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Nations try to hide global warming slowdown

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Controversy surrounds many of the conclusions of the IPCC climate change report to be revealed on Friday.

The 2,000 page report is considered to be highly influential because it was will be used as a basis for UN negotiations on how global warming will be tackled. Co-authored by 257 scientists, the report is the first IPCC report in five years and is due to be released at the end of the week.

Read More: http://www.unexplain...arming-slowdown

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Wait... people still think global warming is real?

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If this was really about saving the planet the global warmers would be happy with this news. Instead, they attack it viciously and that should tell you that this is all about money and lots of it, especially at the absurdly corrupt UN. A massive transfer of wealth is what this is about. IPCC should be disbanded immediately, hell the UN should be disbanded immediately.

Edited by Merc14
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If this was really about saving the planet the global warmers would be happy with this news. Instead, they attack it viciously and that should tell you that this is all about money and lots of it, especially at the absurdly corrupt UN. A massive transfer of wealth is what this is about. IPCC should be disbanded immediately, hell the UN should be disbanded immediately.

I don't think that most people on UM are actually going to read the report and find out what it really says. Instead, they'll ignore the science and take speculation put out by somebody with little knowledge of climate and try to claim that it refutes the science. Merc: I mean you, among others.

Don't trust everything IPCC puts out, either. There are too many politicians with axes to grind involved with IPCC.

Doug

Edited by Doug1o29

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Global warming is probably the biggest scam since the invention of organised religion. It is a means of creating power for a self-chosen elite, and setting up a worldwide control structure.

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Point is, if they (the economic powers that be) reveal all the facts. They can't make any money.

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Global warming is probably the biggest scam since the invention of organised religion. It is a means of creating power for a self-chosen elite, and setting up a worldwide control structure.

You aren't a John Bircher, are you?

Doug

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There is always someone who will try to take advantage of other people and that is happening on a world-wide scale now, and humans are making a total mess of the oceans. That really needs to stop or everything may die.

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There is many people who are going to have to eat some crow if the speculation about GW stalling somewhat are true.

Once a person or movement become so set on a end result that they cannot reexamine if all their assumptions are correct then I feel they deserve any rough treatment that comes their way.

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There is many people who are going to have to eat some crow if the speculation about GW stalling somewhat are true.

Once a person or movement become so set on a end result that they cannot reexamine if all their assumptions are correct then I feel they deserve any rough treatment that comes their way.

The problem here is that the assumption that somebody is trying to hide something is completely puerile. The fact that in the last 15 years we had a virtual standstill is more or less acknowledged by everybody. But that would not be the first standstill since 1900, there have been a few of them. If temperatures go down to the level of 1950 then we have something to celebrate, before that we are just dancing around the golden calve (pun intended).

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One Word the meek shall inherit the earth not the ones who pollute it

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The problem here is that the assumption that somebody is trying to hide something is completely puerile. The fact that in the last 15 years we had a virtual standstill is more or less acknowledged by everybody. But that would not be the first standstill since 1900, there have been a few of them. If temperatures go down to the level of 1950 then we have something to celebrate, before that we are just dancing around the golden calve (pun intended).

Yet there are educated people, right here on these forums, who say that what you say is simply not true, that there is no slowdown. And those are the people who I don't feel sorry for when they get treated roughly by people who disagree.

Some of these people will say it is a statistical anomoly and that we should ignore it, but then if you say the 2005 hurricane season with 4 cat 5 hurricanes is a statistical anomoly they come unglued and start using the word ignorant and denier.

Edited by DieChecker
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From the article:

"A leaked copy of an earlier draft of the report, seen by The Telegraph, will insist that the likelihood that global warming exists and that its cause is man-made has risen from 90 per cent certainty to 95 per cent certainty."

And that from the draft of the draft - which tells me that if there is any argument (and we only have the AP and Daily telegraph reporting from an unknown source) it is probably from those Govts that want to REDUCE (in the Public eye) the true impact of AGW to carry on with the disastrous "Business as Usual" attitude.

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As explained in another thread, there was no stalling. Rather, oceans are absorbing the heat.

Given that, plus lack of cooperation between governments, there is no attempt to hide global warming slowdown. Rather, a global warming slowdown based only on surface temperatures is being used to hide the increase.

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One Word the meek shall inherit the earth not the ones who pollute it

True, but will we want what is left?

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From the article:

"A leaked copy of an earlier draft of the report, seen by The Telegraph, will insist that the likelihood that global warming exists and that its cause is man-made has risen from 90 per cent certainty to 95 per cent certainty."

And that from the draft of the draft - which tells me that if there is any argument (and we only have the AP and Daily telegraph reporting from an unknown source) it is probably from those Govts that want to REDUCE (in the Public eye) the true impact of AGW to carry on with the disastrous "Business as Usual" attitude.

So you think people started global warming that ended the ice age?

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So you think people started global warming that ended the ice age?

No that would be a natural cycle.

What natural cycle is causing the current warming ?

Br Cornelius

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There is many people who are going to have to eat some crow if the speculation about GW stalling somewhat are true.

Once a person or movement become so set on a end result that they cannot reexamine if all their assumptions are correct then I feel they deserve any rough treatment that comes their way.

But Diechecker, there is nothing unusual in the current "slowdown", there are a number in the last 150years. No climate scientist will be eating crow unless and until we see a significant long term cooling trend emerge. That is a very long way off since we are still accumulating heat in the planetary system at about the same rate.

