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Indrid

Ghost Box

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Some of you may recall a thread in which I asked for people's opinions on the phone application "Ghost Radar" that is available for most smartphones in some form or another. While it was a nifty app, there were no reliable testimonies or evidence to validate the software' legitimacy. In short, it was there to be used more for fun than actual research.

Not too long after I had made that original thread, my periodic delving into paranormal "evidence" on the web led me to the discovery of the "Ghost Box". This device intrigued me. It seemed to require more effort in the even one were attempting to preform a hoax than say your standard EVP. One can easily whisper whilst recording with a device, upload it to the Internet and call it an "EVP". Yet in the case of the Ghost Box, I would think an extra amount of skill and time invested is required to recreate the audio effects that the Ghost Box produces while inserting ones own desired words and phrases into the recording.

I have zero experience in using a Ghost Box but after watching a number of videos online I'm curious to know why there isn't a greater amount of attention paid to this method if it is seemingly so reliable and regularly produces results for all sorts of individuals.

Steven Huff has a YouTube channel called "Huff Paranormal" I believe. He has recorded countless Ghost Box sessions and his recordings seem quite convincing. Although I am still doubtful. While someone's accounts may be believable and convincing, and hell I may even say "Well this could be possible", I never truly believe something until I experience it firsthand.

So, is picking up a Ghost Box worth the try? Do you have experience with one? What do the skeptics says?

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Most smart phones, like the iPhone contain several sensors. They typically have light detectors for adjusting the screen brightness, a proximity sensor for turning off the display when the phone is close to your face, an accelerometer for detecting movement and orientation, gyroscope for enhanced motion detection, and a magnetometer for compass functions. There are many EMF detector apps that use the magnetometer to sense changes in the ambient magnetic field.

The idea behind EMF detectors the way ghost busters use them is predicated on the assumption that ghosts are electromagnetic in nature. So if ghosts exist and they are in fact electromagnetic that puts them is a very large club with thousands of natural and man made sources of EMF. