Adam Kokesh 2020: Abolish the Federal Govt

[Yamato]

As some of you may know, Adam Kokesh's house was raided with a warrant by SWAT and other LEOs on July 9 2013 where magic mushrooms were allegedly found, a shotgun he bore and loaded in Freedom Plaza on July 4, 2013 was confiscated as evidence, and he has been behind bars since July 10, 2013. In an exclusive interview he reveals his plans from jail to run for President on the platform of "the orderly dissolution of the United States Government". Would any of you actually vote for that?

Listening to his girlfriend tell it, his time in jail so far has been...really interesting.

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[Yamato]

Should I take silence as a "no"? I'm taking it as a soft no.

Lots of libertarian leaning folks here....nobody would vote for a ticket based on abolishing the US govt? Other than having balanced budgets is there an actual reason why the States are too incompetent to handle it? Could it be the big three federal entitlements, the military, Social Security, and Medicare/Medicaid?

Are some of us avoiding this discussion because it's too scary to talk about, now that Kokesh is a political prisoner?

Small-govt types, is his platform too extreme? Will these questions probe the limits of your ideology?

Big-government types: How do you feel about the home team putting someone in a cage for having mushrooms?

[Leonardo]

Are some of us avoiding this discussion because it's too scary to talk about,

No, I'm just wondering why he is so obviously being acclaimed a 'hero' for loading a shotgun in a public square, contrary to the State or District law? Is it because he has twitter, youtube and social media savvy?

Edited September 28, 2013 by Leonardo

[Professor Buzzkill]

At least he is trying something to change the corrupt system. Surely state governments are more efficient and accountable than Federal. So what is the actual problem with this suggestion. I have been following Kokesh since he was arrested the first time (before he loaded a shotgun, such a crime, wont somebody please think of the children!?) and i support his thoughts and actions

[Yamato]

No, I'm just wondering why he is so obviously being acclaimed a 'hero' for loading a shotgun in a public square, contrary to the State or District law? Is it because he has twitter, youtube and social media savvy?

He was planning an armed march on DC scheduled for July 4. Many people including me felt it was a crazy idea since the moment your foot crosses the line you are a gun felon who loses his 2nd Amendment rights for life. It was highly controversial, highly criticized, and eventually canceled. Kokesh got a lot of negative feedback on his social media channels. I wonder in hindsight how much he was goaded by other people online to pull this stunt and land himself behind bars. It was a miscalculated risk and a stupid idea. And it's an instance of civil disobedience where he sacrificed himself for a greater good , that's why he's thought of as a hero by some. Although I'm not really sure who you're referring to when you say that.

The 2nd Amendment doesn't say unloaded loaded. It said arms, which without ammo, would be useless.

[Kowalski]

Should I take silence as a "no"? I'm taking it as a soft no.

Lots of libertarian leaning folks here....nobody would vote for a ticket based on abolishing the US govt? Other than having balanced budgets is there an actual reason why the States are too incompetent to handle it? Could it be the big three federal entitlements, the military, Social Security, and Medicare/Medicaid?

Are some of us avoiding this discussion because it's too scary to talk about, now that Kokesh is a political prisoner?

Small-govt types, is his platform too extreme? Will these questions probe the limits of your ideology?

Big-government types: How do you feel about the home team putting someone in a cage for having mushrooms?

Interesting....I'd support him.

Of course, you must remember that some people in the US need the government to wipe their a$$ for them as well....

[acidhead]

Freedom!

[acidhead]

No, I'm just wondering why he is so obviously being acclaimed a 'hero' for loading a shotgun in a public square, contrary to the State or District law? Is it because he has twitter, youtube and social media savvy?

civil disobedience

[Four Winds]

I would love to see some discussion here about this.

No, I'm just wondering why he is so obviously being acclaimed a 'hero' for loading a shotgun in a public square, contrary to the State or District law? Is it because he has twitter, youtube and social media savvy?

While I might not agree with his methods, I got to give him props for standing up for his beliefs and risking jail time.

