Join the Unexplained Mysteries community today! It's free and setting up an account only takes a moment.
- Sign In or Create Account -
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 2
danielost

how much should we cut defense.

68 posts in this topic

This question got lost in another thread or I just lost it.

At the end of world war two. Our government came up with great idea called the cold war. This idea had three perposes, so far they have all worked. First they wanted to make russia spend themselves into a hole, which they did. Second they didn't want a new depression at the end of world war two like we had at the end of world war one. This also worked until reagon won the cold war for us. Welcome, to the recession caused by the end of the cold war. Third they didn't want to ro sie the ribbiter that she had to go back into the kitchen, because the men were getting out of the military. In othe r words keep thed military at war during peace time.

This was all so we wouldn't end up fighting the soviets in a real war. As I said it all worked like it was supposed to.

But, a free nation with out an enemy cannot maintain a defense.

So this brings us back to the question. How much should we cut our defense spending. I will answer this with another question. Do we still have any threats to defend ourselves from.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We should go back to conscripted service. I don't agree much with Charlie Rangel but on THIS one he's correct. If main street is susceptible to the losses then the pols will better represent us. As for $... we seem to think that we can almost nuke them from space anymore and it just isn't so. War still has to be done yard by yard and there is no cheap way to do it and be safe.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Cut a billion from the budget, there's still several billion there and I'm sure the teachers in your country would love some extra funding.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

how much should we cut defense

Define "defense" because that's another word like "war" that our illustrious leaders have been getting wrong.

If you're referring to cuts to military, I think we should cut the lion's share of our foreign policy which will save hundreds of billions. I would never tolerate such a massive transfer of wealth to any foreign region in the world again like we've seen transferred to the Middle East due to oil. We should build some new VA hospitals, and another squadron of F-22s. I can think of better spending priorities for our troops than what they're getting. I'm tired of "using the military". These politicians need to use their brains and their silver tongues before using their bombs. Obama should get his pencil out and study the traumatic brain injuries our troops are coming home with. But what does he do instead? He just avoids the moral question of war altogether by making everything into an airstrike.

3 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's not the defence budget that America needs to worry about. It's the offence budget.

5 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The best offense is a good defense..

Speaking frankly, the US spends more on defense than all other countries in the world combined.

Paranoia? Possibly. Possibly not.

Wearer of Hats has it right; cut a billion and apply that to education.

Education and defense should be two of the top concerns for this country.

Of course, I'm realizing our government might not want educated citizens.

They pose more of a threat to reduce the amazing benefits politicians get via the taxes of the people.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've never heard that the purpose of education is to avoid paying taxes, but if that's the case, it's even more reason to leave education up to the private sector. Govt schools are known to produce obedient workers ready to pledge allegiance and consume, not tax revolutionaries ready to overturn the Income Tax.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The best offense is a good defense..

Speaking frankly, the US spends more on defense than all other countries in the world combined.

Paranoia? Possibly. Possibly not.

Wearer of Hats has it right; cut a billion and apply that to education.

Education and defense should be two of the top concerns for this country.

Of course, I'm realizing our government might not want educated citizens.

They pose more of a threat to reduce the amazing benefits politicians get via the taxes of the people.

I'd like to know how much we spend in foreign aid compared to other countries? probably the same story.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd like to know how much we spend in foreign aid compared to other countries? probably the same story.

seek and you will find

The U.S is the top foreign aid giver in the world. At 30.2 billion.

http://www.theguardi.../aid-oecd-given

The other top contributors are U.K(13billion) France(13 billion), Germany(12.7billion) and Japan(11billion)

And that doesn't count war related foreign aid, after that the U.S is over 50 Billion

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/12/19/us-usa-aid-idUSTRE7BI1KO20111219

.

Edited by spartan max2
2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd like to know how much we spend in foreign aid compared to other countries? probably the same story.

Max already linked you to Foreign Aid.

Here's a link to total military spending.

http://en.wikipedia....ry_expenditures

Here's an image depicting military spending, including defense, with the US verus the rest of the world in 2012.

http://www.ritholtz....ry-spending.jpg

Edit: I may have exaggerated; the US doesn't spend more than the entire world combined.

But it spends more than China, Russia, and Europe combined.

Edited by Hatake Kakashi
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Max already linked you to Foreign Aid.

Here's a link to total military spending.

http://en.wikipedia....ry_expenditures

Here's an image depicting military spending, including defense, with the US verus the rest of the world in 2012.

http://www.ritholtz....ry-spending.jpg

Holy ****! I knew our military spending was high but really 682 billion!

That's insane.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Holy ****! I knew our military spending was high but really 682 billion!

That's insane.

Sir Wearer of Hats was onto something when he said we could decrease our spending by a billion..

Or several dozen billion..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sir Wearer of Hats was onto something when he said we could decrease our spending by a billion..

Or several dozen billion..

