Jerusalem

[Ben Masada]

Here's a thing to think about. http://www.simpletor...blog/jerusalem/

Simple to remember, as in, Judaism online.

" 1738 BCE The first Jew goes to Jerusalem

Abraham, the founding father of the Jewish people, was sent by God to Israel. After arriving in Israel,

Abraham went to Jerusalem where he received a blessing from king Melchizedek. "

As I understand from study long back, Jeruslaem was first founded by Jebus and his Jebusite followers.

Surely he was Canaanite, as all people's back in that region, basically were all of Canaanite extraction.

I use this as an analogy, perfect for this site:

Brits settle into America. the Brits in America have a revolution and call themselves Americans.

BUT... they are still of British ethnicity.

Same here, Canaanites came first to the region, Jebusites, Israelites and many others, later, but all were ethnically Canaanites.

(How'my doing, cormac? :--))

I believe Jebusites first settled Jerusalem. but it surely was not the Jews.

You are doing just fine as I agree with you. That was a time of migrations. People from everywhere in search of a place under the sun to settle down and make it a place of their own. When the Israelites arrived under the authority of Joshua, it became their turn to cave a place of their own too. Since the Canaanites were in the place ahead of us, we had to fight to be accepted. And we have been fighting to this very day because the enemies are too many and, perhaps still based on the illusion that their turn can come again, won't just let us breath freely. In a way it is good because they keep us rehearsing our ability to survive as the fittest.

[Ben Masada]

Sorry, so its not a historical document but I have in my mind as like its a historical event, maybe because of it was always to be launched in this way. If we dont accept it as a historical and generally accepted information, how you plan to base the jewish history of that region ?

I know as David has occupied Jarusalem. So if they were one of the societies who constitutes Canaanites, why they need to occupy the area and throw out others ? it looks like the black people to invade the Usa. Is this an accurate comparison ? By the way I have never heard from jews that they were the part of Canaanites.

We were not alone at that time to be welcomed with the sword in hand. Hence we had to fight in order to settle down. We grew, became a large people with famous kings at the head of our government and space was needed. Usually the locals would start the fight to defend themselves and some times they won though temporarily and many other times they lost. Today, we have demonstrated to be more powerful than our neighbors but... how long will that take? Iran is knocking at our door almost every day threatening us with destruction. If they succeed, we might have to return to the nations into the 4th exile, God forbid.

Edited April 14, 2014 by Ben Masada

[LN_Mineva]

We were not alone at that time to be welcomed with the sword in hand. Hence we had to fight in order to settle down. We grew, became a large people with famous kings at the head of our government and space was needed. Usually the locals would start the fight to defend themselves and some times they won though temporarily and many other times they lost. Today, we have demonstrated to be more powerful than our neighbors but... how long will that take? Iran is knocking at our door almost every day threatening us with destruction. If they succeed, we might have to return to the nations into the 4th exile, God forbid.

Then why the Jews of Israel claims that the area belongs to them ? Because of you had attacked the natives and captured the region ?

[Ben Masada]

Then why the Jews of Israel claims that the area belongs to them ? Because of you had attacked the natives and captured the region ?

Then after thousands of years in possession of the land, the Arabs came and conquered our place for a short while and now the

nations of the world expect us to vacate the place because the short while of an Arab takes precedence to thousands of years of

Jewish ownership. What does that sound to you?

[LN_Mineva]

Then after thousands of years in possession of the land, the Arabs came and conquered our place for a short while and now the

nations of the world expect us to vacate the place because the short while of an Arab takes precedence to thousands of years of

Jewish ownership. What does that sound to you?

But firstly you had attacked ? So they have right to take the land back, isnt it ? This is another discussion topic that there are some countries who supports you and some countries just the opposite.

I would like you to know first I support every nation to have a homeland, a country. But this cannot be by damaging others or by usurping the rights of others. I want to look at it from another angle; so a part of jews thinks that the land belongs to them and there are a part of jews that they completely disagree with the Jewish settlement in the land. What do you think about them, why they think so, they are also Jews but they accepts you(Israelis) as occupiers, why ?

Edited April 22, 2014 by LN_Mineva

[Ben Masada]

But firstly you had attacked ? So they have right to take the land back, isnt it ? This is another discussion topic that there are some countries who supports you and some countries just the opposite.