[Leonardo]

And it's an instance of civil disobedience where he sacrificed himself for a greater good...

What "greater good"? That he thought the law in that District was wrong?

That's not a "greater good", that's just an opinion.

Razer,

While I might not agree with his methods, I got to give him props for standing up for his beliefs and risking jail time.

Does anyone who stands up for their beliefs get "props" from you, regardless their methods?

[Yamato]

To answer my own question, I have to say no, I couldn't vote for Kokesh if this is going to be the platform he runs on. Abolishing the USG abolishes the Constitution as well. This is radical and too dangerous for me. There's no way in the world he could win an election in 2020 running on that when the country couldn't even stomach Ron Paul in 2012. I just don't think the failure is going to be epic enough by 2020 to make such a thing possible. Maybe in another 20-30 years when Adam is in his fifties, after the full force of the fiscal failure is known to all.

[Yamato]

What "greater good"? That he thought the law in that District was wrong?

That's not a "greater good", that's just an opinion.

Razer,

Does anyone who stands up for their beliefs get "props" from you, regardless their methods?

Standing up for one's beliefs is admirable in its own right yes. I'm regarding the methods as well.

The 2nd Amendment along with our other Constitutionally guaranteed rights is the greater good. The rule of law is not an "opinion".

[Gromdor]

I find it ironic that he is advocating dissolution of the federal government and turning over power to the states, when he is famous for violating a local government (D.C.) law on gun control. The only difference I see between state and federal government is that with federal government you at least get uniformity of the law. Though I can see how special interests would be more in favor of the smaller state governments because it would be easier to control.

[Leonardo]

Standing up for one's beliefs is admirable in its own right yes. I'm regarding the methods as well.

The 2nd Amendment along with our other Constitutionally guaranteed rights is the greater good. The rule of law is not an "opinion".

So you are acclaiming this man for standing up for to what amounts to a federal law, and simultaneously denouncing a State/District Law, yet all the while he is campaigning to "abolish federal govt/law and pass authority back to the States."

It sounds like he, and you, are confused as to what institution actually reflects this "greater good".

Edited September 28, 2013 by Leonardo

[Professor Buzzkill]

I find it ironic that he is advocating dissolution of the federal government and turning over power to the states, when he is famous for violating a local government (D.C.) law on gun control. The only difference I see between state and federal government is that with federal government you at least get uniformity of the law. Though I can see how special interests would be more in favor of the smaller state governments because it would be easier to control.

And state governments that sell out would be voted out at the next election. This is how decentralization of power works. You can also expect greater voter turn-out as people realize that in smaller electorates their voice is louder.

And yes, many states would pass stricter gun laws/keep their strict gun laws on the books. But this would just lead to more diverse communities and more choice on what type of society you want to live in.

[Yamato]

So you are acclaiming this man for standing up for to what amounts to a federal law, and simultaneously denouncing a State/District Law, yet all the while he is campaigning to "abolish federal govt/law and pass authority back to the States."

I'm asking questions here bro, not acclaiming anything or attacking anyone for sharing in a discussion. Let's keep this discussion about the topic and not about me.

I find it ironic that he is advocating dissolution of the federal government and turning over power to the states, when he is famous for violating a local government (D.C.) law on gun control. The only difference I see between state and federal government is that with federal government you at least get uniformity of the law. Though I can see how special interests would be more in favor of the smaller state governments because it would be easier to control.

Special interests aren't more in favor of smaller governments; where did that come from? State governments are harder to control because they're closer to the people. The people they're accountable for are all together with more uniform interests. The amount of power you get and the amount of money you can spend on a special interest for smaller states is miniscule compared to the blank checks and the magic zeros of Washington DC.

Edited September 28, 2013 by Yamato

[Leonardo]

And yes, many states would pass stricter gun laws/keep their strict gun laws on the books. But this would just lead to more diverse communities and more choice on what type of society you want to live in.

