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shrooma

Poor using foodbanks have themselves to blame

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MP Michael Gove branded 'an absolute disgrace' by Labour leader Ed Milliband after comments about the poor-

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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2417578/Poor-forced-use-food-banks-Theyve-got-blame-says-Michael-Gove.html

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showing once again just how out-of-touch the conservative coalition is with the situation in Britain.

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Not the first time about a comment towards the poor

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Elitist arguments that smack of fascist thinking... which is where Europe is headed...

Edited by Jor-el

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Not the first time about a comment towards the poor

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.....and unfortunately, probably not the last either Richard.....

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I hope he doesn't have to take a short cut down an alleyway after dark one night.He looks the type who wears brown trousers,so nothing shows.

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I hate to say it, but I think I can kind of see what he was getting at. There are some families I know round here who constantly complain about a lack of money but still manage to take holidays in Florida, pay for Sky, games consoles etc. As a student, I'm well used to budgeting and stretching money as far as possible. But all I really need to do is see how much money is coming in this month, see what my rent is, decide how much of the remainder I want to spend on food and save whatever's left over.

Is it really so hard just to live within your means? It worked for long enough before big loans became common.

That said, the man's an idiot and I wish he would get fired. But that's more for the education side.

Edited by Setton
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I hate to say it, but I think I can kind of see what he was getting at. There are some families I know round here who constantly complain about a lack of money but still manage to take holidays in Florida, pay for Sky, games consoles etc. As a student, I'm well used to budgeting and stretching money as far as possible. But all I really need to do is see how much money is coming in this month, see what my rent is, decide how much of the remainder I want to spend on food and save whatever's left over.

Is it really so hard just to live within your means? It worked for long enough before big loans became common.

That said, the man's an idiot and I wish he would get fired. But that's more for the education side.

If a person goes to a food bank its because he doesn't have money at all to feed himself and his family, it's not about living within your means...

People like that do not go on holiday, they do not eat out at the local restaurant and they certainly don't have money for game consoles... they will have sold those things to pay for their next monthly rent.

I wonder how anyone can live on 300 Euros a month when the rent is at least 250 Euros. And there are many earning even less.

Without charitable institutions people would by dying of starvation in the worlds richest economies.

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If a person goes to a food bank its because he doesn't have money at all to feed himself and his family, it's not about living within your means...

People like that do not go on holiday, they do not eat out at the local restaurant and they certainly don't have money for game consoles... they will have sold those things to pay for their next monthly rent.

I wonder how anyone can live on 300 Euros a month when the rent is at least 250 Euros. And there are many earning even less.

Without charitable institutions people would by dying of starvation in the worlds richest economies.

There are some, even most, who match your description. But there are still a few who just don't seem to have any concept of how to handle money.

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i'v heard alot about these food banks but im yet to see one or find anyone who as visited one. before the recession and under a labour government there was 10% more food banks than today. surprising i know.

how many of these people who visit food banks are taking advantage? i just fail to see how or why people need to use a food bank. how can people fall into such a state, i mean, we have a benefits system which looks after you. if you find yourself out of work, you sign on as unemployed, receive £71.70 a week, you get your rent paid by the state, you get your council tax paid for by the state. all prescriptions free by the state. no doubt its hard to lose a job and get just £70 pound a week but surly people can sit down with a pen and paper and work out their out goings. - Food water Heating are the essentials. not the latest smart phone, SKY TV, or Alcohol or Cigarettes, but then again, maybe you can afford some of these non essentials if you go to a food bank. because essentially your not paying for food.

i think its a insult to the 2 million people who are on jobseeking benefits but dont have the need to visit a food bank, Why? because they cut their cloth accordingly. its all about life style choice, personally i'd do one of the stigmatised jobs before ever going to a food bank. i'd rather earn the minimum wage working a 30 hour week than linger on unemployment benefit, at least i'd be earning £185 with no tax paid and claiming £20 to £50 in tax credits and no need to visit a food bank.

people need to remember we live in a globalised world, we are competing with the likes of china India. we have to be flexible in our approach. if we want mass manufacturing and employment here in the UK we have to adapt. Germany understands this, not having a minimum wage they keep a flexible work force which appeals to companies.

Edited by stevewinn
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There are some, even most, who match your description. But there are still a few who just don't seem to have any concept of how to handle money.

There are always leaches who abuse the system, but I don't think people should suffer because of a few ingrates.... as for those who don't know how to handle money we find them in all strata of society, I know at least 2 guys who earn over 5000 Euros a month and still can't get to the end of that month without using their credit cards....

