A Step too Far.

[Grandpa Greenman]

At what point do you think any religion (Paganism, Abrahamic, Hindu,etc...) goes to far in its regulation and control of it's members or non members. Where does one draw the line between religious freedom and religious abuse. Be nice y'all.

[ambelamba]

That's a human nature, isn't it?

[ReaperS_ParadoX]

I think every religion has rules that its followers have to obey. But I dont really now what rules catholics have or Hindus or Paganism. But I think as long as the rules are in reason I think its fine

[ambelamba]

I think every religion has rules that its followers have to obey. But I dont really now what rules catholics have or Hindus or Paganism. But I think as long as the rules are in reason I think its fine

Sadly, as an ex-Christian/Catholic/Fundamentalist, I don't think that's the case.

[Leonardo]

As far as I'm concerned, any religion which promises 'special privileges' for its adherents while promoting prejudice against non-adherents has gone too far.

[Mikko-kun]

I think it goes wrong when it's a religion instead of a sincere belief, when you must accommodate the religion and the sincere belief doesn't matter as much to your membership status.

[Frank Merton]

There are Christian (and almost Christian) groups who are noted for their charity, and one is told of the suffering they relieve around the world, but one is not told that the aid only goes to those who join their group.

[Ogbin]

Mikko-kun,

I agree with you.

Matthew 6:2-3 "Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth:"

[Frank Merton]

It is a far site better than organized charities paying executive salaries to the management.

I have to admit I'm of two minds on this. Maybe without having such massive organizations with such salaries, these huge charities would not be able to function as well as they do. Still, it just seems so inappropriate for half or more of the money raised to go for "administration."

[LostSouls7]

When a religion tells you to not live for your self..

but for the organization and their agenda...

that is going way to far man!

it's all about party festival and fun...

I have a connection to nature.. creation the earth...

magical powers etc...

i feel good and happy everyday...

I feel most religions just want you to be a slave to them..

then say you serving God... yet you are making them rich...

and then they try to make you feel bad by saying if you don't slave for them..

you are going against God....

yeah sure...

that's mind control..

and only works on the weak minded...

[GoldenWolf]

Mikko-kun,

I agree with you.

Matthew 6:2-3 "Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth:"

Will you please quit with the preaching.

[Purplos]

How on earth was that preaching? It was a response to Frank Merton's comment about how some religious charities force the recipients to join up or not get help and how that idea is not supported by said religion. Comprehension.

Religions who dictate rather than guide, or exclude rather than discuss generally go too far, imo.

[Likely Guy]

Will you please quit with the preaching.

My guess is, that that's your limit.

[Likely Guy]

In my opinion evangelism goes too far. To try and actively convert someone else with a different set of beliefs (or none) is just wrong.

[Frank Merton]

In my opinion evangelism goes too far. To try and actively convert someone else with a different set of beliefs (or none) is just wrong.

Oh we all do it all the time.

What I don't like are cults coming in and drawing gullible young people into their net and breaking up families and causing no end of pain. Using logic and reason is one thing, using emotional appeals, propaganda techniques, and indoctrination, is another.

[GoldenWolf]

My guess is, that that's your limit.

The only thing he does is put bible quotes up.

[+and-then]

There are Christian (and almost Christian) groups who are noted for their charity, and one is told of the suffering they relieve around the world, but one is not told that the aid only goes to those who join their group.

Quite possibly true and if so then it goes against the commission we are given. Missionaries should give freely just as the gift of salvation was freely given. The only answer I might make for such behavior is that priority would be given to helping those considered "brothers" in the faith. But we are to spread the good news of Christ and to feed and clothe and strengthen every soul as though we were the very hands of the Master. Alas, we are even at our best, still human.

[+and-then]

I believe that any rules of behavior are given for our benefit but if members of a church demand ANYTHING beyond what is written then it is TOO much.

[ambelamba]

I wonder if Ebionites somehow survived and became a somewhat major faction of Christianity, surviving all the possible persecutions.

Personally, I believe that they were the true follower of Jesus. Maybe I am way too convinced by Dr. Maccoby.

[Likely Guy]

Oh we all do it all the time.

How so? If you mean, "in a forum such as this" I disagree. This is more an exchange of ideas, not an active act of conversion. But you may have another intended reason, which I'll wait for.

But everything else that you said about cults, I see your point and agree with you for the obvious reasons. Everyone has the right to their own beliefs. No one has a right to try to make me believe them.

[Frank Merton]

How so? If you mean, "in a forum such as this" I disagree. This is more an exchange of ideas, not an active act of conversion. But you may have another intended reason, which I'll wait for.

But everything else that you said about cults, I see your point and agree with you for the obvious reasons. Everyone has the right to their own beliefs. No one has a right to try to make me believe them.

I think we are all trying to get others to think as we do about things. Now in my case that doesn't involve religious conversion, since I am a half-hearted Buddhist and Buddhism itself doesn't think it has Truth in any special way, but it does mean that I wouldn't mind getting a few people to be more sensible in how they approach the world.

We all think that what we think is true, is true. From this is follows naturally that everyone who thinks differently errs. Then don't we have a responsibility to correct error? Of course the fallacy that flows through this is obvious enough, but the behavior still happens. There are monks who have gotten this tendency under control and who just won't point out others' flawed thinking, but I am not one of them.

[+Paranoid Android]

In my opinion evangelism goes too far. To try and actively convert someone else with a different set of beliefs (or none) is just wrong.

Does that apply to atheists who tell believer's that sky daddy doesn't exist? Or only believers who tell others God exists and wants you to come to relationship with him/her/it/they?

Richard Dawkins could arguably be said to be evangelising to un-church the churched.

[Likely Guy]

I think we are all trying to get others to think as we do about things. Now in my case that doesn't involve religious conversion, since I am a half-hearted Buddhist and Buddhism itself doesn't think it has Truth in any special way, but it does mean that I wouldn't mind getting a few people to be more sensible in how they approach the world.

We all think that what we think is true, is true. From this is follows naturally that everyone who thinks differently errs. Then don't we have a responsibility to correct error? Of course the fallacy that flows through this is obvious enough, but the behavior still happens. There are monks who have gotten this tendency under control and who just won't point out others' flawed thinking, but I am not one of them.

Thanks for the clarification and I see what you mean, but this still isn't 'evangelism', or the act of actively trying to convert someone. But yes, we do try and sway each other to see our point of view.

But I'm an agnostic, so I'm pretty much screwed in that respect. An agnostic cannot 'convert' anyone else who isn't pretty much an agnostic already.

Edit: "Mea culpa", My father's side was Mennonite, so that was pretty much about minding your own religious business as well.

Edited September 30, 2013 by Likely Guy

[Frank Merton]

I have yet to see anything Dawkins published that was untrue or distorted or sly or a case of stacking the deck. Sometimes he makes me wince, but only because he is brutally honest. At least that is how he come over to me.

[Likely Guy]

Does that apply to atheists who tell believer's that sky daddy doesn't exist? Or only believers who tell others God exists and wants you to come to relationship with him/her/it/they?

Richard Dawkins could arguably be said to be evangelising to un-church the churched.

It goes for everyone. In the case of Dawkins, if he's speaking to a crowd of other atheists I don't have a problem. If he's standing on a church's steps espousing his (non)beliefs, then I do have a problem.

In a forum such as this, "Spirituality vs Skepticism ", a clash of belief systems is to be expected and, in my opinion, it doesn't mean that anyone is evangelising.