That could all happen in the current system - if people weren't so keen on using the Constitution ("you can't pass gun-control laws") to homogenise everything.

That it doesn't happen indicates it wouldn't happen sans a federal govt either. All you'd be doing is getting rid of federal govt but nothing else would change (except State govt would grow.)

Edited September 28, 2013 by Leonardo

[Yamato]

That could all happen in the current system - if people weren't so keen on using the Constitution ("you can't pass gun-control laws") to homogenise everything.

It does happen in the current system.

[Drayno]

Abolishing the Federal government is too extreme. Downsize it.

• Abolish The Department of Education
  
• Abolish The Department of Homeland Security
  
• Abolish The TSA
  
• Indict majority of Democrats and Republicans for selling out our country
  
• Indict George W. Bush on War Crimes
  
• Indict Eric Holder for Perjury (lying about Fast and Furious)
  
• Indict Barack Obama for Treason for directly arming Al-Qaeda
  
• Organize Limited Government after another Constitutional Convention
  

Sounds like a good start.

Edited September 28, 2013 by Hatake Kakashi

[acidhead]

Abolishing the Federal government is too extreme. Downsize it.

• Abolish The Department of Education
  
• Abolish The Department of Homeland Security
  
• Abolish The TSA
  
• Indict majority of Democrats and Republicans for selling out our country
  
• Indict George W. Bush on War Crimes
  
• Indict Eric Holder for Perjury (lying about Fast and Furious)
  
• Indict Barack Obama for Treason for directly arming Al-Qaeda
  
• Organize Limited Government after another Constitutional Convention
  

Sounds like a good start.

Yep... Obama got a free ride from both the Ds and Rs for arming the syrian rebels/al qaeda. It's freakin unbelievable! I still can't believe it. Back home in America citizens are being treated as potential domestic terrorists and this adminstration gives weapons to the enemy were told hates freedom? What?!?! Doesnt make any logical sense at all..... that is, of course, if 911 was an inside job.... allowed to happen.

[Drayno]

Yep... Obama got a free ride from both the Ds and Rs for arming the syrian rebels/al qaeda. It's freakin unbelievable! I still can't believe it. Back home in America citizens are being treated as potential domestic terrorists and this adminstration gives weapons to the enemy were told hates freedom? What?!?! Doesnt make any logical sense at all..... that is, of course, if 911 was an inside job.... allowed to happen.

Of course.. Any one who doesn't kiss the ass of the government is a terrorist. Didn't you get the memo?

It's not even an 'if'..

He literally aided the enemy by arming them directly.

That is Treason.

That's punishable by death.

But he'll get off scott-free because of his handlers and blaming Bush for whatever miscellaneous BS.

Edited September 29, 2013 by Hatake Kakashi

[Gromdor]

Special interests aren't more in favor of smaller governments; where did that come from? State governments are harder to control because they're closer to the people. The people they're accountable for are all together with more uniform interests. The amount of power you get and the amount of money you can spend on a special interest for smaller states is miniscule compared to the blank checks and the magic zeros of Washington DC.

Single issue entities like pro/anti-gun lobbies, pro/anti abortion lobbies, etc. could focus their efforts and money state by state instead of having to devote their energy convincing the whole of the United States. Divide and conquer if you will.

[Drayno]

Single issue entities like pro/anti-gun lobbies, pro/anti abortion lobbies, etc. could focus their efforts and money state by state instead of having to devote their energy convincing the whole of the United States. Divide and conquer if you will.

That seems to be the main play of D.C. in general.

[Yamato]

Single issue entities like pro/anti-gun lobbies, pro/anti abortion lobbies, etc. could focus their efforts and money state by state instead of having to devote their energy convincing the whole of the United States. Divide and conquer if you will.

They never have to convince the whole United States, just convince a few puppets to talk some major **** about a problem they discovered (global warming comes to mind) and then sell their bureaucratic solution to the public because it's politically popular to do.

[Yamato]

Police raid on Kokesh's compound, reenacted: