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Drayno

Putin to America

107 posts in this topic

I was tempted to put this in 'Other World News'.

Considering it is directed towards America, specifically American foreign policy, I think it belongs here.

Here is a letter written by Vladimir Putin addressed to America.

http://www.nytimes.c...syria.html?_r=0

Edited by Hatake Kakashi
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Never thought I'd live to be lectured by a KGB boss.

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Never thought that I would agree with him.

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Hmm... well he makes a lot of sense. :/

Edited by Ever After
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I think it just a little freaky how it seems the roles have reversed in the last 20yrs. this sounds like something an American president should be saying to the Russian president. What the hell happened?

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Never thought I'd live to be lectured by a KGB boss.

Arguably a KGB boss (even if he may be Evil) who has rather more knowledge of the often murky world of practical politics than a President who has no experience whatsoever at this kind of level.

And I don't just mean O'Bam, but every holder of the post for a good while; since perhaps Bush Sr, a former CIA boss..)

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Yep! Can't deny it, we (the U.S.) can be pretty arrogant at times about our position in the world. If the shoe fits......

Next accusation, Mr. Putin.

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An exclusive show of civility, level judgement and humility.

I can't fault one single iota in this letter. I bet the warmongers are frothing....

Not least on this forum...

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Yep! Can't deny it, we (the U.S.) can be pretty arrogant at times about our position in the world. If the shoe fits......

Next accusation, Mr. Putin.

Well, there is this. Today UK foreign secretary Haig has sqeeked in parliament about Syria not even admitting to having chemical weapons until recently, and uses this lack of previous disclosure as a weapon to beat Assad. I'm fairly certain that nukes are far worse then chemical weapons, so why is Israel not censured as Syria is for non disclosure of WMD. When has even a single member of the atomic weapons inspectorate ever been allowed to visit their facilities to see if they tell the truth about not having nukes? So, when the USA gives WMD to a country in an unstable part of the world, and that country does not admit to having them, the accusation is nuclear proliferation and hypocrisy on a massive scale.

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He makes good points, but ultimately it's posturing. Remember this is a leader who has carried out brutal repressions, fixed elections and ordered assassinations. Did he get UN approval to murder Chechens? He is walking the path of turning Russia into an Orthodox theocracy. In fact there is a sect in Russia which believes that he is the reincarnation of St. Peter.

The fact that such a man is the voice of reason at the moment should be terrifying to us in the West.

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Arguably a KGB boss (even if he may be Evil) who has rather more knowledge of the often murky world of practical politics than a President who has no experience whatsoever at this kind of level.

And I don't just mean O'Bam, but every holder of the post for a good while; since perhaps Bush Sr, a former CIA boss..)

Not only more knowledge, but more honor and dignity, however temporary it might be. He's no angel, but in this case he did the right thing, something the White House has not been able to do since Carter was there.

And in this case, more political skill. Of course Obama and Kerry set themselves up for this, doing the bidding of the MIC. They are prostitutes for the MIC. Putin knows that and took advantage of their crazy rantings and false claims.

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Well, we do tend to get a little full of ourselves...

"America! Land of the free, home of the brave! The land of opportunity....the greatest country on earth!"

Well....the sad fact is we are not number one in anything but military might and defense spending.

We are not the "happiest place" to live...we rank something like 17th

We do not have the best health care...we rank like 25th or something like that

We do not have the best education...I don't know the rank but it's not even in the top 10 if I recall

We are 5th in economic competitiveness following Switzerland, Finland, Germany and Singapore

And freedom? I think we rank somewhere between 15th and 20th...how is that for the "Land of the free"?

Thanks to the spying and the paranoia....all because people hate us...all because of ourselves.

Obama_soviet_america_zpsd53a61ec.jpg

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Putin wrote a very good letter, well written and diplomatic. I think he sees a chance to lessen American influence in the Middle East and to strengthen Russian influence. The card he is playing is that Russia is the great respector of international law, the diplomats who can solve a problem without force of arms while the U.S. seeks to bypass international law by threatening military force which, if carried out, he labels "an act of agression." I think he senses that President Obama has suffered politically over the Syrian issue, it being plain for all to see that neither the U.S. Congress nor the American people supported the President's desire to attack Syria. Overall, over the last week we have seen Russia outshine the U.S. over the Syrian issue. Putin comes off as the leader and our President comes off as someone without a coherent foreign policy as it relates to the Middle East.

President Obama needs new advisors.

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President Obama needs new advisors.

or perhaps a new job. :cry:

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Putin wrote a very good letter, well written and diplomatic. I think he sees a chance to lessen American influence in the Middle East and to strengthen Russian influence. The card he is playing is that Russia is the great respector of international law, the diplomats who can solve a problem without force of arms while the U.S. seeks to bypass international law by threatening military force which, if carried out, he labels "an act of agression." I think he senses that President Obama has suffered politically over the Syrian issue, it being plain for all to see that neither the U.S. Congress nor the American people supported the President's desire to attack Syria. Overall, over the last week we have seen Russia outshine the U.S. over the Syrian issue. Putin comes off as the leader and our President comes off as someone without a coherent foreign policy as it relates to the Middle East.

President Obama needs new advisors.

Agreed. Putin knows he punked Obama and is now relishing in rubbing his face in it.

From what I understand about Obama, he has great advisers. He just rarely meets with them and seems to never listen to them - because, you know, he's the smartest man on the planet.

As for Russia, well, just don't try and be gay there.

