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Yamato

Those who believe in personal responsibility

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Are you personally responsible for what your government does? Why, or why not?

This isn't a trick question and I have no motive other than to see what kind of debate its answers may trigger.

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I believe you're responsible of your own actions and of those who you advocate or vote, when they get to the position you voted them for. If you put your trust on someone else, it's your responsibility to be sure that person is worth your trust. If it wasn't, we could all wash our hands off things and say "government did it" and just vote a new retard to the office. I believe this goes on until people take responsibility of who they vote or not vote.

How to take responsibility? Dont vote the same candidate, the same party, dont vote at all if all who you vote for turn out douches.

Edited by Mikko-kun
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I def believe in personal responsibility..

.As far as the actions of Gov, I can only take part of the responsibility. I am not their puppet master. I can call them, write them and email them, but the final truth is I cannot control how they choose to vote on legislation.

What we can do is use the power of petition to get people tossed out early by recall if they continuously take a position outside their constituent's desires.

We don't have a lot of tools available to influence the GOV. We need to learn to use them better.

That being said, there is only so much responsibility that you can lay at the feet of a voter when the Representative chooses to do whatever he wants.

Edited by Jeremiah65
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So based on the two answers so far, we are responsible to a degree because of the vote. Is someone who voted for Obama more personally responsible for what Obama does than someone who didn't? Does the adage "Don't blame me, I voted for someone else" apply? Should it?

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The quote " Evil thrives when good men stand idly by"' comes to mind.

I think we are all responsible for what our government does.

The population has more power and control over our system of government then we realize but people choose to either not pay any attention or be lazy and not put in any effort.

If everyone would pay as much attention to stuff as the people on UM then miracles could happen.

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So based on the two answers so far, we are responsible to a degree because of the vote. Is someone who voted for Obama more personally responsible for what Obama does than someone who didn't? Does the adage "Don't blame me, I voted for someone else" apply? Should it?

No one's free from responsibility in my eyes, because everything has consequences. Butif you vote for Obama you're more responsible than someone who doesn't, it's a no-brainer to me. If you dont learn to take responsibility of your actions, then how can you assume anyone else does nor coach them to do that?

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We all have a level of responsibility. Some a bit more than others. Those that put the man in office are def more responsible than those that voted for someone else (cough-cough "Gary Johnson" -cough-cough).

However...we are all responsible in complicity. We have ways and means available to us to stand up when we as a people overwhelmingly disagree with something. There is not many of them but most people don't even try to use them.

I have never been happier with our population than over the last few weeks...when people from all sides and walks of life stood up and said "no intervention is Syria"...

I don't think the GOV was expecting that. I think they expected some grumbles but close to 70% of the people was against it. When was the last time 70% of us agreed on anything?...well anything of meaning or substance that is...

We need to better learn how to use the few tools we have available to us...we need to organize groups that will teach others and use those tools. I make online petitions all the time but they never get very far. Every few months or so I'll make a petition to term limit Congress...I refuse to give up on that one.

Edited by Jeremiah65
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In any 'democratic' system, the responsibility for the conditions of that system lie with the majority.

If a majority believe, for example, that Obama would be wrong to bomb Syria, but do nothing about it, then they are as responsible as Obama would be if Obama does bomb Syria.

However, democracy only works if the people are engaged in it. I do not see that as being the case in the US or the UK and so those nations cannot be said to be operating as true democracies.

Democracy also does not end with a vote at an election. It is a continuous process of participation.

Edited by Leonardo
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Are you personally responsible for what your government does? Why, or why not?

This isn't a trick question and I have no motive other than to see what kind of debate its answers may trigger.

Good heavens no! Even though my paltry tax dollars support the criminal actions of government, I am not personally responsible for how they spend my money.

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We all have a level of responsibility. Some a bit more than others. Those that put the man in office are def more responsible than those that voted for someone else (cough-cough "Gary Johnson" -cough-cough).

However...we are all responsible in complicity. We have ways and means available to us to stand up when we as a people overwhelmingly disagree with something. There is not many of them but most people don't even try to use them.

I have never been happier with our population than over the last few weeks...when people from all sides and walks of life stood up and said "no intervention is Syria"...

I don't think the GOV was expecting that. I think they expected some grumbles but close to 70% of the people was against it. When was the last time 70% of us agreed on anything?...well anything of meaning or substance that is...

We need to better learn how to use the few tools we have available to us...we need to organize groups that will teach others and use those tools. I make online petitions all the time but they never get very far. Every few months or so I'll make a petition to term limit Congress...I refuse to give up on that one.

Iv honestly never heard anyone against term limits. I think everyone supports it just the people aren't mobilized about it.

Plus im sure the politicians will drag their feet to get that one done.

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Iv honestly never heard anyone against term limits. I think everyone supports it just the people aren't mobilized about it.

Plus im sure the politicians will drag their feet to get that one done.

Exactly the problem.

