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davros of skaro

Comet/icesheet impact influence flood myths?

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The oral,and written traditions of a global flood from cultures the world over may have been from a Comet in prehistory?This makes sense for tales of civilizations lost to the sea.

Nanodiamonds evidence of impacts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detonation_nanodiamond

Possible evidence of civilizations lost to the sea?

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The problem with the flood myths is that they are all different. Some floods do not involve water. In some floods few die. In others many die. In some everyone dies. It is a collection of all sorts of different things that I do no think should be lumped together.

When you think about how many different types of catastrophes are there going to be? Could have wind, fire, and water. Not sure about earth as a catastrophic means especially for peoples living away from mountains. But wind, fire, and water can be disaster in a person's lifetime.

River valleys have attracted lots of people. There are lots of places where there are many floods - even flooding each year. I think the reason for all of the flood stories is because it is not a rare situation such as a comet impact. I think if there are lots of floods, then there are lots of flood stories. I'd be more impressed with a great fire story in the Sahara where fuel is limited. Even deserts are prone to flash flooding within a human lifetime.

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I don't think we need to think there has to be a historic kernel behind every myth. Floods are so common that it is just a natural that storytellers would invent one.

It's kinda like Troy. I have serious question the place ever existed, and the fact of settlements in the area is not convincing. Still, there are people who just will not accept that possibility. They seem to imagine that a few hundred years is not enough for such invention, even though studies have shown that in fact less than a generation is needed within oral story-telling cultures.

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Good points gentlemen.

I wonder if there are any tribal legends connected to the Tunguska event in Russia?

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I don't think we need to think there has to be a historic kernel behind every myth. Floods are so common that it is just a natural that storytellers would invent one.

It's kinda like Troy. I have serious question the place ever existed, and the fact of settlements in the area is not convincing. Still, there are people who just will not accept that possibility. They seem to imagine that a few hundred years is not enough for such invention, even though studies have shown that in fact less than a generation is needed within oral story-telling cultures.

I don't think the Flood Stories are Myths. And I do believe there was a place called Atlantis. For instance, in the Bible, of course you have the Flood and Noah...but the creation story has all dry land together in one place and the fountains of the deep, as it were, were broken up and a tremendous amount of rain occurred...40 days and 40 nights right?

And there are numerous Flood Stories similar that are not in the Bible.

So, it is quite obvious when looking at a Globe, especially with the knowledge that we have of how the Contintents are in fact drifting, that, at one time there was indeed one land mass...and something happened...something that we don't yet understand...something happened, Comet?, Massive Earthquakes?...something happened to cause that huge landmass to break up.

Also consider that you had a civilization known for building pyramids...Egypt right? And all the way down in South America another civilization known for building pyramids...the Aztecs, Incas, Mayas right? So, how is it that these civilizations so far away from each other had the same interest in building pyramids? The reason is simple...once upon a time, everyone was involved in building Pyramids...in Atlantis...and then something happened...but some of the people retained alot of knowledge of those days and passed it on.

Consider another passage in Genesis....And it hadn't rained in those days, (paraphrasing) and so God cause a mist to come out of the ground to water the garden in Eden. Really? Dude...what that means is that there were automatic lawn sprinklers back then. The Garden of Eden was irrigated...by the Atlantians. Just making it up as I go along...but there is a lot of truth in the 'myths' regarding floods...once upon a time there was a tremendous occurance that literally broke up the land.

Just thought of this but why the concrete belief that the world was flat? Maybe that too originates with Atlantis and the remembering of nothing but land in one place and nothing else but water. Of course they had ships back then and no one ever...ever...sailed into another continent the way Columbus or Magellan did.

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Good points gentlemen.

I wonder if there are any tribal legends connected to the Tunguska event in Russia?

Were there tribes in Siberia...and wasn't that like...1908?

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I don't think the Flood Stories are Myths. And I do believe there was a place called Atlantis. For instance, in the Bible, of course you have the Flood and Noah...but the creation story has all dry land together in one place and the fountains of the deep, as it ...

...

Just thought of this but why the concrete belief that the world was flat? Maybe that too originates with Atlantis and the remembering of nothing but land in one place and nothing else but water. Of course they had ships back then and no one ever...ever...sailed into another continent the way Columbus or Magellan did.

