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Big Bad Voodoo

Society is ill-not individual

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For many of us, society has become increasingly alienating, isolating and insane, and earning a buck means more degrees, compliance, ass-kissing, ****-eating, and inauthenticity. So, we want to rebel. However, many of us feel hopeless about the possibility of either our own escape from societal oppression or that political activism can create societal change. So, many of us, especially young Americans, rebel by what is commonly called mental illness.

http://www.alternet.org/personal-health/how-our-society-breeds-anxiety-depression-and-dysfunction?paging=off

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Wait, did I get it right? Is it being implied that being rebellious is in fact, a form of psychosis? And I thought that was merely a personality trait in people.

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Wait, did I get it right? Is it being implied that being rebellious is in fact, a form of psychosis? And I thought that was merely a personality trait in people.

Heaven help the world if we all become obedient and meek and controllable. Still, rebelliousness and stubbornness are also bad. A middle course between the two applies, as it does in most virtue/vice situations.
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I dont like middle courses.

Isn't it always a case in society that you must act in a certain way or you'll be seen as deranged, lunatic or unfitting? The definition has just broadened I guess. Still, it's a matter of opinion. I think anyone who can't live a life of their own is being consumed by some form of lunacy.

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I see -- you choose to take the middle way with respect to taking the middle way.

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Heaven help the world if we all become obedient and meek and controllable. Still, rebelliousness and stubbornness are also bad. A middle course between the two applies, as it does in most virtue/vice situations.

Yeah, like that will happen any time soon, the whole world becoming obedient, meek, and controllable. I think there are times when some rebelliousness & stubbornness are needed, it's not the qualities that are deplorable, it's how & when & why they're deployed. And none of us are forced into conformity, it's a choice. We may not like the consequences of non-conformity, but we may like even less the consequences of conformity. Victims of society, oppressed, helpless to determine our fate or powerless to build a life of value and meaning? Only if we fail to exercise our own personal power and lack the courage to set our own course. Will everyone approve of the choices we make? Of course not. So what, who cares? Their opinions mean nothing in comparison to how we hold ourselves and whether at the end of the day we have lived according to our own code of conduct and continued to honor that which has value to us.

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Wait, did I get it right? Is it being implied that being rebellious is in fact, a form of psychosis? And I thought that was merely a personality trait in people.

Well geez, look at where that link he posted leads to... an alternate science website. Hardly the place to take seriously. I highly doubt any clinical professional would institutionalize a teeanger who wants to paint their finger nails black or dye their hair pink.

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Well geez, look at where that link he posted leads to... an alternate science website. Hardly the place to take seriously. I highly doubt any clinical professional would institutionalize a teeanger who wants to paint their finger nails black or dye their hair pink.

Did you read the article? It talked about depression and other painful states of mind. You'd have to be a retard to think dying your hair or having a different make-up is a sign of depression :no: it's a choise of style. It's no wonder if you'd feel depressed after knowing you've eaten tortured animal meat all your life so far and can't do jack to change it, or that you have only one kind of future after you've decided your career and can stop dreaming and just do the grind till you're retired or dead. That kinda things.

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I see doing things like dying your fingernails black as a sign of seeking to be noticed.

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From my childhood I considered being rebellious and stubborn an essential virtue, a behavior that sustained my feelings of self-worth and individuality. I watched others conform like mindless robots and couldn't understand why. I stood my ground and objected.

I mean, look around, conformity is what's got us in this mess.

I must say, I've conformed to the norms of society just enough to play the game and profit from the game, but not enough to become consumed by the game, to become the game itself.

In my view, society has become sterile and non-organic, a society based on phoney values that creates phoney citizens who are frustrated by their own induced phoniness. Why cooperate with a society that is indifferent and opposed to the qualities that make us human?

This is a cause of mental imbalance. I don't see many happy, frolicking, celebrating people in my daily adventures in my home town. All I see are a lot of depressed-looking survivors.

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I don't think conformity is the problem. Conformity would serve to create a boring world, and that is not what we have.

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We are society, since it is composed of individuals. And that is precisely why we can change it for the better. We all know what is wrong with it. What interests me are solutions, what actions we can take as individuals to bring about needed change. Or are we just sitting back and letting someone else do the work? Or helping maintain the status quo by wringing our hands and saying there is nothing we can do about it?

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Voodoo, you say "Society is ill, not the individuals"...but, don't individuals make society?

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We are society, since it is composed of individuals. And that is precisely why we can change it for the better. We all know what is wrong with it. What interests me are solutions, what actions we can take as individuals to bring about needed change. Or are we just sitting back and letting someone else do the work? Or helping maintain the status quo by wringing our hands and saying there is nothing we can do about it?

This would get a double-like from me if I could. Focusing more on solutions than problems can prevent depression and anxiety, because there's no need to feel hopeless if you can truly believe you can make a change.

