Indigo childrens

[qxcontinuum]

Not really a legend but more a reality;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indigo_children

[EnderOTD]

So the kids are wrongly labeled as add and adhd? Sounds like New Age therorists trying to relate children with special needs as a higher superiority. Honestly, I wouldnt want them to be my supervisor or boss. I have had friends with ADHD, and they were to crazy for me to be around. They thought the same thing, that they were some higher form of hyper active intelligence, they wouldn't take their medication, and talk incessantly about nothing for hours on end. Funny thing, when they did actually take their medication, my goodness, you could actually have a conversation with them, crazy right.

[Gummug]

As the referenced article implies (imo) anything to deny one's child has a problem.

[Kaa-Tzik]

Perhaps to move away from new age garbage and excuses for bad behaviour and view "Indigo Children" in more real scientific light, as was done in Soviet Union in 1960s and 1970s. Experiments were carried out into telekinesis with children and other subjects. Most notable were the experiments carried out at Leningrad by Nina Kulagina. Experiments were filmed and some demonstrations given to various scientists from around the world. It is true not all were convinced, and there were accusations of magicians illusions being used, but none of the experiments could actually be shown to be faked. It has come down as received wisdom to the recent times that all were faked, and everything is now ridiculed, but this is on the basis of a few people back in the days not prepared to give any great thought to the matter, and the detractors were all American or Italian.

Perhaps one day the work will continue and lift it out of the slur of pseudoscience. I made some strong statements in another thread against charlatans and pseudoscience, I know these things when I see them, yet in the matter of Kulagina's experiments I see some reality, yes, even if it seems impossible and breaks various physical laws. I wanted to link to the films of telekinetc experiments with children, but there they seem to have all vanished from youtube. There is one "famous" one of a boy setting light to a peice of paper by "thought", but all vanished it seems....

Edited October 5, 2013 by Kaa-Tzik

[Frank Merton]

Well does it occur to you the trickery was not demonstrated because no one was allowed to watch the filming?

[Kaa-Tzik]

Well does it occur to you the trickery was not demonstrated because no one was allowed to watch the filming?

They were, including two noble lauriates. The critiscism is that no professional magicians were allowed access. I don't think it normal that experiments of any kind need magicians to attend and give their approval.

[Frank Merton]

They were, including two noble lauriates. The critiscism is that no professional magicians were allowed access. I don't think it normal that experiments of any kind need magicians to attend and give their approval.

You are funny. You really are. I really broke up when I read your response.

I have to wonder why they would ban professional magicians. Now why do you think? By the way, what Nobel Laureates? In physics or mathematics or literature or medicine or peace? Does that qualify them to spot trickery? It seems they were suspicious but couldn't identify the trick. Of course not, they are not magicians.

[Kaa-Tzik]

You are funny. You really are. I really broke up when I read your response.

I have to wonder why they would ban professional magicians. Now why do you think? By the way, what Nobel Laureates? In physics or mathematics or literature or medicine or peace? Does that qualify them to spot trickery? It seems they were suspicious but couldn't identify the trick. Of course not, they are not magicians.

To invite magicians was never given a thought, why should it be, these were serious experiments. It was only later that people complained about lack of magicians, not at the time. There was a desire by the West to ridicule these experiments, and it succeeded. Should all physical experiments be attended by magicians? It is ridiculous as having an atheist attend all religious services to keep mentioning that wine is not being turned into blood and bread to flesh. And as for what Nobel laureates, I have no idea, it was mentioned that among 40 scientists who witnessed an experiment in 1970 were two.

Edited October 5, 2013 by Kaa-Tzik

[Frank Merton]

To invite magicians was never given a thought, why should it be, these were serious experiments. It was only later that people complained about lack of magicians, not at the time. There was a desire by the West to ridicule these experiments, and it succeeded.

Convenient. Under the circumstances you want to believe and I see through it, so further discussion is kinda pointless.

[Kaa-Tzik]

Convenient. Under the circumstances you want to believe and I see through it, so further discussion is kinda pointless.

