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ambelamba

Thoughts on Virgin Mary

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What I am about to say will probably baffle many Catholics. Probably it won't offend them, but will make them "Huh?".

So let's say Mary the mother of Jesus is really the Queen of Heaven. And she gets all the praise and veneration. Now I have a serious 'out of the box' question.

Would she enjoy all the brown-nosing? Seriously, can people think of the possibility that all the veneration is exactly the thing that Mary wants to avoid?

Maybe it's an exclusive kind of idea in Asia, but it is said that truly enlightened person will humbly avoid all the praises. Why should Mary any different? What if all the apparitions are nothing but metaphysical follies and real Mary wants be peacefully left alone?

Same thing can be applied to God. What if true God of universe has absolutely no interest in glorifying himself, unlike Christian Bible suggests? You know, I think it's kinda like opening a whole silo full of worms. But sometimes it's fun to think about other possibilities without outright blasphemy.

Now I picture how real Mary the mother of Jesus was. A Semite girl who's barely into her teens. She looks nothing like that frakking porcelain doll. An elfin, olive-skinned girl who doesn't know how to read or write, which is very typical for pretty much everyone back then. I can't even imagine how her personality was. Considering that 1st century Palestine was one of the roughest place to live in the entire planet, wouldn't she be a tough girl? I have no idea.

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Mary is the compassionate supplicant who prays for our souls and beseeches mercy on our behalf. Her acts are completely humble and I do not believe that she can be "brown nosed" by anyone but will simply continue to pray and perhaps, if the stories are true of Fatima and Madjegorje amongst others, intercede to assist us when we are lost or losing our way.

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Mary is the Roman Catholic equivalent of our Quan Yin (Or Guanyin according to Wikkipedia). There are similar statues of her all over Vietnam. The one improvement is we don't have the bloody ones.

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Mary is the Roman Catholic equivalent of our Quan Yin (Or Guanyin according to Wikkipedia). There are similar statues of her all over Vietnam. The one improvement is we don't have the bloody ones.

You nailed it. Thank you.

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Vietnamese often accept compliments or gifts without any comment. To thank the person giving it is to take away from their merit by giving them a reward.

I must say that is an old fashioned idea and most Vietnamese now generally follow Western practice on this.

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Posted (edited)

If you look at the scripture (taken from the Aramaic translation) you can see that she knew that she was blessed and that all generations would honour her.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English

“For he has regarded the lowliness of his Maidservant, for behold, from this hour all generations will ascribe blessedness to me.”

I think libstak said it eloquently.

Edited by Star of the Sea
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Mary is the Roman Catholic equivalent ur Quan Yin (Or Guanyin according to Wikkipedia). There are similar statues of her all over Vietnam. The one improvement is we don't have the bloody ones.

I can see why you would try and compare Guanyin, but when I look at the story of Guanyin I can't see any parallels with regard to the Virgin Mary, who according to tradition gave birth to the son God.

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Of course you wouldn't see the similarity. You have to have eyes in order to see.

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Of course you wouldn't see the similarity. You have to have eyes in order to see.

Hi Frank,

I'm just going out for the day. I'd be interested to see your thoughts on why you think this. Have a great day. :)

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Mary plays a role very similar in Roman Catholics that Quan Yin plays in China and related countries. She is a consolation mother figure one can pray to or adore and receive mercy and blessings and consolation. Even the standard ways of displaying the two figures demonstrate this.

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Thanks for replying Frank with your thoughts. Apologies as I couldn't directly quote from your reply as I am having trouble posting using my phone. I appreciate that the Virgin Mary and Quan Yin have the same sort of veneration etc but the actual back story of them both is so far removed that I can't JIMO see any similarities.

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I can see why you would try and compare Guanyin, but when I look at the story of Guanyin I can't see any parallels with regard to the Virgin Mary, who according to tradition gave birth to the son God.

The psychological mechanism of the veneration of two are basically the same.

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The psychological mechanism of the veneration of two are basically the same.

Yes I see that, but as I said to Frank I can understand the veneration etc is similar but that is all ambelamba.

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They are both mythical goddesses; what more can be said.

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They are both mythical goddesses; what more can be said.

The Virgin Mary is not a godess Frank :P

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The Virgin Mary is not a godess Frank :P

Of course whatever you say.
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Mary is the compassionate supplicant who prays for our souls and beseeches mercy on our behalf. Her acts are completely humble and I do not believe that she can be "brown nosed" by anyone but will simply continue to pray and perhaps, if the stories are true of Fatima and Madjegorje amongst others, intercede to assist us when we are lost or losing our way.

If the blessed virgin Mary is praying for our minds and pleading for our mercy from God the Father, then there is more than one mediator/high priest. But the Bible says Jesus is our mediator. It also says not to pray to the Queen of Heaven. But what do Catholics care? I sounds good, makes them feel good to have a woman help run the heavenly house - - who cares what God says.

