Bigfoots and tool usage.

[keninsc]

This has me thinking.

I have talked at length with a number of people here, they have shared their observations with me and as I have sort of rerun my past experiences in the woods while hiking, or hunting it occurred to me. Sort of an epiphany, really. I have seen many of the things pointed out to me by others and I never once associated them with the possibility of a Bigfoot.

Now I find myself wondering.

On three occasions some things have come up "missing". Loosing things in the wild isn't terribly odd sadly, I lost other things but I can chalk them up to my own neglect or accidents. The first was a small hand ax. I carried it with me when I hiked because they are great for making an impromptu shelter, splitting firewood and the flat back of the ax head make a great hammer. This wasn't a full size ax, but a small ax, larger than a regular hatchet. I recall I left it in a stump and turned in for the night. the next morning I got ready to build a small fire to make some coffee (I have to have coffee) and the darn thing was gone. Nowhere to be found. I made the thorough search for it but it was gone. Finally I just gave up and figured I'd simply lost it.

On another occasion I had a small boning and skinning knife combination that I used for dressing out deer. We were on a hunting trip and the day before we'd used it to dress out a small doe we'd taken. I'd left the set hanging on the tree where we'd done the butchering, not the knives weren't the only things missing. A couple of the guys enjoyed the organs of deer as well and we'd harvested the heart, live and kidneys for them and dropped all the other "guys" in a plastic bag and moved them away from the camp. We didn't want any bears or other predatory animals coming into the camp looking for a free meal. Now what was odd was the knives were gone and the rest of the entrails, but instead of being eaten and the plastic bag left with tooth makes and such in it. All was gone. Like something had simply taken the whole lot, no sign of consumption or anything left behind, and obviously no foot prints. I was ready to accuse my friends of thievery when we discovered the gut pile was gone as well.

The last odd disappearance came when I'd finished up a three day hike and was stowing my gear in my truck and I noticed suddenly a length of climbing rope was missing. I'd bundled it up securely and had it in turn secured to the outside of my pack. What was odd was the tie down points had been ripped off the pack. They weren't simply untied or undone and empty, they'd been torn off. No evidence of chewing or bite marks to be found. A human who would have stolen it would simply have undone it and taken it, and as it happened I didn't encounter and other humans on this trek, nor did I encounter any large animals......at least I didn't see any. Mind you, my pistol was still in it's holster as well as my binoculars, things a thieving human could have taken and gotten money for, just the rope.

Ideas? Thoughts.

[keninsc]

I would add that on many occasions other things have come up missing. I tripped once and took a tumble down a steep slope once and lost several things that I never found. Or, was simply neglectful in checking my gear as I should have......my Drill Instructor would have skinned me for not doing a proper job.

However, these were the ones that I recall as being odd.

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

Only tools I can think of in Sasquatchology are Moneymaker and Bobo.

[keninsc]

Only tools I can think of in Sasquatchology are Moneymaker and Bobo.

Yes, but if you'll notice Squatches don't seem to want them.

[rustygh]

This is simply the OP'r trying to push ideas passing right by Bigfoot doesn't exist. I reject that idea, there is no proof of Bigfoot. Your story is simply humans ripping you off, or you being neglectful.

[keninsc]

Ah, but you assume I'm a believer in the big hairy beast, I'm not.

However, I am beginning to look at some things in a bit of a different light now. You can call it what you'd like.

Oh, I should add that it isn't my intention to suggest Bigfoot is the only explanation for this, however how is it that an ax disappears from where you left it the night before and no one is anywhere else around you? Granted some other critter might have found my scent interesting or something but I was within ten feet of it.....and asleep.

Edited September 24, 2013 by keninsc

[Q-C]

Could Biff also track/stalk us, visit campsites, and peek around homes because we leave good stuff out/behind he can use? Kind of like a scavenger who follows a predator.

My problem with this (OP) is, I would think after so long by now this creature would come into more (verifiable) direct contact with us, just like wild animals who find out humans are sources of food.

