and Balanced". All humans have their prejudices and you cannot just take them off 'cause you are at work.

Edited by questionmark
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You always have to be suspicious of journalism that calls itself "non-aligned" or "Fair and Balanced". All humans have their prejudices and you cannot just take them off 'cause you are at work.

Very true...sadly. I know it is impossible for someone to report something and a bit of bias not creep in.

I am biased in my position on the Syrian situation. I do not want to be involved. I am very guilty of looking for reasons to support my point of view. I do like to think I am trying to be fair though. It was a tasty bit of info when I found the bit saying no women were killed...that added an unexpected dark twist to things...but then I found that the statement was probably bunk. I brought that out too.

I know that there are so many shades of grey to this situation. I can see why some people want to overthrow Assad. I can understand that "IF" he is the one that ordered the chemical attack, then something needs to be done to set an example so no one thinks they can do these things without serious repercussions.

But there is the rub for me. They have not proven to me that Assad pulled the trigger and their "little spanking" or "shot across the bow" is not going to be a serious deterrent in the future. We cannot take him out because international law forbids it...so...we have to punish everyone...that doesn't set well with me.

Bottom line for me is that I want our country to heal it's wounds, get back on it's feet and do what we need to do here at home. When we have made a decent recovery, we will be in a far better place to help things out and be a true leader. Where we are right now is not such a place.

But this is all just my opinion.

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Very true...sadly. I know it is impossible for someone to report something and a bit of bias not creep in.

I am practical, as long as they don't have a plan for the future they should stay out. One Iraq and one Afghanistan is enough.

So, as soon as they explain their plan I can tell you if I am in favor or against.

Edited by questionmark
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I am practical, as long as they don't have a plan for the future they should stay out. One Iraq and one Afghanistan is enough.

So, as soon as they explain their plan I can tell you if I am in favor or against.

The same plan they always use,go in under the Guise of introducing democracy and freedom to the people and pull out leaving everything factionalised and twice as bad as it was.

It worked in Iraq,Afghanistan and Libya.Mission accomplished.

Edited by shaddow134
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That says quite a bit....I can safely put a huge flag beside their input.

The articles they had were basically condemning the rebels. Not necessarily praising or endorsing Assad but were saying that the info being propagated throughout western media is basically wrong and is war propaganda. For what it is worth...

It's hard to know who to trust with the information coming out of Syria. It's either pro Assad or pro Rebels. :(

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Where you from? How about you guys deal with it. The Middle East has been fighting for thousands of years and have never matured. Just what the hell can be done about it? Nothing. We've come to that conclusion enough times.

Well only thing it could be done is that Arabs left Hebrews alone and vica versa. Also that they remove "theocracies."

Big Bad Voodoo

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The pictures of the victims of this atrocity look like a lot of very alive people playing dead for a photo-opp with ice cubes dropped on them for effect. I've never seen such a lineup of healthy and handsome corpses. The evidence sucks, and if common sense matters then the rebels have every reason to deceive the US to drag it into the war while Assad has every reason not to. Stupid pretense that Assad would use chemicals, leave the mess, and invite the inspectors in to study it.

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