What a snipy comment. These experiments were not shown to be faked at the time, or since. You prove them fake then, go on. And show why magicians should attend scientific experiments. I doubt you even heard of these experiments until I made my post, and you become, as so many here, an instant expert to pass judgement from ignorance. If your purpose is to be a nay sayer for the sake of it, as I suspect, then please throw your opinions down the toilet.

Edited October 5, 2013 by Kaa-Tzik

[Frank Merton]

Whatever; you deserve it for swallowing Russian stuff like that.

[Kaa-Tzik]

Whatever; you deserve it for swallowing Russian stuff like that.

Rather a mean spirited and pompous individual aren't you. I suggest a course of laxatives may cure you, though I doubt it. I tend not to make strong comments about a subject I know nothing, or little about, I suggest you do the same, as you are out of your depth in this thread. Your ignorance is matched only by your desire to be argumentative for the sake of it. Likes of you are ten a penny on this forum, good riddance to you.

[Frank Merton]

A good course in logic and in the behavior of con artists might help you.

It is informative when people know deep inside they are wrong but they react by accusing the other person of stuff.

[Rafterman]

They were, including two noble lauriates. The critiscism is that no professional magicians were allowed access. I don't think it normal that experiments of any kind need magicians to attend and give their approval.

There are several instances where similar tests were carried out and convinced scientists and even Noble Lauriates only to be found out later that they were fooled by simple parlor tricks.

So, yes, it is important to have magicians there - folks like James Randi, Penn & Teller, and Banachek.

As for Indigo Children, it's just sad really that these parents because of their delusion aren't getting their children the treatment they need. Another child welfare success story by Jenny McCarthy.

Edited October 5, 2013 by Rafterman

[JesseCuster]

So the kids are wrongly labeled as add and adhd? Sounds like New Age therorists trying to relate children with special needs as a higher superiority. Honestly, I wouldnt want them to be my supervisor or boss. I have had friends with ADHD, and they were to crazy for me to be around. They thought the same thing, that they were some higher form of hyper active intelligence, they wouldn't take their medication, and talk incessantly about nothing for hours on end. Funny thing, when they did actually take their medication, my goodness, you could actually have a conversation with them, crazy right.

I have a nephew with suspected ADHD. He's waiting for an appointment to be assessed. He's only 5 but constantly in trouble in school because he can't stop talking to people beside him during class about trains (he fecking loves trains). Also tells a lot of odd stories. He once saw a guy walking down the street who happened to be someone his mother knows but he'd never met before. He pointed at him and said "I remember when he used to be my uncle!". He told me before some really odd story about how he was spawned by God when he was born (I think he picked up the word spawn from watching his older brother playing video games that involve "spawn points" like Minecraft).

He's my nephew and I love him, but I just think he's a bit odd. But kids are odd in general I suppose.

[Kaa-Tzik]

There are several instances where similar tests were carried out and convinced scientists and even Noble Lauriates only to be found out later that they were fooled by simple parlor tricks.

So, yes, it is important to have magicians there - folks like James Randi, Penn & Teller, and Banachek.

As for Indigo Children, it's just sad really that these parents because of their delusion aren't getting their children the treatment they need. Another child welfare success story by Jenny McCarthy.

Thing is with these experiments is that they were not found to be faked later, though they were condemned, principaly by Americans in the cold war, who were conducting their own similar experiments I believe.....

I simply suggest, in a mild way, that perhaps these experiments be revisited, and I am made to seem like re-incarnation of Blavatsky or Hitler.

[Rafterman]

Thing is with these experiments is that they were not found to be faked later, though they were condemned, principaly by Americans in the cold war, who were conducting their own similar experiments I believe.....

I simply suggest, in a mild way, that perhaps these experiments be revisited, and I am made to seem like re-incarnation of Blavatsky or Hitler.

There is enough to question about these experiments to cause one to doubt them. The mere fact that there was tremendous propaganda value for the Soviets is enough to question the authenticity of the experiments. Add to that the fact that there is zero credible evidence of anyone possessing these types of abilities and there's really no reason to take the Soviet experiments seriously.