Edited September 24, 2013 by QuiteContrary

[keninsc]

I'm still trying to get my own head around it to be honest and haven't had time to use reason and think it all through. The whole thing with Bigfoots should have been resolved by now if they were truly real, and yet I still can't let go of the experiences of two of my friends.

You can blame Stardrive and Rafterman for this current mental exploration. Now, let me say this isn't the last word or final explanation. Hell, I could just have lost my stuff, but now I'm wondering if I wasn't a supply store for them?

[Stardrive]

Yep, it was a mental train wreck for me to ken. Not sure myself what I came across last summer. But whom or whatever that did it, is a tool user. I wrestled with it myself because it's a technique that, as far as I know, hasn't been described or catalogued by science. I learned something new from an unknown source. And that's the part of it that has me perplexed.

[keninsc]

Yeah, and now it has me rethinking some things as well. Trouble is some of the things happened a number of years ago and now I'm second guessing how accurate my memory is and that has me wondering if it was correct and now this new thing.....and .....and.....I need some Tylenol, my head hurts now.

[Stardrive]

BC powders work faster LOL.

[Rafterman]

It's an interesting thought exercise.

You would think that an intelligent creature (some claim only a notch below us on the evolutionary scale) living in close proximity to humans for thousands of years would have picked up on tool usage and, frankly, would have started to make their own tools at some point. Why risk running down your prey and possibly fatally injuring yourself when you can throw a spear at it or gut it with a knife. Even with the size of strength that Bigfoot allegedly possesses, hands are not the best things for doing these kinds of things with.

Then consider shelter. Every woodland creature knows to get out of the weather when it turns bad. They build shelters, move into existing structures, or go into caves. You would think that a creature with similar intelligence to us would have noticed the "little hairless people" build these really cool things that they can go into to stay warm and dry. So, where's the Bigfoot equivalent of the Ewok Village?

So in the end you're left with a creature that just doesn't fit anywhere.

Edited September 24, 2013 by Rafterman

[Stardrive]

Good points as always Rafterman. Chimps and Gorilla are known tool users. So if such a creature did exist, it doesn't seem to far a stretch that they use tools as well. The tools they would use would probably be made from resources readily available within the environment. If that's the case, then there would be no need to carry tools around, and said tools would simply be discarded back into the environment from whence they came when done with them.

Shelters. The construction of temporary shelters is an easy task, IF you have the know-how to do it. Caves, and natural deadfall structures would also be a logical choice. And if those options are open to said creature, then there's no need to build a village where the "little hairless people" could find you.

They may not fit anywhere, but I'm convinced there are logical explanations that can explain it's behavior. All speculation of course.

[Q-C]

Posted Yesterday, 06:42 AM in another thread

I have always felt this would be true, although I can't back up why. I don't even know exactly what this alleged creature is. But my assumption would be that it would exhibit more than what has been allegedly witnessed and that we would have found something physical- whether dwellings or tools. But as some assume, we probably have, but it was passed off as from humans. I don't buy it though. And it is another reason that weakens bf's existence for me. Not just the lack of a body, but the lack of more than just stick nests or caves with leaves as their alleged dwellings. But, just another personal assumption of a so far mythical beast.

This alleged animal is full of contradictions and head shakers for me.

Edited September 24, 2013 by QuiteContrary

[Insanity]

If they exist, I would not exclude tool usage among Sasquatch. Tool usage is documented among several animals species, including apes, cetaceans and birds, and is not limited to humans. Apes and elephants have been documented manufacturing tools, even if is simply stripping a branch of stems and leaves to make a reaching tool. Chimpanzees have been documented sharpening sticks to hunt other animals. The more complex manufacturing of either stone or metal tools has not been documented among other animals to my knowledge, but depending on the level of cognition, recognizing the value of such a tool may exist.

[+DieChecker]

If we assume bigfoot is real, naturally they would be tool users and naturally they would take tools from humans that were better then the stone and wood that they had previously. I would imagine that BF would pick up such a tool, or steal it, like Ken suggests, and then drop it somewhere when they are done, miles away, never to be recovered.