I would like you to know first I support every nation to have a homeland, a country. But this cannot be by damaging others or by usurping the rights of others. I want to look at it from another angle; so a part of jews thinks that the land belongs to them and there are a part of jews that they completely disagree with the Jewish settlement in the land. What do you think about them, why they think so, they are also Jews but they accepts you(Israelis) as occupiers, why ?

No Minerva, sorry to say, but you are showing ignorance of Israel modern History. As soon as the State of Israel was proclaimed,

several Arabic armies with weapons much more powerful than ours attacked sure of themselves that the Jews would be pushed into the sea but the Lord had devised some thing else. We fought back and bit them all. Mind you, that to many of the Jews there was not

even a rifle to fight with. They were urged to fight with their hands and stones and take possessions of the guns of the Arabs if

they wanted a rifle to fight them with. Every one else has the right to take our land from us, not only the Arabs but they have to

win that right in the battle field first.

Do you recall what the Americans did to usurp the land of the native Indians in order to build America? If you are talking from

America, you ought first to change the glass tiles of your ceiling before condemning us for having recovered our land back.

At least, we tried to accommodate them but the only thing they agree is with the Jews out of the Middle East. So, let them

fight for it.

There are indeed some Jews who agree to return the Land of Israel to the Arabs but because they are the "Meshugaim" aka the

mentally sick Jews from the Neturei Carta sect who think that the Messiah must come first to get them back home. As you can see,

there are also stupid people among the Jews.

Edited April 24, 2014 by Ben Masada

[buckskin scout]

No Minerva, sorry to say, but you are showing ignorance of Israel modern History. As soon as the State of Israel was proclaimed,

several Arabic armies with weapons much more powerful than ours attacked sure of themselves that the Jews would be pushed into the sea but the Lord had devised some thing else. We fought back and bit them all. Mind you, that to many of the Jews there was not

even a rifle to fight with. They were urged to fight with their hands and stones and take possessions of the guns of the Arabs if

they wanted a rifle to fight them with. Every one else has the right to take our land from us, not only the Arabs but they have to

win that right in the battle field first.

Do you recall what the Americans did to usurp the land of the native Indians in order to build America? If you are talking from

America, you ought first to change the glass tiles of your ceiling before condemning us for having recovered our land back.

At least, we tried to accommodate them but the only thing they agree is with the Jews out of the Middle East. So, let them

fight for it.

There are indeed some Jews who agree to return the Land of Israel to the Arabs but because they are the "Meshugaim" aka the

mentally sick Jews from the Neturei Carta sect who think that the Messiah must come first to get them back home. As you can see,

there are also stupid people among the Jews.

This is total BS story.

If you want to learn the truth read Elusive Victory by Col. Trevor Dupuy, The Birth of Israel: Myths and Realities by Simha Flapan, Taking Sides by Stephen J Green, Living By The Sword by Stephen J Green, and the books by Donald Neff. They depict these wars accurately and lucidly. It was the Arabs that were poorly armed with the smaller armies than Israel in 1948. Plus the Arabs had an arms embargo against them and Israel did not. Israel smuggled in arms from Czechloslovakia, the Arabs did not. The Arabs were scared of Israel in 1948 because they knew they were inferiorly trained and armed and fewer in number.

Just because there were millions of Arabs doesn't equate millions of Arabs had any military training or combat experience. Simha Flapan is a combat veteran and he uses Israeli archives, and Stephen J Green uses US State Department archives on these wars. Excellent books.

These myths were created as propaganda and lets not forget, where were the Arab US constituents during pro-Zionist's Harry S Truman presidency?????

This Masada dude is self-perpetrating myths.

[Ben Masada]

This is total BS story.

If you want to learn the truth read Elusive Victory by Col. Trevor Dupuy, The Birth of Israel: Myths and Realities by Simha Flapan, Taking Sides by Stephen J Green, Living By The Sword by Stephen J Green, and the books by Donald Neff. They depict these wars accurately and lucidly. It was the Arabs that were poorly armed with the smaller armies than Israel in 1948. Plus the Arabs had an arms embargo against them and Israel did not. Israel smuggled in arms from Czechloslovakia, the Arabs did not. The Arabs were scared of Israel in 1948 because they knew they were inferiorly trained and armed and fewer in number.