According to the bible there is rain for 40 days and nights, but the flood event lasts another 300 or so days. Other flood myths are different. The flood stories are myths. Even if there were some grain of truth to them they have been so highly embellished that they no longer related to reality. One flood story often mentioned by creationists is a flood of tree sap.

A single land mass was Pangaea and Rhodinia before that. Continents break up just as the rift valley in Africa is opening up due to the convection of the mantle. We certainly do know what broke up these supercontinents. It was plate tectonics. The breakup of Pangaea was an the end of the Triassic the time of the first dinosaurs - and the first mammals. It's almost 200My before the first humans appear.

You should take a look at the pyramids of the Americas and see that they are not true pyramids. There is no connection between the pyramids of Egypt and the pyramids of the Americas. Different people in different places built structures. They taper towards the top. Collectively called pyramids, but they are different and also built at different times.

Why did people once consider the world flat? Why not? It is still used today. Do you think surveyors laying out a building consider the world to be anything other than flat? The reason people realized that the world was not flat was travel. Once you travel a bit you notice that the stars are not where they were. Get home and the stars are back to their proper place.

PS You might want to rethink the Columbus Magellan comment in light of the Vikings.

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i think it's useful to picture the world from the perspective of the people who often originated these myths. they were farmers, living in river valleys and flood plains. farmers didn't move around a lot, and the area they lived in was their world, more or less, even though they were certainly aware of the world beyond. for people living in those circumstances, a large flood was a world shattering event. it destroyed the world as it mattered to them.

you don't need actual world-wide floods to explain flood myths.

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Were there tribes in Siberia...and wasn't that like...1908?

Were there tribes in Siberia...and wasn't that like...1908?

Were there tribes in Siberia...and wasn't that like...1908?

Siberia is a very remote place and its very easy for a group of people to never be aware of this "civilization" thing. In fact there are a decent number of villages strewn throughout that we would probably considet "tribal".

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The problem with the flood myths is that they are all different. Some floods do not involve water. In some floods few die. In others many die. In some everyone dies. It is a collection of all sorts of different things that I do no think should be lumped together.

It's also worth noting that virtually every major city, currently and historically, is on some significant body of water, for a number of practical reasons. Concern with a flood is not and was not a metaphor or a myth for such places, nor should an abiding concern for flooding be too mysterious (to people of rational thinking, which does exclude a number of posters here, to be fair.)

--Jaylemurph

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qoute-The oral,and written traditions of a global flood from cultures the world over may have been from a Comet in prehistory?This makes sense for tales of civilizations lost to the sea.

A comet that affected the whole world could `t have happen, there would be not that much life that would have survived on earth just due to the gases, Nanodiamonds also come from volcanos.

Comet Theory Comes Crashing to Earth.

http://www.psmag.com...to-earth-31180/

No Evidence for Clovis Comet Catastrophe, Archaeologists Say.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/09/100929171815.htm

Absence of evidence for a meteorite impact event 13,000 years ago

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2009-12/uoha-aoe120709.php

Comet impact theory disproved

http://www.bristol.ac.uk/news/2009/6123.html

Edited by docyabut2
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qoute-The oral,and written traditions of a global flood from cultures the world over may have been from a Comet in prehistory?This makes sense for tales of civilizations lost to the sea.

A comet that affected the whole world could `t have happen, there would be not that much life that would have survived on earth just due to the gases, Nanodiamonds also come from volcanos.

Comet Theory Comes Crashing to Earth.

http://www.psmag.com...to-earth-31180/

No Evidence for Clovis Comet Catastrophe, Archaeologists Say.

http://www.scienceda...00929171815.htm

Absence of evidence for a meteorite impact event 13,000 years ago

http://www.eurekaler...a-aoe120709.php

Comet impact theory disproved

http://www.bristol.a.../2009/6123.html

Thanks docyabut2 I did not know it has been refuted.

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A global flood is geologically impossible. Were it to have happened at any point in the history of mankind, well, most likely mankind would've been wiped out.