Edited by Copen

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If the blessed virgin Mary is praying for our minds and pleading for our mercy from God the Father, then there is more than one mediator/high priest. But the Bible says Jesus is our mediator. It also says not to pray to the Queen of Heaven. But what do Catholics care? I sounds good, makes them feel good to have a woman help run the heavenly house - - who cares what God says.

Mary supplicates as many saints do, as we do when we pray for others - she is not "helping run the heavenly house" that's just your take on it. It all sounds good - Jesus saving us from our sins sounds good, claiming to know what God says and that others are in the category of ignoring what God says sounds good too, if you want to judge someone else's beliefs it makes for a great piece of special pleading, have fun with that - you want to know what Catholics care, then have a care for the humanity of catholics and give them some credit for caring in the first place.

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People Our Lady is the way to Jesus. She will lead you to him. So much love God has for her please read what transpired at her coronation:

After placing the most blessed Mary on this glorious and prominent throne, the Lord declared to the heavenly court all the privileges Mary would have in virtue of participation in his majesty. The Person of the eternal Father, as the first principle of all things, speaking to the angels and saints, said to them: "Our Daughter Mary was chosen according to our pleasure from amongst all creatures, the first one to delight Us, and who never fell from the title and position of Daughter, such as We had given Her in our divine mind; She has a claim on our dominion, which We shall recognize by crowning Her as the legitimate and peerless Lady and Sovereign." The incarnate (Christ) said: "To my true and natural Mother belong all the creatures which were created and redeemed by Me; and of all things over which I am King, She too shall be the legitimate and supreme Queen." The Holy Ghost said: "Since She is called my beloved and chosen Spouse, She deserves to be crowned as Queen for all eternity."

The three divine Persons (Trinity) then placed upon the head of the most blessed Mary a crown of such new splendor the like has never been seen before nor after by any mere creature. At the same time a voice sounded from the throne saying: "My Beloved, chosen among the creatures, our kingdom is yours; Thou shall be the Lady and the Sovereign of the seraphim, of all the ministering spirits, the angels and of the entire universe of creatures. Attend now, proceed and govern prosperously over them, for in our supreme court we give you power, majesty and rule. Receive now the supreme dignity deserved by you, and with participation in our Divinity, the dominion over all the creatures of our Omnipotence. By the power we now give you shall reign from the royal throne to the center of the earth. You shall subject hell with all its demons and inhabitants. Let all of them fear you as the supreme Empress and Mistress of those caverns and dwelling-places of our enemies.

In your hands and at your pleasure we place the influences and forces of the heavens, the moisture of the clouds, the growths of the earth all to distribute according to your will, and our own will shall be at your disposal for the execution of your wishes. You shall be the Empress and Mistress of the militant Church, its Protector, its Advocate, its Mother and Teacher. You shall be the special Patroness of the Catholic countries; and whenever they call upon you from their heart, serve or oblige you, you shall relieve and help them in their labors and necessities. You shall be the Friend, the Defender and the Chieftain of all the just and of our friends; all of them you shall comfort, console, and fill with blessings according to their devotion to you. In view of all this we make you the steward of our riches, the Treasurer of our goods; we place into your hands the helps and blessings of our grace for distribution. Whatever we wish to be given to the world will pass through your hands, and we will deny nothing you wish to concede to men. Grace shall be spread in your lips for obtaining all that you wish in heaven and on earth. Everywhere shall angels and men obey you. Whatever is ours shall be yours just as you have always been ours, and you shall reign with us forever."

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Mary supplicates as many saints do, as we do when we pray for others - she is not "helping run the heavenly house" that's just your take on it. It all sounds good - Jesus saving us from our sins sounds good, claiming to know what God says and that others are in the category of ignoring what God says sounds good too, if you want to judge someone else's beliefs it makes for a great piece of special pleading, have fun with that - you want to know what Catholics care, then have a care for the humanity of catholics and give them some credit for caring in the first place.

Mary nor none of the saints supplicate for anyone else. My judgment is only what the Bible says about it. The rest is fairy tale make believe. I'm willing to accept anything I may have overlooked. was ignorant was in the Bible, or misunderstood; but it has to be supported by the word of God - - that means the Bible.

God bless

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That's some interesting material, olmc. Where did it come from?

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That's some interesting material, olmc. Where did it come from?

Its from the Mystical city of God. a fantastic book written by Sister Mary of Jesus of Agreda. She actually took dictation from Mary and Jesus to complete this work. The entire book is based on the life of Our Blessed Mother. You can read the whole book for free at www.themostholyrosary.com/mystical-city.htm

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Mary ...translated to primeroot....bitter and rebellious

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