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Still Waters

Global warming? No, actually we're cooling

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A cold Arctic summer has led to a record increase in the ice cap, leading experts to predict a period of global cooling.

There has been a 60 per cent increase in the amount of ocean covered with ice compared to this time last year, they equivalent of almost a million square miles.

In a rebound from 2012's record low an unbroken ice sheet more than half the size of Europe already stretches from the Canadian islands to Russia's northern shores, days before the annual re-freeze is even set to begin.

http://www.telegraph...scientists.html

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Obviously these scientists did not receive the memo that the global village idiot, Al Gore sent out. "The debate is over on man-made global warming..."

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Obviously these scientists did not receive the memo that the global village idiot, Al Gore sent out. "The debate is over on man-made global warming..."

I think that idiot has been replaced by the idiot John Kerry. Cooling until at least the middle of the century and all those super-advanced models missed it. How? It has been level or cooling for the last twenty years but that was just a minor anomaly too small to matter according to the big brains around here so I wonder what they'll say if it continues until mid-century? How do the models, that we should destroy our economy over, not even hint at this?

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Humans have survived before when it got really hot and when it got freezing cold, and they were cavemen wearing fur....I have no doubts we are so adaptable we can survive through practically anything.

Having said that, we do need to stop living like the Earth's resources are infinite, cause they are not, especially in the west where everything is so cheap we buy, break, throw away and buy again. We really need to improve our Re-use and Recycling skills....and of course, governments should help all public buildings and household get solar panels.

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A cold Arctic summer has led to a record increase in the ice cap, leading experts to predict a period of global cooling.

There has been a 60 per cent increase in the amount of ocean covered with ice compared to this time last year, they equivalent of almost a million square miles.

In a rebound from 2012's record low an unbroken ice sheet more than half the size of Europe already stretches from the Canadian islands to Russia's northern shores, days before the annual re-freeze is even set to begin.

http://www.telegraph...scientists.html

This is rebutted by the new NOAA annual report dated Aug 7 2013 which states that last year was one of the hottet on record, and temperatures of the permafrost reached record high values. Greenland's ice sheet was found to have melted at 4 times the average rate recorded between 1981 and 2010. While skeptics point out global temperatures have been leveling off in recent years, John P. Abraham, professor of thermal science at the university of St. Thomas in Minnesota says the NOAA report revealed systematic changes to Earth's overall climate."A lot of people claim that global warming has magically stopped, but the facts, and the Earth continue to disagree."

http://www.redorbit.com/news/science/1112917764/global-warming-not-slowing-noaa-report-080713/

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This is rebutted by the new NOAA annual report dated Aug 7 2013 which states that last year was one of the hottet on record, and temperatures of the permafrost reached record high values. Greenland's ice sheet was found to have melted at 4 times the average rate recorded between 1981 and 2010. While skeptics point out global temperatures have been leveling off in recent years, John P. Abraham, professor of thermal science at the university of St. Thomas in Minnesota says the NOAA report revealed systematic changes to Earth's overall climate."A lot of people claim that global warming has magically stopped, but the facts, and the Earth continue to disagree."

http://www.redorbit....-report-080713/

So there is more ice because it is warmer? :-*

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This is rebutted by the new NOAA annual report dated Aug 7 2013 which states that last year was one of the hottet on record, and temperatures of the permafrost reached record high values. Greenland's ice sheet was found to have melted at 4 times the average rate recorded between 1981 and 2010. While skeptics point out global temperatures have been leveling off in recent years, John P. Abraham, professor of thermal science at the university of St. Thomas in Minnesota says the NOAA report revealed systematic changes to Earth's overall climate."A lot of people claim that global warming has magically stopped, but the facts, and the Earth continue to disagree."

http://www.redorbit....-report-080713/

And the cold water from Greenland is the most probable cause of the faster freezing of the pole... it will continue for a few years- until the Greenland ice is gone... but by then the Prof will have moved because the water is up to his chin.

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So there is more ice because it is warmer? :-*

Greenland's melting ice sheet combined with a cyclic reduction in solar activity can have a short term cooling effect.This doesn't mean the problem is solved.Google younger dryas to see the same effect at the end of the last ice age

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Complexity in a chaotic system.

Br Cornelius

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Looking at the levels of greenhouse gases -- not just CO2 -- and it makes sense that the atmosphere should be warming. Variations in solar output and complications about the earth's orbit and the earth's albedo complicate matters, and may be that for periods we will get cooler, just not as much cooler as we would have otherwise.