But it's true that flood myths are found in many ancient cultures the world over. To be certain some of these must be adaptations of earlier myths, such as how the biblical myth was adapted from the much-older Sumerian myth of Utnapishtim. As jaylemurph pointed out, historically most ancient settlements of any size, by necessity, were located along water routes—by large rivers or large lakes, or the sea. Fluctuations in water levels occur naturally, so who knows how many ancient cities were wiped out by floods? This sort of thing would enter the oral traditions of ancient peoples, to be passed on to other peoples.

Not all ancient civilizations have a flood myth, per se. Ancient Egypt did not. Now, their fear was that the waters of chaos (personified as Nun) would one day inevitably destroy the world, but their own mythic histories did not include a great flood in their past. Some societies have flood myths that seem odd to digest, given their locations within countries. The Lakota of the United States have their own flood myth, but mostly they have not lived as a people near large bodies of water since Europeans moved west into the country. However, linguistic studies have established that the Lakota and their kin (Dakota and Nakota) all originated as a single people deep in the past from the East Coast.

This and other examples have always made me wonder if many such flood myths originated deep in Paleolithic times at the ends of Ice Ages, when coastal waters and attached waterways would've risen dramatically.

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Egyptian Leyden Payrus ( Budge W. E. A., From Fetish to God in Ancient Egypt, p.198.):

”This Earth shall enter into the watery abyss of Nu by means of a raging flood, and will become even as it was in primeval time… the Nile will rise and cover all Egypt with water, and drown the whole country; then, as in the beginning, there will be nothing to be seen except water. “

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There's this :Meteorite storm 'smashed the Earth 12,000 years ago and killed off a prehistoric people'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2158054/Scientists-discover-evidence-meteorite-storm-hit-Earth-13-000-years-ago-killed-prehistoric-civilisation.html#ixzz2fWYoknLT

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2158054/Scientists-discover-evidence-meteorite-storm-hit-Earth-13-000-years-ago-killed-prehistoric-civilisation.html This was roughly the time the ancients buried The Gobleki Tepe >>> Did the ancients have some prior knowledge ???

Scientists Confirm Gobekli Tepe Was Buried On Purpose in Ancient Times>>>>Located in Southeastern Turkey is one of the most important archaeological discoveries ever made. Gobekli Tepe is the name of the site and it is the oldest place of worship ever found. The site dates back to more than 11,500 years ago and has turned the historical record upside down. Archaeologists never thought our hunter gatherer ancestors were capable of building such a complex monument during this time period and exactly how the building was put up and organized is a question that troubles the historical record. But this is not the only question that troubles archaeologists with the Gobekli Tepe site, there is also the problem of why the site was abandoned and then buried many thousands of years ago.
http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/2013/05/scientists-confirm-gobekli-tepe-was-buried-on-purpose-in-ancient-times-2654994.html Was it to protect the site from invaders... or this Meteorite storm... or the Ice age

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... http://www.sott.net/...ery-Close-Calls

.

"Until recently, the astronomical mainstream was highly critical of Clube and Napier's giant comet hypothesis. However, the crash of comet Shoemaker-Levy 9 on Jupiter in 1994 has led to a change in attitudes. The comet, watched by the world's observatories, was seen split into 20 pieces and slammed into different parts of the planet over a period of several days. A similar impact on Earth, it hardly needs saying, would have been devastating." The Carolina Bays date to this time. The Carolina bays are mysterious land features often filled with bay trees and other wetland vegetation.

Because of their oval shape and consistent orientation, they are considered by some authorities to be the result of a vast meteor shower that occurred approximately 12,000 years ago. What is most astonishing is the number of them. There are over 500,000 of these shallow basins dotting the coastal plain from Georgia to Delaware. That is a frightening figure.

And with those comets ... asteroids... we might also receive some space junk.. ;)

http://www.earthfiles.com/

“Unusual Biological Entities” from Outer Space.

“In the absence of a mechanism by which large particles like these

can be transported to the stratosphere, we can only conclude that the biological

entities originated from space. Our conclusion then is that life is continually

arriving to Earth from space, life is not restricted to this planet and it

almost certainly did not originate here.”