I know that it'll sound crass - but a billion from foreign aid as well - 29 billion in foreign aid is still a stonkingly huge amount of money HOPEFULLY doing a lot of good in the world.

2 billion spent on social services and education.... imagine the changes that could be made.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know that it'll sound crass - but a billion from foreign aid as well - 29 billion in foreign aid is still a stonkingly huge amount of money HOPEFULLY doing a lot of good in the world.

2 billion spent on social services and education.... imagine the changes that could be made.

Unfortunately, much of that foreign aid goes to people who want to kill us.

Or corrupt foreign regimes that eventually go through several revolutions (Egypt)..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Considering that US defense spending exceeds the defense spending of the next 10 highest spending countries combined I think at least a 50% cut would be a good start

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Our Constitution charges this government to Provide for the Common Defense. It is one of five charges, so defense should be at the very least, 20% of the budget. At some point after the end of the Cold War, we reached an apex of spending more than the next 20 to 25 nations combined. That was roughly something between $600 and $700 billion. The benefit of that was that no one could dare to even look funny at us. With our interests far and wide gave an added benefit of relative peace throughout the world. It didn’t prevent all conflict but it kept another world war or worse in check.

There are a few axioms that I abide by. First, with 7 billion people on this planet, you can’t make everybody happy. It can’t be done. Think about it. This means that there will always be barbarians at the gate waiting to destroy everything that is dear to you. Secondly, the best defense is a strong offense. In other words, don’t wait for the other guy to get in the first shot. So called “fair play” is an invention of Hollywood. The only rule in war is to win. Three, it is always better to have the initiative. This always forces your enemy to react to you and you deal from a position of strength. You never want to be in a position of weakness. The only way to win is to have boots on the ground. No matter how technologically advanced one nation is, it still takes a human to go into harms way to get the job done.

We can look to Ancient Rome to see how a perfect storm can collapse a mighty empire. Both from internal and external forces brought on by a curse of Ignorance and Apathy. First by Socialist values that destroyed the foundation of a Republic, then the lack of will to do what was necessary to see to the survival of the Empire. We are currently on the same path, making the same mistakes that Rome made. We have the benefit of history but one must first learn how to learn from history. Our leadership has now under-reacted to the point of inaction or incorrect action. We now only spend more than the next 16 nations combined. We are spending less and others are spending more. This should be setting off red flags galore. This sense of parody among the nations is just the beginning of seeing a return to the arms race of the 1870s onward. And we know what became of that. If Carter had supported the Shah, we would not be dealing with the Iran of today. If we had stayed in Iraq, what is going on in Syria would not be happening. We are simply not learning.

Threatening to do a small pin prick attack on Syria does more harm to our image rather than Assad’s regime. It makes us the target. And Obama is going to play Putin’s game and make us weaker. And worrying about $30 billion in foreign military aid is kind of asinine when the budget is over $3 trillion (??) and the debt is $16 trillion. This is just more evidence that we are heading toward that perfect storm. But to get to the gist of the subject, I don’t see how we can afford to cut the defense budget anymore than we already have. We should be adding to it. Nations advance in this world based on one’s military might and not welfare programs. Humans are supposed to be self sufficient.

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know that it'll sound crass - but a billion from foreign aid as well - 29 billion in foreign aid is still a stonkingly huge amount of money HOPEFULLY doing a lot of good in the world.

2 billion spent on social services and education.... imagine the changes that could be made.

Most of the money goes to dictatorships like china. Funny isn't it we borrow money from china o turn arounyd and give'' it back.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Most of the money goes to dictatorships like china. Funny isn't it we borrow money from china o turn arounyd and give'' it back.

This is absolutely incorrect. Foreign aid in 2012 amounted to 23 billion dollars. This sounds like a lot until you compare it to the 857.7 billion budgeted for defense last year.Foreign aid is often the only leverage we have in negotiating with other countries and in many countries millions would starve without our help.

Top ten recipients of US aid:

1) Israel 3.075 B

2) Afghanistan 2.327 B

3) Pakistan 2.102 B

4) Iraq 1.683 B

5) Egypt 1.559 B

6) Jordan 676 M

7) Kenya 652 M

8) Nigeria 625 M

9) Ethiopia 580 M

10) Tanzania 531 M

Cutting all of this would cause hardship and starvation for millions and be nothing compared to what we spend on defense. We spend money on defense as if we were still in an arms race with the Russians. It is madness and will lead to our demise. We cannot afford to be the worlds cop nor should we try. In comparison to today's defense spending in 1970 while at war in Viet Nam and at the height of the cold war our defense budget adjusted for inflation was 4.47357 B. This is madness

Edited by spacecowboy342

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

First, I didn't say we spent more in foreign aid than defense. I said most of our aid goes to dictatorships like china. Right now we can't afford to feed our own people who need help. Didn't you hear obama cut 700 billion from mdeicair and give it to obama care. What is he doing about that. He is signing as many people as he can as fast as he can on foodstamps, with no way to pay for it. Can't come from taxes. Too few are working and those who are, are only working part time. Unemployment isn't due jobs, but due to hopelessness.