One factor that I am curious about is the effect of water vapor in the air. I know it is an even more potent greenhouse gas that CO2 (or at least because there is so much more of it, its net effect is greater). As I understand it changes in humidity have less overall effect because the percentages are so much harder to alter -- having such a larger base, but I have heard that increasing evaporation may also be happening.

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Sea ice continued its late-season summer decline through August at a near-average pace. Ice extent is still well above last year’s level, but below the 1981 to 2010 average. Open water was observed in the ice cover close to the North Pole, while in the Antarctic, sea ice has been at a record high the past few days.

Sea ice extent for August 2013 averaged 6.09 million square kilometers (2.35 million square miles). This was 1.03 million square kilometers (398,000 square miles) below the 1981 to 2010 average for August, but well above the level recorded last year, which was the lowest September extent in the satellite record. Ice extent this August was similar to the years 2008 to 2010. These contrasts in ice extent from one year to the next highlight the year-to-year variability attending the overall, long-term decline in sea ice extent.

http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/

Not quite the impression the politically motivated telegraph article attempts to convey.

Br Cornelius

Edited by Br Cornelius
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When you catch a fever, because you are sick, does not your body go through sudden cycles of hot and cold, in order to fight off the illness that is attacking it?

The earth is no different. She has the ability to fight off man, but only if the Lord of the Earth allows it, and on August 17, 2013, after the stage was arguably set the year before with record drought, the earth indeed "spoke," when the largest wildfire in the history of the Sierra Mountains laid waste in the "Gold Country" of California.

You were warned in advance, both where this would occur, including the day it would begin.

.......To the Lord of the Earth, who stands before all living things: Now, send your flaming sword to the West, where it was seen in the sky before my birth, and lay it upon the ground. As it melts the land, make Manifest Destiny a memory, to be replaced with a new hope, where the word "security" is meaningless.
.....if I am forced or coerced into silence, the earth will speak for me, and she can make a lot of noise. She has no regard for men, except as instructed by the Lord of the Earth. Therefore, let her now read a line that is written upon the sword I have been given, spoken in a language that they will clearly understand. Let the letters glint in their eyes, so that they see through their blindness. Make waves with light, across the breadth of your face, until they are silent.

9709134730_ff5201fd8b_z.jpg

Edited by Raptor Witness

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http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/

Not quite the impression the politically motivated telegraph article attempts to convey.

Br Cornelius

Completely agree. Again the media is spinning the truth. If you asked any scientist after last years Attic sea ice result, most of them would have said "next year we will see an increase"

Have this author heard of regression toward the mean. Doubt it, as he has probably never studied statistics.

Edited by BFB
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The conservative right view the Earth as their personal toilet, without bothering to suspect that she might have a few royal flushes up her sleeve.

They should ask the U.S. military about the probability of this, because gambling the lives of seven billion is no small matter.

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Im just not looking forward to my fuel bill this winter...

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http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/

Not quite the impression the politically motivated telegraph article attempts to convey.

Br Cornelius

How convenient. The Telegraph presents its take on events without even referencing its sources. It is impossible to know what the IPCC reports actually say until they come out; thus, no way to rebut the Telegraph's opinions. And opinions is all they are.

And not only do we not know what the IPCC is actually saying, we don't have a clue which research articles they might have used. The Telegraph is twice removed from anything that could be called authoritative.

P.S. for Merc: I agree that the IPCC has way too much involvement from government lackies and not enough input from scientists. The science sometimes gets swept aside in favor of politics. You have to be careful when taking the IPCC's word for anything.

Doug

P.P.S.: Just got back from an attempted trip to the Boulder/Longmont area in Colorado, where they're having all those floods. I used to live in Longmont and still have a lot of friends there. I was planning to spent last weekend visiting, but when I called the motel to confirm my reservation, they told me their parking lot was under two feet of water and two rooms were flooded out - they were closed - and they're on the hilltop! I stayed in Limon, which is wet, but still in business. At any rate, Boulder Creek has dumped several feet of gravel in western Boulder (The 1921 flood dumped ten feet there.). In Lyons there used to be two little cafes where townfolk gathered - both gone. My former boss' house is history. My daughter has a friend who lives in Milliken. Her house is on high ground and unharmed, but is now on an island. She said she always wanted to live on an island, but this isn't what she had in mind. The town has been evacuated by helicopter.

Several dams have been overtopped and at least two have failed - one of those held back Golden Pond which is now completely underwater, dam and all.

Weather Service is calling this a 500-year flood. Does this have anything to do with global warming? Maybe, but it's a little hard to tell from just one event. We may have to redefine 100-year, 500-year, 1000-year floods. Anyway they got a year's worth of rain in three days and it has continued raining since. There are three more days of rain in the forecast with an inch forecast for each day. They may end up with a year-and-half's precip in just ten days. Stay tuned.