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Agreed. Putin knows he punked Obama and is now relishing in rubbing his face in it.

From what I understand about Obama, he has great advisers. He just rarely meets with them and seems to never listen to them - because, you know, he's the smartest man on the planet.

As for Russia, well, just don't try and be gay there.

America still holds the moral High Ground, then?

*looks at Miley Cyrus; thinks if only mr. O could do the same with her as Putin did with that Kitty* Riot crowd*

* or something like that

Edited by Colonel Rhuairidh
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America still holds the moral High Ground, then?

*looks at Miley Cyrus; thinks if only mr. O could do the same with her as Putin did with that Kitty* Riot crowd*

* or something like that

Personally I'd like to take morality out of it.

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He makes good points, but ultimately it's posturing. Remember this is a leader who has carried out brutal repressions, fixed elections and ordered assassinations. Did he get UN approval to murder Chechens? He is walking the path of turning Russia into an Orthodox theocracy. In fact there is a sect in Russia which believes that he is the reincarnation of St. Peter.

The fact that such a man is the voice of reason at the moment should be terrifying to us in the West.

Did Chechens get UN permission to murder Russians?, and quite a substantial number when Dzhokhar Dudayev rebelled against the legal government in Moscow. And I would like to see your proof that Putin ordered assasinations. There is no more proof that he has done this than there is to show that Vince Foster was murdered. And as for some priests thinking Putin is the re-incarnation of St Peter, then you should look at the videos of Putin's reaction when one of them tried to kiss his hand. You may hear in some of the media that Putin is turning Russia into an "Orthodox theocrasy" but reality says different.

Edited by Kaa-Tzik

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This letter makes Democrats want to vomit, apparently.

http://thehill.com/video/in-the-news/321859-criticism-of-putins-op-ed-builds-among-lawmakers

Hilarious how stubborn and far removed they are from reality.

The Republicans and Democrats should change their names to The War Party.

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He makes good points, but ultimately it's posturing. Remember this is a leader who has carried out brutal repressions, fixed elections and ordered assassinations. Did he get UN approval to murder Chechens?

Who are seen by him exactly as Al Qeada are* by America? Who plant bombs on railway lines, etc?

* sorry, were

... and as fixing elections, I'm not sure how far the U.S. can throw stones there ...

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Who are seen by him exactly as Al Qeada are* by America? Who plant bombs on railway lines, etc?

* sorry, were

... and as fixing elections, I'm not sure how far the U.S. can throw stones there ...

The question still stands, did he get UN approval before that action? It's not really a matter of the morality of it, just the hypocrisy. I googled it and Putin was PM at the time, so I suppose the point is moot because it would have been Yeltsin.

I'm an Australian, our elections are predictable, not fixed. Of course they don't need to fix them because Aussies seems quite easy to control.

Did Chechens get UN permission to murder Russians?, and quite a substantial number when Dzhokhar Dudayev rebelled against the legal government in Moscow.

No they did not. You'll have to forgive me but my understanding is limited on the situation. I was merely posing the question to highlight the potential hypocrisy on Putin's part. Now that I've discovered that Yeltsin was President at the time the point is moot, so I retract it. :)

And I would like to see your proof that Putin ordered assasinations.

I'd counter with the lack of proof is proof that he has. Do you think he'd allow something like that to be traced back to him? :P Of course if it's true there could be an assassin en route to my place the second I click post, so if this account stops posting soon I offer that as further proof.

And as for some priests thinking Putin is the re-incarnation of St Peter, then you should look at the videos of Putin's reaction when one of them tried to kiss his hand. You may hear in some of the media that Putin is turning Russia into an "Orthodox theocrasy" but reality says different.

So then, what is the rationale for laws against Religious Offence? Around the world homosexuals are gradually gaining the right to be married, yet in Russia homosexuality, and it's "promotion", has been criminalized. Do you think the members of P*ssy Riot would have been jailed if they performed their stunt anywhere but an Orthodox church? Perhaps I added too much rhetorical flair with the term theocracy, because I think Putin is a very rational leader, but where else do these laws come from except religion?

Putin is a man to be watched, listened to, but not trusted. I think everything he does is carefully planned and calculated for a specific effect and purpose. While I think what he wrote in the article is right, or at least needed saying, don't forget that it's a political play.

Edited by Almagest

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Isn't it a wonderful world we live in? (/sarcasm)

I'm not one of the Putin sycophants. (Though the memes of him tend to make me laugh alot.) I respect him as I would any world leader... always a bit of reservation. I was not offended by Putin's letter. I also know there are a lot of people that did take offense to it. They hate hearing the truth that American exceptionalism is simply a "hope" and not a reality. Sometimes getting whacked in the head is painful...but if it opens someone's eyes...oh well...

Our world is in madness. No one can tell the difference in propaganda and fact. Who is the bad guy and who is the good guy. Who is a rebel and who is a traitor. Get what I am saying? Twists and turns...always another facet, always another secret.

For every "fact" you can find, someone will produce contradictory "facts"...you are left choosing on gut instinct or faith.

I do not think Putin is a "good guy"...I don't think he is a bad guy either.

He is not better or worse than any politician here in the USA.

I'm a cynical, sarcastic assh**e...sorry, I can't help it.

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I'm a cynical, sarcastic assh**e...sorry, I can't help it.

But I agree with you like 99% of the time. What does that make me? :cry:

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But I agree with you like 99% of the time. What does that make me? :cry:

sane.

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