[Kaa-Tzik]

There is enough to question about these experiments to cause one to doubt them. The mere fact that there was tremendous propaganda value for the Soviets is enough to question the authenticity of the experiments. Add to that the fact that there is zero credible evidence of anyone possessing these types of abilities and there's really no reason to take the Soviet experiments seriously.

And anything of tremendous propaganda value for the Americans should then be discounted as whatever it was would simply be "propaganda"

There is, imo, suffcient reason to continue the experiments. Not so much the ones by Kalugina, I really only used her as an example because I thought her name and experiments may be more recognisable, but with the telekinesis experiments done with children. I know they are condemned as fake, but they are condemned almost entirely by Americans with an axe to grind and who have no real knowledge of these experiments at all except that they have seen some of the films. I don't claim that we actually see telekinesis, but those who would be skeptiks about this need to argue from a position of real knowledge and not the instant variety all too often seen online. The entire affair needs to be re-visited to give a firm conclusion either for or against. I'm a skeptik on many things, little green men, pyramidology etc, yet I realise that sometimes skeptiscism can be too dogmatic and lacking in imagination. By all means rip to shreds the charlatans who peddle nonsense for $, but it is still necessary to dream and experiment, just to see what is what.

[qxcontinuum]

funny how kids with ADHD are considered "sick" here or semi retarded while in many European countries this syndrome is not even taken in consideration by contrary they are considered imaginative gifted, future artists.

of course the some institutions here in N America won't see them fit in the big picture. They are in fact only needing followers not potential future leaders who can change existing realities outside the plan.

The indigo children are actually gifted not retards

And the characteristics below presented, copied from Wiki are NOT defects but qualities... interesting how some of you were thinking right to defective functionalities just because someone else a higher supremacy was saying so...

Descriptions of indigo children include:

• the belief that they are empathetic, curious, strong-willed, independent, and often perceived by friends and family as being strange;
  
• possess a clear sense of self-definition and purpose;
  
• exhibit a strong innate sub-conscious spirituality from early childhood (which, however, does not necessarily imply a direct interest in spiritual or religious areas);
  
• a strong feeling of entitlement, or "deserving to be here."
  

Other alleged traits include:^[8][10]

• a high intelligence quotient, an inherent intuitive ability; and
  
• resistance to rigid, control-based paradigms of authority.
  

According to Tober and Carroll, indigo children may function poorly in conventional schools due to their rejection of rigid authority, being smarter (or more spiritually mature) than their teachers, and a lack of response to guilt-, fear- or manipulation-based discipline.^[12]

Edited October 7, 2013 by qxcontinuum

[Kaa-Tzik]

funny how kids with ADHD are considered "sick" here or semi retarded while in many European countries this syndrome is not even taken in consideration by contrary they are considered imaginative gifted, future artists.

You're right, there is a cultural gap between America and Europe, particulary East. Seems in America Indigo is seen either as new age nonsense that turns people off, or that they are simply naughty. The general public opinion in, say Russia, is that these are gifted children, not naughty or spoiled brats. Perhaps this is why the telekinesis experiments with children are not rudely dismissed out of hand as they are by Americans.

[Rlyeh]

funny how kids with ADHD are considered "sick" here or semi retarded while in many European countries this syndrome is not even taken in consideration by contrary they are considered imaginative gifted, future artists.

of course the some institutions here in N America won't see them fit in the big picture. They are in fact only needing followers not potential future leaders who can change existing realities outside the plan.

The indigo children are actually gifted not retards

They're special all right. Rain man was gifted too.

And the characteristics below presented, copied from Wiki are NOT defects but qualities... interesting how some of you were thinking right to defective functionalities just because someone else a higher supremacy was saying so...

If you bothered to read the article the qualities can fit anyone. Indigo children are the invention of new age quacks for pathetic parenting.