I suspect that it is the politically motivated deniers who will be eating crow, but it will be a while coming yet. Plenty of milage left in the ostrich stance yet :w00t:

Br Cornelius

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If this was really about saving the planet the global warmers would be happy with this news. Instead, they attack it viciously and that should tell you that this is all about money and lots of it, especially at the absurdly corrupt UN. A massive transfer of wealth is what this is about. IPCC should be disbanded immediately, hell the UN should be disbanded immediately.

The news isn't true Merc. The comments received are about in line with what would be expected if all participating countries made a few comments since there are hundreds of countries, and the final meeting to thrash out the final document were scheduled from the very beginning.

Its a hot air story - nothing more.

Br Cornelius

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I thought I was quite commonly known that the "pause on global warming" was due to the relative cool pacific ocean we have seen the last decade and a decline in stratospheric water vapour?

I'm amazed that the IPCC hasn't picked up on that. Or maybe as so many times before they actually have and its just the telegraphs reporter who cant read and understand what the report actually says, and therefor thinks the pause is unexplained.

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As explained in another thread, there was no stalling. Rather, oceans are absorbing the heat.

the top level of the oceans are cooling, do you understand that in terms of temperature, the measurement difference of "heat" in the deep oceans is hundredth of a degree. firstly do you believe it is possible to measure the temperature of the entire deep ocean to that level of accuracy? can you categorically rule out underwater volcanism/black smokers as a source for the minuscule rise?

there are many other good arguments, such as that put forward by pielke that the rise in heat has not been detected in the surface, so how did just the deeper levels warm up (by an amount not distinguishable from noise)?

CO2 infra red re-radaiton is absorbed in the the first micron of water, it cannot pass hundreds of meters through water like UV to deliver its package of heat.

the quantity of energy in Watts/m2 of co reradiation that would produce this small rise is not enough to cause alarm, it suggests a low feedback for climate sensitivity, in other words the study you refer to suggests that catastrophic GW has been falsified, so why should I care?

Given that, plus lack of cooperation between governments, there is no attempt to hide global warming slowdown. Rather, a global warming slowdown based only on surface temperatures is being used to hide the increase.

why should anyone care about such a small increase in "temperature" in the deep oceans, even if it was possible to measure such a thing? how can you put such a thing into context given measurements have only been done for about seven years, nobody has shown its not natural oscillation.

all the models did not predict this, so yet another case of unfalsifiable "science" being put forward - its always going to warm somewhere and its always going to cool somewhere, all the time.

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I thought I was quite commonly known that the "pause on global warming" was due to the relative cool pacific ocean we have seen the last decade and a decline in stratospheric water vapour?

so you are saying the rise in temperature in the 1980s and 1990s was due to stratospheric water vapour increasing?

"water vapor has had its ups and downs lately, increasing in the 1980s and 1990s, and then dropping after 2000"

http://www.noaanews....watervapor.html

Edited by Little Fish

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so you are saying the rise in temperature in the 1980s and 1990s was due to stratospheric water vapour increasing?

"water vapor has had its ups and downs lately, increasing in the 1980s and 1990s, and then dropping after 2000"

http://www.noaanews....watervapor.html

Yes, I believe the stratospheric water vapour increase in the 80's and 90's accounted for about 30% of the temperature increase.

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the top level of the oceans are cooling, do you understand that in terms of temperature, the measurement difference of "heat" in the deep oceans is hundredth of a degree. firstly do you believe it is possible to measure the temperature of the entire deep ocean to that level of accuracy? can you categorically rule out underwater volcanism/black smokers as a source for the minuscule rise?

there are many other good arguments, such as that put forward by pielke that the rise in heat has not been detected in the surface, so how did just the deeper levels warm up (by an amount not distinguishable from noise)?

CO2 infra red re-radaiton is absorbed in the the first micron of water, it cannot pass hundreds of meters through water like UV to deliver its package of heat.

the quantity of energy in Watts/m2 of co reradiation that would produce this small rise is not enough to cause alarm, it suggests a low feedback for climate sensitivity, in other words the study you refer to suggests that catastrophic GW has been falsified, so why should I care?

IR radiation doesn't nedd to penetrate anything more than a few microns into the ocean surface since that is not the way in which heat is transfered to the deep oceans. it is transfered away from the surface by wave mixing down to depths of a few hundred meters. The main pathway to the deep oceans is through the ocean gyres and the deep ocean conveyor which subducts warm water from the surface to the very deepest levels of the ocean. The reason why it matters is because the oceans have many many times the heat storage capacity per unit volume compared to the atmosphere and the oceans represent a massive heat store compared to either the atmosphere or the land. It readily absorbs heat from the atmosphere, and the crucial thing is it gives it back up in great pulses and this is the very definition of the El_nino La-nina cycle. The world has been in a long series of La-Ninas which have taken more heat out of the atmosphere and stored it deep in the oceans - but no trend in La -Nina dominence has ever lasted for more than a few decades. When we flip back into an El-nino dominated period again the current global warming slow down will reverse into a steep short term temperature rise. We have been through a year of El-Nino La Nina neutral year and global temperature have correspondingly picked up again in response.

There is no evidence for an increase in geothermal output - and even if there were - it would be dwarfed by the dominent heat source of the planet which is the sun.

why should anyone care about such a small increase in "temperature" in the deep oceans, even if it was possible to measure such a thing? how can you put such a thing into context given measurements have only been done for about seven years, nobody has shown its not natural oscillation.

all the models did not predict this, so yet another case of unfalsifiable "science" being put forward - its always going to warm somewhere and its always going to cool somewhere, all the time.

We should care because what goes into the oceans will come out and the El-Nino La Nina cycle tells us that the effect is measurable in degrees of change of atmospheric temperature.

Br Cornelius

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