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i'v heard alot about these food banks but im yet to see one or find anyone who as visited one. before the recession and under a labour government there was 10% more food banks than today. surprising i know.

how many of these people who visit food banks are taking advantage? i just fail to see how or why people need to use a food bank. how can people fall into such a state, i mean, we have a benefits system which looks after you. if you find yourself out of work, you sign on as unemployed, receive £71.70 a week, you get your rent paid by the state, you get your council tax paid for by the state. all prescriptions free by the state. no doubt its hard to lose a job and get just £70 pound a week but surly people can sit down with a pen and paper and work out their out goings. - Food water Heating are the essentials. not the latest smart phone, SKY TV, or Alcohol or Cigarettes, but then again, maybe you can afford some of these non essentials if you go to a food bank. because essentially your not paying for food.

i think its a insult to the 2 million people who are on jobseeking benefits but dont have the need to visit a food bank, Why? because they cut their cloth accordingly. its all about life style choice, personally i'd do one of the stigmatised jobs before ever going to a food bank. i'd rather earn the minimum wage working a 30 hour week than linger on unemployment benefit, at least i'd be earning £185 with no tax paid and claiming £20 to £50 in tax credits and no need to visit a food bank.

people need to remember we live in a globalised world, we are competing with the likes of china India. we have to be flexible in our approach. if we want mass manufacturing and employment here in the UK we have to adapt. Germany understands this, not having a minimum wage they keep a flexible work force which appeals to companies.

One of the little quirks about th UK system is that the incentive to stay jobless and poor is quite big. Anyone earning over a certain ammount loses all government support including access to government housing, healthcare and education. To many it is better to earn less or not even work at all since the system actually encourages them to continue doing that.

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There are always leaches who abuse the system, but I don't think people should suffer because of a few ingrates.... as for those who don't know how to handle money we find them in all strata of society, I know at least 2 guys who earn over 5000 Euros a month and still can't get to the end of that month without using their credit cards....

Exactly. So saying that some of the people at food banks are there because of their own bad decisions is true. Which is what Gove is supposed to have said.

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Miss Berger, Labour front bencher, said 'People i have met are ashamed to have to turn to food banks'.

This may explain why you have yet to meet or hear of anyone you know using them, shame.

She went on to say she 'vehemently disagree that is is because they have mismanaged their finances'.

The C.A.B, Chief Executive, Gillian Guy said 'It is appalling to suggest the rise of food banks is due to poor financial management.

It's a smack in the face to families who are working hard but can't make ends meet, leaving them with no other option but to use food banks to feed their families.

Those comments of Mr Gore are completely misjudged'.

The Director of Oxfam, Chris Johnes, UK Poverty Programme, said 'Thousands are now turning to food banks but they do not so out of choice, they do so when they have nowhere else to turn.

The staggering rise in the numbers of people using food banks is down to failings in the benefit system, too many low paid jobs and rising prices that are dragging huge numbers into poverty'.

And in may the report by the Church Action On Poverty and Oxfam, suggested 'up to half of those seeking help were doing so as a direct result of having benefit payments delayed, reduced or withdrawn'.

One factor behind the increase on those using emergency help- the hidden hungry- include rising food prices, unemployment and increased energy costs.

I think these responses pretty much cover my thinking on the matter.

It would seem our government is not looking after the most needy…Yet again blaming those who have no power or voice to fight back.

It is not the first bully government however. Ashamed of them, i am, the likes of Mr Gore and their ways but i can not say i am shocked nor surprised only disappointed at their stupidity.

Edited by Blue Star

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Miss Berger, Labour front bencher, said 'People i have met are ashamed to have to turn to food banks'.

This may explain why you have yet to meet or hear of anyone you know using them, shame.

She went on to say she 'vehemently disagree that is is because they have mismanaged their finances'.

The C.A.B, Chief Executive, Gillian Guy said 'It is appalling to suggest the rise of food banks is due to poor financial management.

It's a smack in the face to families who are working hard but can't make ends meet, leaving them with no other option but to use food banks to feed their families.

Those comments of Mr Gore are completely misjudged'.

The Director of Oxfam, Chris Johnes, UK Poverty Programme, said 'Thousands are now turning to food banks but they do not so out of choice, they do so when they have nowhere else to turn.

The staggering rise in the numbers of people using food banks is down to failings in the benefit system, too many low paid jobs and rising prices that are dragging huge numbers into poverty'.

And in may the report by the Church Action On Poverty and Oxfam, suggested 'up to half of those seeking help were doing so as a direct result of having benefit payments delayed, reduced or withdrawn'.

One factor behind the increase on those using emergency help- the hidden hungry- include rising food prices, unemployment and increased energy costs.

I think these responses pretty much cover my thinking on the matter.