I also know of no one against the idea...except politicians and their personal lobbyist friends.

This basically equates to asking the fox to build a fence around the hen house so that he cannot get in.

There has to be some way that the people can demand this with or without the Congress involvement. It's just obvious they are not going to limit their own power...so how do we limit it when they refuse to do so. I am not a Constitutional scholar, but there has to be some means for this scenario.

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The quote " Evil thrives when good men stand idly by"' comes to mind.

I think we are all responsible for what our government does.

The population has more power and control over our system of government then we realize but people choose to either not pay any attention or be lazy and not put in any effort.

If everyone would pay as much attention to stuff as the people on UM then miracles could happen.

I agree. But even people on UM get tired of the rants about government. Ignorance is bliss.

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Great answers here, wow thanks guys!

I think part of what stoked my curiosity with the OP questions was another question that came first: Why are people so absorbed with politics? Instead of just writing people off as unenlightened for not having a sense of self responsibility, perhaps having a sense of personal responsibility might come in different flavors. People who want the government to do it, they may just want to throw money at it, and perhaps keep their time free to themselves (provided they have a conscience and a sense of self responsibility). I don't really believe that people are bad at heart no matter what their politics might be. The "bleeding heart liberal" comes to mind as just one cliche that fits. I began to think that maybe statists have a sense of self responsibility too, but they would rather contribute their small share of it through taxes (in which case, taxation would be voluntary) yet at the same time, they don't have a greater modicum of control to iron out all the problems with the government many of us here on UM are very adept at identifying. Sure if one's primary news source is Fox News Channel or MSNBC I can understand a long term side effect of too much exposure to those outlets might be that in order to think of any of the issues of our day, they all must get strained through the political filter first. I ignore these channels like the plague, not because I'm enlightened but just because I know I'm susceptible.

Time IS money imo, and helping people myself rather than just paying government to do it makes me feel a lot better as a person. If every individual did a lot more, this world would be a wonderful place to be.

Okay I just read what I just wrote and it makes no sense so I need to edit it lol

Edited by Yamato
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No.... you always hear the phrase, if you dont vote you dont have a right to complain...... thats total BS

Those who voted for the D's and R's are exactly to blame. Each federal election is won by around 52%-48% by either the Ds or Rs.......... around 40% do not vote.... We have the right to complain to those who vote these morons into office.

Edited by acidhead
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No.... you always hear the phrase, if you dont vote you dont have a right to complain...... thats total BS

Those who voted for the D's and R's are exactly to blame. Each federal election is won by around 52%-48% by either the Ds or Rs.......... around 40% do not vote.... We have the right to complain to those who vote these morons into office.

I agree completely that phrase is total BS...if we're not interested in any of the choices we're given, or even what our choices are promising to deliver, it's ridiculous that we have to vote for one of them first in order to complain about them later. That "don't have a right to complain" mentality looks like a subconscious crack in peoples' reasoning that I think might also predict their tendency to believe in one major party or the other.

But if we take it all the way to just sitting it out and not voting at all, and if it's because our choice has no chance of winning, it makes me feel like we bought the "You can't win" soap.

I can't win, when my candidate is being discriminated against in the bureaucracy, the media, even the debates. I had to take my Ron Paul cap off at my place of voting, according to the rules. Like a cap is going to change some last-second voters' mind who was indecisive and vulnerable? A guy behind me had a Mitt Romney t-shirt and nobody said anything to him. I walked back around to the entrance and stood in the doorway for a minute after I voted just to see if they would say anything to him on his way out. Nope. Maybe a cap is just easier to take off...yeah that's it. I can't say it was discrimination...it might have been an example of discrimination they could get away with. Anyway I took my hat off but I had a Kelly Pavlik shirt on, so I joked that actually I was there to vote for Kelly Pavlik. "Is my shirt gonna be okay?" "Yeah", they were fine with that.

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No.... you always hear the phrase, if you dont vote you dont have a right to complain...... thats total BS

Those who voted for the D's and R's are exactly to blame. Each federal election is won by around 52%-48% by either the Ds or Rs.......... around 40% do not vote.... We have the right to complain to those who vote these morons into office.

I really agree with this, but dont know about the right to complain. If you think of it in terms of laws that are, then it's a no-brainer, but in terms of is it right and fruitful and all that, I dont know. Raising the awareness is good, as well as plain talking and exchanging views, but there's always people who believe you should vote for one of the two most likely candidates to win, and just choose the less moronic one. Being the winner seems to be more important than upholding what you believe in. Not everyone who vote the morons probably think like this, but I know some do.

Personally, I dont vote because I dont agree with large-scale democracy so much. It's too large scale for me if it's over 10 000 to 100 000 people. If towns had more independent laws from the state, you could take your pick from what suits you instead of having to abide to rules which try to please millions of people. The one size for all just doesn't work, because people have different ideas about what's the best course to take in anything.

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