But you should separate making a change to society from making a chance to your own life. One's dream is just another vision, idea or possibility for another. My dream is to have a farm and winter greenhouse well-running but can't expect everyone to share that dream. One size just doesn't fit for everyone. And what's the point in making the world an ideal place for you, instead of just focusing more on your life and just nudging the things you think are good in the world, forward?

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The real illness I see in society is "tolerance deficit disorder". So many will go into a rage of indignation if others don't see the world the way they do - I mean, really - how dare they be a democrat or republican or communist or atheist or religious, on and on and on it drones and more seems to get added into the "how dare they" bag each day, it's literally bursting at the seams.

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Im pretty sure being rebellious is part of growing up.

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Yeah libstak, but it can be hard to have tolerance if your worldview is that others should bend to your will & ways. Those ideas you listed, tend to include that, a lot of people tend to advocate that. I feel we've become overtolerating on that respect.

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Yeah libstak, but it can be hard to have tolerance if your worldview is that others should bend to your will & ways. Those ideas you listed, tend to include that, a lot of people tend to advocate that. I feel we've become overtolerating on that respect.

A major sympton of tolerance deficit disorder and anyone of any creed or faith can succumb to it - no doubts there, in fact I can't even see a successful treatment anytime soon.

I don't think it's overtolerating to allow people their personal voice as long as they abide by the laws of their country and that the laws do allow for equal rights and protection to all. Of course, it does all hinge on the wisdom of the lawmakers, some will make the cure worse than the disease and that is the real tragedy.

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This would get a double-like from me if I could. Focusing more on solutions than problems can prevent depression and anxiety, because there's no need to feel hopeless if you can truly believe you can make a change.

But you should separate making a change to society from making a chance to your own life. One's dream is just another vision, idea or possibility for another. My dream is to have a farm and winter greenhouse well-running but can't expect everyone to share that dream. One size just doesn't fit for everyone. And what's the point in making the world an ideal place for you, instead of just focusing more on your life and just nudging the things you think are good in the world, forward?

Maybe when you get your farm & winter greenhouse, though, you will be even happier and more fulfilled, which would benefit your family & neighbors & community. A happy, positive person is always an asset. And you would be setting a positive example by doing, by demonstrating that we have the power to bring about change. Since most of us are a part of society, everything we do or say has an impact on our communities, some things to a greater degree than others.

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Voodoo, you say "Society is ill, not the individuals"...but, don't individuals make society?

Yes they do. But there are individuals who are diabolical and who are in charge and decide in what direction and in what speed humanity will go.

On OP. Its all about revolutions.

..für immer punk...

[media=]

[/media] Edited by Big Bad Voodoo

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You should all read

"The undiscovered self"

Jung goes pretty deep into these concepts. I dont take anyone's word as gospel, but he was a very thoughtful man.

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I think they have figured out how to sell things to the rebel along with conservative. Perhaps even better to the rebel, they have brand loyalty to the people that get them. The rebels of yesteryear have created a world infinitely more easier to move product in. The hippie sort of got what they wanted and it looks a lot like Brave New World much to the marketers benefit.

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Here's what my 18-year old granddaughter just posed on FB: "I don't associate myself with people who blame their problems on the world." She & I are in total agreement on this. If you don't like your life or the society you live in, then work toward making some changes. I refuse to be dis-empowered by the nameless, faceless "they". I don't have total control, but I'm darn well going to exercise whatever power I do have to affect my environment. I refuse to go to hopelessness.

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Explaining why the world is making things difficult is not the same as allowing it to happen without a fight.

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From my childhood I considered being rebellious and stubborn an essential virtue, a behavior that sustained my feelings of self-worth and individuality. I watched others conform like mindless robots and couldn't understand why. I stood my ground and objected.

I mean, look around, conformity is what's got us in this mess.

I must say, I've conformed to the norms of society just enough to play the game and profit from the game, but not enough to become consumed by the game, to become the game itself.

In my view, society has become sterile and non-organic, a society based on phoney values that creates phoney citizens who are frustrated by their own induced phoniness. Why cooperate with a society that is indifferent and opposed to the qualities that make us human?

This is a cause of mental imbalance. I don't see many happy, frolicking, celebrating people in my daily adventures in my home town. All I see are a lot of depressed-looking survivors.

I agree these normals humans ... well most of them go around like ,mindless, emotionless , mindless drones.

You said it perfect depressed looking survivors!

That is what I see.

When they see me dancing, frolicking.. and singing in the street..

they say.. that happy Wizard.. must be insane!

But hey I get paid to drink beer and play... so

screw what society says.

They think OH I must be a good little slave. .not think..

or feel.. just go along with the program...

and do what the master tells me lol

they are like puppies

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