Join the Unexplained Mysteries community today! It's free and setting up an account only takes a moment.
- Sign In or Create Account -
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
GoodVibraShawn

America Unearthed copper in Great Lakes

22 posts in this topic

I'm just watching America Unearthed on the copper that was mined from the Great Lakes. They estimate it took 10,000 people 1,000 years yet America was not supposed to have been discovered that early. I think this would make a better topic for Ancient Aliens TV show because that might make a better theory if that much copper was extracted.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

while i don't know much about the show, i do know that native americans were mining copper in michigan for quite a long time time, though it was mostly from exposed veins. and this was for at least several thousand years, during which time they may have mined quite a lot. heck, i've seen some of the mining pits they dug up on isle royale! they look like shallow pits, but you can still tell that they were man-made. is the show trying to imply that there was something more going on?

(i'm in the copper country right now! so that's a thing)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm just watching America Unearthed on the copper that was mined from the Great Lakes. They estimate it took 10,000 people 1,000 years yet America was not supposed to have been discovered that early. I think this would make a better topic for Ancient Aliens TV show because that might make a better theory if that much copper was extracted.

So I'm curious: do you think there just weren't Native Americans here 1,000 years ago? Or 1,500? What, did they show up by boat on October 11, 1492 and were just really good at faking long term cultures?

--Jaylemurph

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't believe anything you hear on this show. I watched a couple of episodes and was intrigued but after basic research I found out that everything was totally fake. There was a skeptical website that breaks down everything.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you use the search function, you'll find info here that explains the whole thing.

Harte

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've watched the show. It is all fake. The copper show is a good example to explain the format of the show.

The show beings with an outrageous claim that is taken at face value. In the case of the copper show the claim is that a huge amount of copper was extracted and sent over to Europe and the Middle East to support the copper age. No effort is made at all to substantiate the huge amount of copper claimed.

Once the the most ridiculous claim is taken at face value, then some paltry effort is made to "investigate" some other unimportant issues. The dumbest idea is that show is that the wolf population is dying off because they are falling into holes left by ancient miners. The show seems to admit that any holes of any size are modern.

If people want to see something real about the native copper deposits they might be interested in the artifacts uncovered at Mounds National Monument in Ohio. The bird is made of native copper.

http://www.nps.gov/hocu/

Some gorgets are shown here

http://www.ao.uiuc.edu/courses/aiiopcmpss/essays/hopewell/hopewell7.htm

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It was the Vikings , they discovered numerous ancient European artifacts and European wood that normally is not growing here. Apparently they seem to be traced back to nearly 2000 years ago on this land. We should not be surprised whatsoever that Vikings have been traveling all across the mapamond back then. Their presence have been seen all over the place including Africa and as far as Australia which is crazy just to think about but obviously archeological proofs are not deniable.

Edited by qxcontinuum

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It was the Vikings , they discovered numerous ancient European artifacts and European wood that normally is not growing here. Apparently they seem to be traced back to nearly 2000 years ago on this land. We should not be surprised whatsoever that Vikings have been traveling all across the mapamond back then. Their presence have been seen all over the place including Africa and as far as Australia which is crazy just to think about but obviously archeological proofs are not deniable.

Only 1 settlement has ever been discovered in North America outside of Greenland and that is at L'anse aux Meadows. I've been there. It is a fascinating look into a settlement that was not the Vinland of the Norse stories. No one knows where the Vikings went in North America. There really isn't anything to be found outside of Greenland and L'Anse aux Meadow.

There are many hoaxes which have been done claiming to be ancient Viking artifacts. One of these is shown in the America Unearthed show.

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Once the the most ridiculous claim is taken at face value, then some paltry effort is made to "investigate" some other unimportant issues. The dumbest idea is that show is that the wolf population is dying off because they are falling into holes left by ancient miners. The show seems to admit that any holes of any size are modern.

wait, what? wolves... wolves are capable of avoiding holes. they're pretty bright animals. how would that even make sense to someone?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

wait, what? wolves... wolves are capable of avoiding holes. they're pretty bright animals. how would that even make sense to someone?

Oh, it does: To the assiduous audience of America Unearthed.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I watch the show and laugh and I keep thinking that the producer is wondering how stupid a comment they can make and get away with it. I can see them pushing the limits a little and then in disbelief they notice that the comment did not cause anyone in their test audience to blink. So they try something a little crazier. Still no reaction. Pretty soon they realize that outlandish comments need to be there because it wakes up the sleepy heads just in tie for the commercials.

Later on they are looking at a stone supposed to be covered in runes. The stone was fine in the ground for hundreds of years and then begins to fall apart. Clearly, the runes were placed on the stone close to its "discovery" otherwise they would have been unreadable. Not so according to the show.

These are the sorts of shows where you play a game in which friends get to sip their beer if they spot a blatant mistake in the show. This show could be lethal.

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

it's pretty sad that these shows always focus on conspiracy nonsense, because the actual history of native copper mining is fascinating stuff.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Clearly the "whole thing" is not explained. How much copper ore was mined? Estimates vary from a few tons to thousands if not hundreds of thousands of tons. Not much in the way of tools found, mostly stone hammers. Mining continued for hundreds of years, maybe more. Clearly this was not an isolated Amerindian tribe mining coppper for some sort of local decorative purpose. They had to be trading with other tribes. Where were they, what were the trade routes? Not very many copper artifacts have been found; understandable but shouldn't there be more? In Ontario Canada, near Peterborough, there is a stone outcropping with many many glyphs carved on it and they look a lot like those found at Old Norse sites. The outcropping is found along an ancient trail that leads from Lake Huron to Lake Ontario and much of that trail is by water. We'll probably never get all the facts and that's too bad because to mine copper in those quantities way back then, there had to be some significant trade going on. Too bad the Amerindians didn't have a good local source of tin (South America?). Maybe they would have been able to invade Europe instead of the other way around.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, if you're unwilling, let me aid you in reaching your existential moment.