Descriptions of indigo children include:

• the belief that they are empathetic, curious, strong-willed, independent, and often perceived by friends and family as being strange;
  
• possess a clear sense of self-definition and purpose;
  
• exhibit a strong innate sub-conscious spirituality from early childhood (which, however, does not necessarily imply a direct interest in spiritual or religious areas);
  
• a strong feeling of entitlement, or "deserving to be here."
  

Other alleged traits include:^[8][10]

• a high intelligence quotient, an inherent intuitive ability; and
  
• resistance to rigid, control-based paradigms of authority.
  

According to Tober and Carroll, indigo children may function poorly in conventional schools due to their rejection of rigid authority, being smarter (or more spiritually mature) than their teachers, and a lack of response to guilt-, fear- or manipulation-based discipline.^[12]

Good job, you've just described a narcissistic. Edited October 7, 2013 by Rlyeh

[ChrLzs]

What a snipy comment. These experiments were not shown to be faked at the time, or since. You prove them fake then, go on. And show why magicians should attend scientific experiments. I doubt you even heard of these experiments until I made my post, and you become, as so many here, an instant expert to pass judgement from ignorance. If your purpose is to be a nay sayer for the sake of it, as I suspect, then please throw your opinions down the toilet.

Instead of attacking the doubter, how's about you do what you should have done at the outset, and show evidence for these claims. All you have done is made claims without providing any supporting evidence.

Now, I'm guessing that the "Nina Kulagina" you mention can't possibly be *this* fraudster, can it - so can you point out some links and cites (many of which are completely missing from the wiki) to someone who is credible?

Frankly, saying that unnamed nobel laureates were fooled by a conjurer/hoaxer/illusionist is not only completely irrelevant (and it is currently unsupported - do you have these laureates names, and the full details of the experiments?) it also reeks of the sort of hogwash that hoaxers use to convince the gullible. Me, I watch Derren Brown and even though he explains much of what he does, he sometimes astounds me with his trickery...

But feel free to post your best evidence of Nina's claims, and I'll be happy to tell you how she did them (they have been covered in detail elsewhere, and frankly, her 'performances' are laughable..)

[Kaa-Tzik]

Instead of attacking the doubter, how's about you do what you should have done at the outset, and show evidence for these claims. All you have done is made claims without providing any supporting evidence.

Now, I'm guessing that the "Nina Kulagina" you mention can't possibly be *this* fraudster, can it - so can you point out some links and cites (many of which are completely missing from the wiki) to someone who is credible?

Frankly, saying that unnamed nobel laureates were fooled by a conjurer/hoaxer/illusionist is not only completely irrelevant (and it is currently unsupported - do you have these laureates names, and the full details of the experiments?) it also reeks of the sort of hogwash that hoaxers use to convince the gullible. Me, I watch Derren Brown and even though he explains much of what he does, he sometimes astounds me with his trickery...

But feel free to post your best evidence of Nina's claims, and I'll be happy to tell you how she did them (they have been covered in detail elsewhere, and frankly, her 'performances' are laughable..)

What a snipy comment

And I have not made any claims at all, try reading what I wrote and not what you think I wrote. Somebody attacks me for no reason than they are self opinionated and like the sound of their own voice, I will give back....

Edited October 7, 2013 by Kaa-Tzik

[ChrLzs]

What a perfect way to avoid scrutiny and not post what you should have done right at the start.

I take it you have looked at the evidence and seen for yourself how lame it is. The woman was a fraud, the experiments are not documented.

Feel free to show otherwise or once again go with the ad hominem and hope nobody notices why.

[Kaa-Tzik]

What a perfect way to avoid scrutiny and not post what you should have done right at the start.

I take it you have looked at the evidence and seen for yourself how lame it is. The woman was a fraud, the experiments are not documented.

Feel free to show otherwise or once again go with the ad hominem and hope nobody notices why.

What rubbish!. I'm not putting forward any proposition, so how am I avoiding scrutiny? I merely point out that experiments were done that have not been disproved, that is fact. And I think if you look at the sequence of posts in this thread you will find that I was attacked out of the blue, just as you are doing......