I agree that defense needs to be cut, but at what percentage. Then you have both senaters and congressmen, both republican and democrat, who don't want to go home and tell a state a base in that state is closing. In a state like utah the military is the largest employer.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've never heard that the purpose of education is to avoid paying taxes, but if that's the case, it's even more reason to leave education up to the private sector. Govt schools are known to produce obedient workers ready to pledge allegiance and consume, not tax revolutionaries ready to overturn the Income Tax.

And the private sector is different how? Most private schools in Australia at least tend to be Catholic brainwashing institutions. Schools are known to produce obedient workers, and waving the magic wand of privatisation will not do a single thing to change that. The entire education system needs to be torn down, rethought and rebuilt.

We can look to Ancient Rome to see how a perfect storm can collapse a mighty empire. Both from internal and external forces brought on by a curse of Ignorance and Apathy. First by Socialist values that destroyed the foundation of a Republic, then the lack of will to do what was necessary to see to the survival of the Empire. We are currently on the same path, making the same mistakes that Rome made. We have the benefit of history but one must first learn how to learn from history. Our leadership has now under-reacted to the point of inaction or incorrect action. We now only spend more than the next 16 nations combined. We are spending less and others are spending more. This should be setting off red flags galore. This sense of parody among the nations is just the beginning of seeing a return to the arms race of the 1870s onward. And we know what became of that. If Carter had supported the Shah, we would not be dealing with the Iran of today. If we had stayed in Iraq, what is going on in Syria would not be happening. We are simply not learning.

Your biases are showing quite glaringly. Name me one thing the Romans did that was at all socialistic. Romes strength declined when it's armies did, after the advent of Christianity many soldiers renounced violence, which led to the Roman empire hiring more and more mercenaries to do their fighting. Christianity's focus on otherworldly things also led to a decline in the Roman's sense of civic duty - the less people were interested in serving Rome the weaker it became. And even if Rome had it's legions at strength during the Gothic invasion there is no guarantee that it would have stood. Roman legions were not indestructible, and neither is the American military.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just reduce the DoD to DEFENSE level, you would not have to wonder how much to cut then.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And the private sector is different how?

In that it's the only real productivity in our economy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I disagree with totally "private" education. However, the Fed needs to get it's greedy and manipulative fingers out of it. I'd wager that nearly all if not all the USA citizens on this board right now got a public education. When they were state controlled, they were much better. A person was basically taught what they needed.

I was fortunate. I went to school starting in the early 70's and graduated in 1983. I forget what year the Fed dept of education was started, but by the time I was out of school, it had not got it's fingers in too deep yet.

The results of broad sweeping policies is a dumbing down of the masses. "No student left behind = no student gets ahead".

Anyway...

as far as the OP's question...I cannot give a dollar amount...but it needs to be significant. Close down overseas bases in areas where there is no clear and present danger. We don't need them anymore. We can have a carrier group anywhere in a matter of days...long range bombers make up for the "immediate" needs.

We should be defending our borders...all those bases in foreign countries is just helping their economies. We pay them to have the base there, we buy local things, our soldiers spend their money in the local towns...how about bringing that money back home?

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Your biases are showing quite glaringly.

I truly hope so!

Name me one thing the Romans did that was at all socialistic.

In that time, Socialism was called dictatorship, dictatorship under the Caesars. More and more of the means of production ended up under the control of the Caesars. Individual freedoms were waning away. Along with that was the individual initiative to produce. Socialism tends to destroy that in the person.

Romes strength declined when it's armies did, after the advent of Christianity many soldiers renounced violence, which led to the Roman empire hiring more and more mercenaries to do their fighting. Christianity's focus on otherworldly things also led to a decline in the Roman's sense of civic duty - the less people were interested in serving Rome the weaker it became. And even if Rome had it's legions at strength during the Gothic invasion there is no guarantee that it would have stood. Roman legions were not indestructible, and neither is the American military.

It wasn’t Christianity making soldiers renounce violence and leaving the ranks. It was that Christianity had revealed that the people had become slaves and that caused the loss in the sense of civic duty. And that lead to calling up conscripts and hiring mercenaries to defend the realm. And when the Barbarian came knocking, people were either Ignorant or Apathetic to the dangers (sound familiar?). At this point, our saving grace has been the all volunteer, professional standing army. There are still enough with that sense of civic duty. The future class war will not be between the haves and have-nots, but the warriors and the low information voters. Something tells me that the differences between those two sets will not be all that great. But as Socialism (today’s dictatorship) slowly spreads its tentacles in our society, we too will succumb to the same curse that Rome did. And as the attack on Christianity continues, more and more people will not realize that they are losing their freedoms to the Socialist State.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One of tge ceasers had a food program going for the poor.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 2

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.