- Milton Wainwright, Ph.D., Molecular Biologist, U. K.'s Univ. of Sheffield

published... http://journalofcosm.../Contents7.html Edited by crystal sage

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Tiny balls of fungus and feces may disprove the theory that a huge space rock exploded over North America about 12,900 years ago,

http://news.national...ge-extinctions/

Mysterious Black Mats on Earth Not From Outer Space

http://news.yahoo.com/mysterious-black-mats-earth-not-outer-space-190401558.html

Edited by docyabut2
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Egyptian Leyden Payrus ( Budge W. E. A., From Fetish to God in Ancient Egypt, p.198.):

”This Earth shall enter into the watery abyss of Nu by means of a raging flood, and will become even as it was in primeval time… the Nile will rise and cover all Egypt with water, and drown the whole country; then, as in the beginning, there will be nothing to be seen except water. “

Yes, that's the flood the ancient Egyptians believed would one day happen—and not just destroy Egypt itself but the entire world. They felt it was inevitable, but the Egyptians did not propose a date or time when it might happen. It was a nebulous threat and quite logical per their religion: life began from the waters of chaos, and some day the waters of chaos would destroy life.

It remains that the Egyptians did not write of a cataclysmic flood event in their own past, such as with Utnapishtim or Noah or the Greeks. Flood myths often involved shared oral histories passed from one society to another, but the Egyptians appear to have missed that particular meeting.

Edited by kmt_sesh
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Yes, that's the flood the ancient Egyptians believed would one day happen—and not just destroy Egypt itself but the entire world. They felt it was inevitable, but the Egyptians did not propose a date or time when it might happen. It was a nebulous threat and quite logical per their religion: life began from the waters of chaos, and some day the waters of chaos would destroy life.

It remains that the Egyptians did not write of a cataclysmic flood event in their own past, such as with Utnapishtim or Noah or the Greeks. Flood myths often involved shared oral histories passed from one society to another, but the Egyptians appear to have missed that particular meeting.

It's from Egypt we have The legend of Atlantis as related to Plato.Atlantis is in a way a flood myth,but my thread is about catastrophe that led to flood mytho's.

http://ancienthistory.about.com/od/lostcontinent/qt/072507Atlantis.htm

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This and other examples have always made me wonder if many such flood myths originated deep in Paleolithic times at the ends of Ice Ages, when coastal waters and attached waterways would've risen dramatically.

Not as dramatically as fresh waters would rise when an ice dam breaks.

The Dakota Badlands looks like it does ("bad," you might say) because an immense amount of water rushed over it when an ice dam broke as the last Ice Age ended.

Harte

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It's from Egypt we have The legend of Atlantis as related to Plato.Atlantis is in a way a flood myth,but my thread is about catastrophe that led to flood mytho's.

http://ancienthistor...507Atlantis.htm

Actually it's not. All that exists is the claim by Plato in his dialogues with no actual supporting evidence from Egypt to back it up.

cormac

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Actually it's not. All that exists is the claim by Plato in his dialogues with no actual supporting evidence from Egypt to back it up.

cormac

Then Atlantis maybe a parable of sorts?

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Yes, that's the flood the ancient Egyptians believed would one day happen—and not just destroy Egypt itself but the entire world. They felt it was inevitable, but the Egyptians did not propose a date or time when it might happen. It was a nebulous threat and quite logical per their religion: life began from the waters of chaos, and some day the waters of chaos would destroy life.

It remains that the Egyptians did not write of a cataclysmic flood event in their own past, such as with Utnapishtim or Noah or the Greeks. Flood myths often involved shared oral histories passed from one society to another, but the Egyptians appear to have missed that particular meeting.

There are legends of the great floods with the Australian Aboriginals http://www.sacred-texts.com/aus/mla/mla09.htm and http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/flood-myths.html

So is this one wrong ??? I did read from someone here that Budge's translations were a little off...

Heidel, pp. 102-106] Egypt:

People have become rebellious. Atum said he will destroy all he made and return the earth to the Primordial Water which was its original state. Atum will remain, in the form of a serpent, with Osiris. [Faulkner, plate 30] (Unfortunately the version of the papyrus with the flood story is damaged and unclear. See also Budge, p. ccii.)

OMG !!! Have you read this?
Universal Flood

Considering the biblical narrative, which says that the Flood was universal, the words "all" and "every" are used 16 times in Genesis 6-9 to describe the totality of the Flood.