Just because there were millions of Arabs doesn't equate millions of Arabs had any military training or combat experience. Simha Flapan is a combat veteran and he uses Israeli archives, and Stephen J Green uses US State Department archives on these wars. Excellent books.

These myths were created as propaganda and lets not forget, where were the Arab US constituents during pro-Zionist's Harry S Truman presidency?????

This Masada dude is self-perpetrating myths.

I also read books here and they are not of the anti-Israeli kind. So, myth or no myth, the truth speaks for itself. We are alive

and kicking.

[buckskin scout]

I also read books here and they are not of the anti-Israeli kind. So, myth or no myth, the truth speaks for itself. We are alive

and kicking.

The truth is, God fulfilled all the Abrahamic promises already:

He already made the Hebrews as numerous as the dust, Genesis 13:16 = Numbers 23:10; 1 Kings 4:20

He already made the Hebrews as numerous as the stars, Genesis 15:5 = Deut. 1:10; 10:22

He already gave the Hebrews the promised land from the river of Egypt to the Euphrates (in Syria, not in Iraq as those knucklehead Christian Zionists believe), Genesis 15:18-21 = Joshua 21:43-45; 23:14-16; 2 Samuel 8:3; 1 Kings 4:21,24; 2 Chronicles 9:26; & Nehemiah 9:8

In fact, the New Testament concludes that Christians are the seed of Abraham, well lets do the math, there are nearly 3 billion Christians in the world today and there are nearly 14 million Jews in the world today.

Who represents the seed of Abraham?

3 Billion Christians or 14 million Jews?

[Ben Masada]

The truth is, God fulfilled all the Abrahamic promises already:

He already made the Hebrews as numerous as the dust, Genesis 13:16 = Numbers 23:10; 1 Kings 4:20

He already made the Hebrews as numerous as the stars, Genesis 15:5 = Deut. 1:10; 10:22

He already gave the Hebrews the promised land from the river of Egypt to the Euphrates (in Syria, not in Iraq as those knucklehead Christian Zionists believe), Genesis 15:18-21 = Joshua 21:43-45; 23:14-16; 2 Samuel 8:3; 1 Kings 4:21,24; 2 Chronicles 9:26; & Nehemiah 9:8

In fact, the New Testament concludes that Christians are the seed of Abraham, well lets do the math, there are nearly 3 billion Christians in the world today and there are nearly 14 million Jews in the world today.

Who represents the seed of Abraham?

3 Billion Christians or 14 million Jews?

The real seed of Abraham are those of his descendants whom God's Covenant was established with. Now read Genesis 17:20,21. "As for Ishmael, I will bless him abundantly but My Covenant I'll establish with Isaac and not with him." In other words, God's Covenant

is with the Jews and not with Muslims, with the Jews and not with Christians. BTW, Christians are the seed

of Paul and not of

Abraham. Christianity is a Hellenist religion right out of the Pauline Hellenistic mind. According to Jesus himself, Christian are

blessed but with the salvation that comes from the Jews. (John 4:22)

Edited April 30, 2014 by Ben Masada

[buckskin scout]

The real seed of Abraham are those of his descendants whom God's Covenant was established with. Now read Genesis 17:20,21. "As for Ishmael, I will bless him abundantly but My Covenant I'll establish with Isaac and not with him." In other words, God's Covenant

is with the Jews and not with Muslims, with the Jews and not with Christians. BTW, Christians are the seed

of Paul and not of

Abraham. Christianity is a Hellenist religion right out of the Pauline Hellenistic mind. According to Jesus himself, Christian are

blessed but with the salvation that comes from the Jews. (John 4:22)

But Abraham and Isaac never possessed the promised land in their lifetimes (Deut. 10:22), and God delivered the Mosiac Law unto the Hebrews before they ever possessed the promised land, it all points forward to Christ and the New Earth for full fulfillment and the inheritance promised to Christians.

Hebrews 11:8-16, 39-40

⁸ By faith Abraham, when called to go to a place he would later receive as his inheritance, obeyed and went, even though he did not know where he was going. ⁹ By faith he made his home in the promised land like a stranger in a foreign country; he lived in tents, as did Isaac and Jacob, who were heirs with him of the same promise. ¹⁰ For he was looking forward to the city with foundations, whose architect and builder is God. ¹¹ And by faith even Sarah, who was past childbearing age, was enabled to bear children because she considered him faithful who had made the promise. ¹² And so from this one man, and he as good as dead, came descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and as countless as the sand on the seashore.

