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Big Bad Voodoo

China: We don't do shutdowns

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http://atimes.com/atimes/China/CHIN-02-041013.html

The latest superpower dysfunctional spectacular, aka the US shutdown, has forced President Barack Obama to cancel an entire Asian trip. First the White House announced Obama was shutting down Malaysia and the Philippines - supposed stars of the "pivoting to Asia".

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China: We Don't do Democracy

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China: We Don't do Democracy

Sure they dont. But we can argue did Communism won? and what is future? Will Europe go to totalirism like China or China will turn to democracy? ;)

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Sure they dont. But we can argue did Communism won? and what is future? Will Europe go to totalirism like China or China will turn to democracy? ;)

I think totalitarian capitalists

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I think totalitarian capitalists

Thats my guess too. But still there is people who think that China will change.

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Thats my guess too. But still there is people who think that China will change.

Always possible. And in fact it has changed I think from the way things were at the time of Tienemen square (sorry about the spelling)

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China - "We don't do shutdowns, we just shoot members of the governments families until they cooperate".

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Sure they dont. But we can argue did Communism won? and what is future? Will Europe go to totalirism like China or China will turn to democracy? ;)

Communism didn't win. Communism failed. What China has is not Communism.

China will falter because what they have built is unsustainable.

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I think totalitarian capitalists

That's not a completely unfair description, and to my mind not a bad situation, so long as whoever is at the top is intelligent, sane, pragmatic, and reasonably compassionate. The Chinese system of selecting the leadership once every five years with mandatory retirements works great so long as no one finds a way to circumvent it (as Putin did in Russia).

Thats my guess too. But still there is people who think that China will change.

Well yes. Change always happens everywhere all the time.

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That's not a completely unfair description, and to my mind not a bad situation, so long as whoever is at the top is intelligent, sane, pragmatic, and reasonably compassionate. The Chinese system of selecting the leadership once every five years with mandatory retirements works great so long as no one finds a way to circumvent it (as Putin did in Russia).

Well yes. Change always happens everywhere all the time.

I was going to ask what would keep someone from circumventing it but I suppose any system can be circumvented, America being a prime example

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I was going to ask what would keep someone from circumventing it but I suppose any system can be circumvented, America being a prime example

About the only way I think it can be circumvented is if the existing leadership somehow (bribes?) gets the cooperation of the military. That the leadership should not come out of the military is I think a given.

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China - "We don't do shutdowns, we just shoot members of the governments families until they cooperate".

Well said..

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Well said..

No it was nonsense or propaganda or both.

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No it was nonsense or propaganda or both.

So Communists don't use intimidation?

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that's the great advantage of a one-party state, see. It really is the only way to have an effective government.

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Communism didn't win. Communism failed. What China has is not Communism.

China will falter because what they have built is unsustainable.

but did Capitalism and "Democracy" win, or have, to be quite honest, they both been tried and both failed in the textbook forms, so maybe it's time to try something that perhaps combines the most effective and beneficial aspects of both?

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I think a one-party meritocracy (where the "best and the brightest" are the party) is the sort of thing philosophers have dreamed of. There is many a slip between the ideal and the reality. However, actually realized it would remove the problems inherent in popular elections of corruption, vote buying with programs, uninformed and selfish voters, campaign expenses and how to raise the money for them, and others.

A couple of issues with the modern party in Vietnam is the tendency of families of party members to think their children should automatically get invited, and the prevalence of Northerners in the party. These are being addressed. More and more nowadays being a college graduate is the main test, although of course willingness to be a member is also needed.

There is no particular advantage any more of being a party member, and a lot of work. Within the party things are decided by majorities and then a consensus tends to follow, although of course different views sometimes persist, they are not made public. A situation where everyone involved knows everyone else on a working basis helps those best qualified be recognized and rise higher, without the public grandstanding seen in democracies.

Indeed, probably the fear of "personality cults" tends to filter out ambitious and grandstanding types.

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but did Capitalism and "Democracy" win, or have, to be quite honest, they both been tried and both failed in the textbook forms, so maybe it's time to try something that perhaps combines the most effective and beneficial aspects of both?

I think the arms race brought down the soviet union as they bankrupted themselves trying to match America bomb for bomb. Now it seems America is bankrupting ourselves because the military industrial complex is out of control and we can't stop defense growth

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I think a one-party meritocracy (where the "best and the brightest" are the party) is the sort of thing philosophers have dreamed of. There is many a slip between the ideal and the reality. However, actually realized it would remove the problems inherent in popular elections of corruption, vote buying with programs, uninformed and selfish voters, campaign expenses and how to raise the money for them, and others.

A couple of issues with the modern party in Vietnam is the tendency of families of party members to think their children should automatically get invited, and the prevalence of Northerners in the party. These are being addressed. More and more nowadays being a college graduate is the main test, although of course willingness to be a member is also needed.

There is no particular advantage any more of being a party member, and a lot of work. Within the party things are decided by majorities and then a consensus tends to follow, although of course different views sometimes persist, they are not made public. A situation where everyone involved knows everyone else on a working basis helps those best qualified be recognized and rise higher, without the public grandstanding seen in democracies.

Indeed, probably the fear of "personality cults" tends to filter out ambitious and grandstanding types.

I can see how such a system can work in theory. At it's best it could be efficient and do much for the country it rules. At worst you end up with a situation like N Korea. There is a huge culture gap between the east and west though and I can't see it happening here. Democracy should be about free exchange of ideas and compromise to find the best course for everybody but sometime people's views harden and we end up polarised in uncompromising positions and we have stalemate like now

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I can see how such a system can work in theory. At it's best it could be efficient and do much for the country it rules. At worst you end up with a situation like N Korea. There is a huge culture gap between the east and west though and I can't see it happening here. Democracy should be about free exchange of ideas and compromise to find the best course for everybody but sometime people's views harden and we end up polarised in uncompromising positions and we have stalemate like now

No I'm not suggesting it could or should happen anywhere else. The days of that sort of ideological expansionism are long over.

I can't see a situation like North Korea happening here; the worst would be someone with too much ego to let go, kinda like Putin or Castro. I really don't think the party as it is now would tolerate that here. Five or fewer years and you retire, end of story.

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No I'm not suggesting it could or should happen anywhere else. The days of that sort of ideological expansionism are long over.

I can't see a situation like North Korea happening here; the worst would be someone with too much ego to let go, kinda like Putin or Castro. I really don't think the party as it is now would tolerate that here. Five or fewer years and you retire, end of story.

I wish congress had such term limits here. New people and new ideas and also I think corruption has less chance to become entrenched
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