"Flood traditions" (the Gilgamesh Epic, the Atrahasis Epich, etc.), even though not as accurate as the Bible, all say the ark came to rest on a mountain. IMPOSSIBLE with a local flood

. The world before the Flood was quite different from the world today. Since it did not rain before the Flood (Genesis 2:5), yet rivers flowed (v.10), there must have been great subterranean reservoirs of water. At the appointed time, the "fountains of the great deep" (Genesis 7:11 ) spewed out their aquatic and volcanic contents while the "windows of heaven were opened" as some form of water was precipitated. Coupling these mechanisms with the fact that 70% of the earth is presently covered with water in sufficient quantity to cover the entire (flattened out) earth to a depth of about 7,500 feet, we can conclude that the biblical story is, indeed, quite reasonable. Present mountain ranges are mostly sedimentary rocks attributable to a flood, or volcanoes. They could have been formed during the Flood, or finished rising just after it.

Prehistoric man has been described as living in the "stone ages." However, stone age people are a relative phenomenon. In every generation, including ours, since the beginning of time, some groups have lived in a "stone age," while nearby, people lived with high civilizations. The point is that a culture cannot be dated based on their use of stone implements. Braidwood's opinion, typical of many prehistorians, is completely speculative, "Prehistory means the time before written history began. Actually, more than 99 percent of man's story is prehistory. Man is probably well over a million years old, but he did not begin to write history (or to write anything) until about 5,000 years ago"(1967: 1). If man could not, and did not write during prehistory, there is no way to be sure of his age (of one million years), sophisticated dating methods notwithstanding. This is so because radioactive dating methods cannot be calibrated with known dates before 5,000 years ago, thus cannot date stone age cultures (usually claimed to be older than 3000 BC).

Of course, the climate would be altered by catastrophes accompanying the Flood. Whereas rain had not fallen before the Flood, afterward it became a regular event. Rainbows can be seen in the falling water vapor, God's sign that He would never destroy the earth by water again. If only a local flood occurred, God's promise is broken every time a severe local flood occurs.

http://davelivingston.com/universalflood.htm

No rain on Earth before the great floods !!! Why there is evidence that it even rains on Mars!!!

http://weeklyworldnews.com/headlines/45792/life-on-mars/

The clouds are at least 150 miles away from the surface. Some suggest they are not clouds, but rather w debris which was disturbed after the Red Planet was hit by a meteor. But NASA reportedly confirms that they are clouds, rain-producing clouds.

http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/MPF/ops/clouds_sunset.html

http://www.npr.org/blogs/13.7/2011/08/13/139603846/an-image-of-liquid-water-on-mars

This will be interesting, especially as they are planning to colonize Mars soon...

The Mars flyby comes at a key time in Comet ISON’s journey. It will have just crossed the "frost line," a place just outside the orbit of Mars where solar heating is enough to start vaporizing frozen water
http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2013/23aug_marsison/
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Then Atlantis maybe a parable of sorts?

It was an allegorical tale of what happens when a specific nation or people, Plato's Atlantis, got too big for their britches. Or as the saying goes "the bigger they are, the harder they fall". Not that Athens for whom the tale was meant ever learned its lesson, it didn't. But then much the same thing has gone on with other places and peoples many, MANY times throughout history.

cormac

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There are legends of the great floods with the Australian Aboriginals http://www.sacred-te...s/mla/mla09.htm and http://www.talkorigi...lood-myths.html

So is this one wrong ??? I did read from someone here that Budge's translations were a little off...

OMG !!! Have you read this?

No rain on Earth before the great floods !!! Why there is evidence that it even rains on Mars!!!

http://mars.jpl.nasa...uds_sunset.html

http://www.npr.org/b...d-water-on-mars

This will be interesting, especially as they are planning to colonize Mars soon...

http://science.nasa....23aug_marsison/

If you're going to rely on E. A. Wallis Budge for accurate translations you might as well be using Zechariah Sitchin as a reference too. One's about as bad as the other IMO.

If you really believe that, I have a bridge to sell you....CHEAP. :tu:

And Weekly World News as a source? Is it an accident or do you purposely try to wreck your own credibility?

cormac

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