Found by searching "Michigan Copper" under author name "Harte":

link1

link2

link3

link4

Leave off the "Harte" and I bet you get a lot more.

Harte

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This was a native copper deposit, native ores were mined at Isles Royale, Michigan's Upper Peninsula and at the Kennicott area in Alaska. All of these sites were sources for metal implements. I doubt much was taken out of these areas. The metals were taken by such to produce tools and decorative items.

There is a discussion at this link about the origin of some of the incredibly large copper values. They point out why these numbers are not supported by the evidence. They also dispense with the foreign miner claim by pointing out that not a single artifacts from across the Atlantic has been found. The copper artifacts and processing methods are described here.

http://copperculture.homestead.com/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Clearly the "whole thing" is not explained. How much copper ore was mined? Estimates vary from a few tons to thousands if not hundreds of thousands of tons. Not much in the way of tools found, mostly stone hammers. Mining continued for hundreds of years, maybe more. Clearly this was not an isolated Amerindian tribe mining coppper for some sort of local decorative purpose. They had to be trading with other tribes. Where were they, what were the trade routes? Not very many copper artifacts have been found; understandable but shouldn't there be more? In Ontario Canada, near Peterborough, there is a stone outcropping with many many glyphs carved on it and they look a lot like those found at Old Norse sites. The outcropping is found along an ancient trail that leads from Lake Huron to Lake Ontario and much of that trail is by water. We'll probably never get all the facts and that's too bad because to mine copper in those quantities way back then, there had to be some significant trade going on. Too bad the Amerindians didn't have a good local source of tin (South America?). Maybe they would have been able to invade Europe instead of the other way around.

...I believe if you actually took the time to look into this issue, you'll find out that copper was a resource present with virtually every Atlantic Seaboard Native tribe. I point you specifically to Thomas Harriot's Brief and True Report of the Newfound Land of Virginia, with illustated proof of this.

Your ignorance of the subject should not be the basis for outlandish theorization.

--Jaylemurph

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jaylemurph, I find your response (that all the Atlantic Seaboard tribes had copper) reminiscent of the "South Park" episode where the underpants gnomes are stealing the boys' underwear...Step One..Steal underpants..Last Step...Profit!

There are a lot of unanswered questions between "mine copper ore" and "use copper implements"

There would be plenty of unanswered questions even if only mined on the mainland but the mining on Isle Royale just adds to them. Did they mine and transport (by canoe or raft) in the summer only? Winter mining would be brutal and pulling sleds across ten plus miles of ice is no picnic either. Did they process the ore on the island? If so, there should be spoil there? Did they use a heat treatment? If so there should be carbon-dateable charcoal. Has anyone checked the perimeter of the island to discover any lost cargoes? That might indicate a route and direction they were headed. What was the lake level at the time of mining? etc. etc.

MY speculation about the Norse is just that but at least I admit its just speculation. To act as if the limited evidence proves conclusively ANY theory is just hubris.

How many Norse glyphs on the Peterborough petroglyph site would be needed to take my theory seriously? So far, there's Loki, the trickster, Thor's Hammer and, of course the long boats. The Canadian government built a building over the site to protect it from further environmental damage but they prohibit photographs and I'm sure they screen any potential investigators so as not to upset the Native populations. All I can hope for is some lucky Canadian finding a sh*tload of copper ore somewheres along the trail. In the meantime I hope there's somebody on Isle Royale digging for answers.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

you know, until this topic, i didn't even know that there were people insisting that native americans didn't mine the copper, that of course it had to be done by europeans. it's sad, but i guess i shouldn't be surprised.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

lakeview rud, the mining was of native copper. There was no smelting of ore.

Did you read the link I posted? It addresses many of the questions you ask. Copper has been found, but not a lot. Copper has been found at workshop areas which was not necessarily the mining area. Annealing has to be used with copper because the hammering makes it brittle. There is no evidence of any objects or burials from peoples from the other side of the Atlantic.

Check out the link.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jaylemurph, I find your response (that all the Atlantic Seaboard tribes had copper) reminiscent of the "South Park" episode where the underpants gnomes are stealing the boys' underwear...Step One..Steal underpants..Last Step...Profit!

There are a lot of unanswered questions between "mine copper ore" and "use copper implements"

As I pointed out earlier, your own personal level of ignorance in no way translates that ingorance to a universal standard. I encourage you to go to a library, find a book and do some research. The fact you are too busy or too lazy to do these things does not mean these things are not known to other people.

To be fair, I don't personally know the answers to any of these questions, either, but please notice how I'm not using that fact to describe it an incredible mystery.

--Jaylemurph

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This was a native copper deposit, native ores were mined at Isles Royale, Michigan's Upper Peninsula and at the Kennicott area in Alaska. All of these sites were sources for metal implements. I doubt much was taken out of these areas. The metals were taken by such to produce tools and decorative items.

There is a discussion at this link about the origin of some of the incredibly large copper values. They point out why these numbers are not supported by the evidence. They also dispense with the foreign miner claim by pointing out that not a single artifacts from across the Atlantic has been found. The copper artifacts and processing methods are described here.

http://copperculture.homestead.com/

A source listed at your linked site:

Martin, Susan R., Wonderful Power: The Story of Ancient Copper Working in the Lake Superior Basin, Wayne State University Press, 1999.

I linked to her paper about this ridiculous claim in one (or more) of the four posts I linked.

Harte

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This new learning amazes me, Sir Bedivere. Explain again how sheeps bladders may be employed to prevent earthquakes! -King Arthur

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.