I know personnally that I've found lots of tools and bits of junk out in the woods. But, it actually is not surprising considering that most of Oregon has been logged at one time or another.

As to making their own tools, I'd imagine that BF does make temporary tools. But since they have no access to fabrication sources, that they would only use the natural materials they can find in the outdoors. Which would be very inferior to even a makeshift tool taken from a campground or garage.

Tool hunting may be the reason that BFs wander into areas that are inhabited by humans. If a BF can't find an axe or knife in the woods, he might head down into the residential areas (specifically trailer parks for some reason) to find what he wants.

Maybe this is why at least one metal tent peg seems to disappear everytime we go camping?

Edited September 25, 2013 by DieChecker

[keninsc]

These are things that have come to mind after discussions with many of you here. I'm beginning to wonder if it's possible that I've been around these creatures in the past and had no idea that I was. Now I'm wondering if maybe my own arrogance of my woodsman skills didn't blind me to what they were doing, or were they simply playing by another set of rule that I couldn't......and still apparently, can't seem to get my head around.

I've seen stick in odd patterns laying on the floor of forests and blew them off as random tree fall, but to another Bigfoot they may have communicated some message. "There's a stupid human wandering around today, be careful." Or, "Wait till he's asleep and we'll get some of his stuff."

I just now find myself wondering if I simply didn't get it?

[EnderOTD]

This is simply the OP'r trying to push ideas passing right by Bigfoot doesn't exist. I reject that idea, there is no proof of Bigfoot. Your story is simply humans ripping you off, or you being neglectful.

I would have to disagree

[keninsc]

There are other possibilities, Bigfoot isn't the only answer.

He's expressing an opinion and he's welcome to do so. I can't simply discount neglect or a random act of stupidity just because it was me doing it.

[HeathenRoyalty]

If we assume bigfoot is real, naturally they would be tool users and naturally they would take tools from humans that were better then the stone and wood that they had previously. I would imagine that BF would pick up such a tool, or steal it, like Ken suggests, and then drop it somewhere when they are done, miles away, never to be recovered.

I know personnally that I've found lots of tools and bits of junk out in the woods. But, it actually is not surprising considering that most of Oregon has been logged at one time or another.

As to making their own tools, I'd imagine that BF does make temporary tools. But since they have no access to fabrication sources, that they would only use the natural materials they can find in the outdoors. Which would be very inferior to even a makeshift tool taken from a campground or garage.

Tool hunting may be the reason that BFs wander into areas that are inhabited by humans. If a BF can't find an axe or knife in the woods, he might head down into the residential areas (specifically trailer parks for some reason) to find what he wants.

Maybe this is why at least one metal tent peg seems to disappear everytime we go camping?

I never understood the missing tent peg either.

[keninsc]

Now there is another thing to consider. If a Bigfoot went to the trouble to steal an ax or a knife or anything else really, wouldn't it make sense that they would keep it? I mean why discard it? Seems they would covet it as a treasure.

Maybe they do or maybe they keep them in a cache, squirreled away. I don't recall any reports of Bigfoots carrying spears or with packs on their backs.

I suppose they might just give them the boot when they were done with, but that seems like an odd sort of thing to do.

Of course one wonders if they were tool users then why haven't they adopted the use of fire?

[Q-C]

Maybe that erotic "dream" of hot sultry breath on your neck while sleeping under the stars, wasn't.

You don't think a creature so intelligent and "like us" would be more curious about us as creatures, and try to interact with us. Rather than simply, only and repeatedly stealing trinkets or tools or candy bars?

I would, at least after a thousand years.

[Stardrive]

They may not have a need for fire to cook, and a fire would singe thier hair (or worse), if used for warmth. And it could be they have a natural fear of fire. Who knows.

[Stardrive]

I would, at least after a thousand years.

Our ancestors settled this land just a few hundred years ago. And look what happened to the natives since our arrival. Just sayin.....

[Phaeton80]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S03d1ipNDbA

http://www.youtube.com/user/MANASOOCAN?feature=watch

Any opinions on the legitimacy of this material?