¹³ All these people were still living by faith when they died. They did not receive the things promised; they only saw them and welcomed them from a distance, admitting that they were foreigners and strangers on earth. ¹⁴ People who say such things show that they are looking for a country of their own. ¹⁵ If they had been thinking of the country they had left, they would have had opportunity to return. ¹⁶ Instead, they were longing for a better country—a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared a city for them.

³⁹ These were all commended for their faith, yet none of them received what had been promised, ⁴⁰ since God had planned something better for us so that only together with us would they be made perfect.

So in effect, the Jews are obligated to live by the whole law of Moses in order to possess the promised land and even then, the Old Covenant is dead anyways. It was nothing but a type and shadow of the inheritance promised through Christ.

[Ben Masada]

But Abraham and Isaac never possessed the promised land in their lifetimes (Deut. 10:22), and God delivered the Mosiac Law unto the Hebrews before they ever possessed the promised land, it all points forward to Christ and the New Earth for full fulfillment and the inheritance promised to Christians.

Hebrews 11:8-16, 39-40

⁸ By faith Abraham, when called to go to a place he would later receive as his inheritance, obeyed and went, even though he did not know where he was going. ⁹ By faith he made his home in the promised land like a stranger in a foreign country; he lived in tents, as did Isaac and Jacob, who were heirs with him of the same promise. ¹⁰ For he was looking forward to the city with foundations, whose architect and builder is God. ¹¹ And by faith even Sarah, who was past childbearing age, was enabled to bear children because she considered him faithful who had made the promise. ¹² And so from this one man, and he as good as dead, came descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and as countless as the sand on the seashore.

¹³ All these people were still living by faith when they died. They did not receive the things promised; they only saw them and welcomed them from a distance, admitting that they were foreigners and strangers on earth. ¹⁴ People who say such things show that they are looking for a country of their own. ¹⁵ If they had been thinking of the country they had left, they would have had opportunity to return. ¹⁶ Instead, they were longing for a better country—a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared a city for them.

³⁹ These were all commended for their faith, yet none of them received what had been promised, ⁴⁰ since God had planned something better for us so that only together with us would they be made perfect.

So in effect, the Jews are obligated to live by the whole law of Moses in order to possess the promised land and even then, the Old Covenant is dead anyways. It was nothing but a type and shadow of the inheritance promised through Christ.

Have you ever heard about the Pauline policy of Replacement Theology? That's a concept claimed by some scholars to be a kind of

Christian Anti-Semitism. That's the soul of the NT. If we undress the NT of such a policy, the NT will collapse. That's what you

post above is all about.

[buckskin scout]

Have you ever heard about the Pauline policy of Replacement Theology? That's a concept claimed by some scholars to be a kind of

Christian Anti-Semitism. That's the soul of the NT. If we undress the NT of such a policy, the NT will collapse. That's what you

post above is all about.

Israel is nothing but colonialism wrapped in Biblical clothe. God made a New Covenant with the Jews and Jesus is the final sacrifice for sins. Jesus is found through out the Old Testament.

This New Covenant was built upon greater promises and inheritances than a strip of land in the Middle East.

[Ben Masada]

Israel is nothing but colonialism wrapped in Biblical clothe. God made a New Covenant with the Jews and Jesus is the final sacrifice for sins. Jesus is found through out the Old Testament.

This New Covenant was built upon greater promises and inheritances than a strip of land in the Middle East.

If you show me one single mention of Jesus in the Tanach, I'll bet my word that I'll become a Christian. Can't you see the

embarrassment of such a statement? Jesus was a Jew whose Faith was Judaism and according to the Prophets, no one is supposed to

die for the sins of another. Read Jeremiah 31:30. Do you think Jesus would have contradicted his own Faith?

Why don't you tell me upon what was the New Covenant built? The New Covenant was established with the House of Israel and the

House of Judah. No mention of Gentiles. Read Jeremiah 31:31. Besides, Jesus himself forbade his disciples to take the gospel of

salvation to the Gentiles or even enter a Samaritan town. Read Matthew 10:5,6. What happened if he came to die for every one?

I rest my case on this one.