It would seem our government is not looking after the most needy…Yet again blaming those who have no power or voice to fight back.

It is not the first bully government however. Ashamed of them, i am, the likes of Mr Gore and their ways but i can not say i am shocked nor surprised only disappointed at their stupidity.

when i hear people say our government doesn't look after the most needy, who are the most needy, because as far as i can see we have a benefits system to look after the most needy. and its there for those needy to take advantage of it.

The excuses used by Charities and political opportunist grinds my gears, excuse after excuse. i think this Tory government have their finger on the pulse when it comes to benefits, including the bed room tax, and Gove as his finger firmly on the pulse when it comes to food banks. they hit a nerve and people dont like that, people want staright talking polticians and when they do, certain people dont like it which causes a outcry.

If people who visit food banks have a payment delayed, they can get a crisis loan, or hardship money off the benefits agency.

if they have had their benefits reduced they will still receive the minimum allowance by law.

If they've had their benefits withdrawn its because they are not entitled to benefits and have a means of which to support themselves.

in the United Kingdom no-one goes hungry. unless they choose to.

what more can a government do. we have a benefits system second to none.

Edited by stevewinn

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I have seen young mums try to get more benefits ie by having more kids, like 3 or 4.

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I'm trying to imagine Gove explaining to Cameron and Osbourn the concept of "poor", or "work".

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I'm trying to imagine Gove explaining to Cameron and Osbourn the concept of "poor", or "work".

Why not? He's a journalist who thinks he understands education so experience obviously doesn't count for much among politicians.

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Why not? He's a journalist who thinks he understands education so experience obviously doesn't count for much among politicians.

It's sarcasm

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It's sarcasm

I know. My reply wasn't exactly serious.

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I know. My reply wasn't exactly serious.

Ah, I see now. I just read it in one glance before and took it at face value. I guess wars can be started for less :)

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I don't know about the UK, as I live in the US.

But the situation seems similar. Some people clearly abuse social welfare, while other's clearly need it.

At one point, my mother was a State Welfare Investigator for Florida, and uncovered rampant fraud; specifically certain groups of people "passing babies" with fraudulent birth certificates around to their friends so they could qualify for even more monthly assistance.

My mother, being in that position for only a year, was threatened with both her life and children by the fraudsters. So, she quit.

That was back in the early 1970's. At that time(and perhaps still even now, I don't know) there was no requirement at all for a newborn to be assigned a Social Security number.

As such, it was/is very easy for an "on-the-take" doctor to sign-off on several birth certificates to multiple "non-parents" in order to increase monthly welfare payments.

In other words, a family that actually only really have 2 children, would now have 4, 5 or 6, on "legal" documentation, though completely fraudulant.

More disturbing was the fact that there appeared(not proven) to have been one or more "insiders" at the Florida welfare department, which notified certain "families" of a pending on-site inspection. What the fraudsters would do then is to move the babies to the house prior to the inspection.

One time, my mother remembers seeing the same two babies at one house, yet were at a completely different house the prior month.

She reported this, and the death threats started.

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Exactly. So saying that some of the people at food banks are there because of their own bad decisions is true. Which is what Gove is supposed to have said.

But the problem does not lie with the people, it lies with the methodology used by the government itself. It can't complain if it is offering the incentive to stay on welfare.

But that has nothing to do with foodbanks, whose sole purpose is to provide sustenance for those who don't have food.

In Portugal, the largest foodbank is not sponsored by the government, it is an institution whose existence depends on the offerings of the entire national poulation, which donates a portion of what they buy at the supermarket.

This goes directly to where it is most needed, by those who are unemployed, or otherwise in great need.

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But the problem does not lie with the people, it lies with the methodology used by the government itself. It can't complain if it is offering the incentive to stay on welfare.

But that has nothing to do with foodbanks, whose sole purpose is to provide sustenance for those who don't have food.

In Portugal, the largest foodbank is not sponsored by the government, it is an institution whose existence depends on the offerings of the entire national poulation, which donates a portion of what they buy at the supermarket.

This goes directly to where it is most needed, by those who are unemployed, or otherwise in great need.

You talked through to that exact conclusion yourself. If you now refuse to see it, we have nothing more to discuss.

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You talked through to that exact conclusion yourself. If you now refuse to see it, we have nothing more to discuss.

What do I refuse to see exactly?

Either one supports foodbanks or one does not, I do support them, they are the last line of defense agsinst an uncaring society and government more concerned with profit than the wellbeing of their fellow man.

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What do I refuse to see exactly?

Either one supports foodbanks or one does not, I do support them, they are the last line of defense agsinst an uncaring society and government more concerned with profit than the wellbeing of their fellow man.

Not the topic.

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