Doug

Edited by Doug1o29

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Completely agree. Again the media is spinning the truth. If you asked any scientist after last years Attic sea ice result, most of them would have said "next year we will see an increase"

Have this author heard of regression toward the mean. Doubt it, as he has probably never studied statistics.

ok, but it says nothing to AGW, why is it a surprise the arctic ice is decreasing given temperature has been slightly higher than the previous decades, it says nothing to the cause, nor to what will happen in the future, if the temperature drops then the ice will trend upwards, if the temperature rises the ice will trend downwards. why should i care?
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ok, but it says nothing to AGW, why is it a surprise the arctic ice is decreasing given temperature has been slightly higher than the previous decades, it says nothing to the cause, nor to what will happen in the future, if the temperature drops then the ice will trend upwards, if the temperature rises the ice will trend downwards. why should i care?

I agree, it says nothing to AGW.

However the reason why you should care, or let me rephrase that(Its up to you if you care about it) How will it affect you. If the artic is melting(which it is), changes to weather patterns will emerge. Because sea ice insulate from frigid artic air temperatures(Basically meaning sea ice traps the heat from the ocean below) This extra heat to the atmosphere will cause changed atmospheric circulation patterns in the artic. The heat makes the atmospheric pressure to drop meaning more low pressures. This will cause more storms and hurricanes which will defiantly hit the UK. Wasn't the last hurricane to hit the UK in 1987 or something like that? Well with increasing melt of the sea ice in the artic this kind of weather will become more frequent.

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Weather Service is calling this a 500-year flood. Does this have anything to do with global warming? Maybe, but it's a little hard to tell from just one event. We may have to redefine 100-year, 500-year, 1000-year floods. Anyway they got a year's worth of rain in three days and it has continued raining since. There are three more days of rain in the forecast with an inch forecast for each day. They may end up with a year-and-half's precip in just ten days. Stay tuned.

Doug

We cant blame these floods on GW. If we see more floods like this over the next couple of years/decades then we might have to take it into consideration, so far my opinion is no. GW cant be blamed for this just yet.

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We cant blame these floods on GW. If we see more floods like this over the next couple of years/decades then we might have to take it into consideration, so far my opinion is no. GW cant be blamed for this just yet.

The trend upwards is clearly discernible within the data for Northern Europe and North America. we do not have to wait to see if these floods are a symptom of AGW.

Br Cornelius

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I agree, it says nothing to AGW.

However the reason why you should care, or let me rephrase that(Its up to you if you care about it) How will it affect you. If the artic is melting(which it is), changes to weather patterns will emerge. Because sea ice insulate from frigid artic air temperatures(Basically meaning sea ice traps the heat from the ocean below) This extra heat to the atmosphere will cause changed atmospheric circulation patterns in the artic. The heat makes the atmospheric pressure to drop meaning more low pressures. This will cause more storms and hurricanes which will defiantly hit the UK. Wasn't the last hurricane to hit the UK in 1987 or something like that? Well with increasing melt of the sea ice in the artic this kind of weather will become more frequent.

but hurricanes are caused by temperature differentials not temperature, if the arctic air increases in temperature due to arctic sea warming the air then differentials between arctic air and lower latitudes would decline meaning less hurricanes.

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The trend upwards is clearly discernible within the data for Northern Europe and North America. we do not have to wait to see if these floods are a symptom of AGW.

Br Cornelius

You simply cannot blame the Colorado floods on GW or for that case AGW.

I still stand by my opinion that we cannot blame this on GW. Weather data from Colorado going back to the first measurements shows nothing like this have happened before in Colorado, there's only a 0.2% change of this happening every year and the number hasn't gone up since we first started our measurements.

When I look at the precipitation data for Colorado I cannot see how you can blame this on GW. Colorado have never witnessed so much rain before and the average precipitation data for Colorado have been steady for the last 100 years(1987-2012)(EDIT:Sorry my mistake, made a tiny error when I plotted in the data, the trend is actually downwards) you simply cannot blame Climate Change or Global warming the Colorado floods, YET.

When I see evidence in the data then lets have the talk. For the time being its simply not possible to conclude if its just Weather or Climate Change. My guess is its just weather.

I know a lot of scientists have already been out saying this is due to Climate Change however they are basing this on their opinions and not actual facts.

Edited by BFB

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but hurricanes are caused by temperature differentials not temperature, if the arctic air increases in temperature due to arctic sea warming the air then differentials between arctic air and lower latitudes would decline meaning less hurricanes.

Hurricanes are caused by pressure difference.

if you want me to explain how hurricanes form, I'll gladly do. Please let me know.

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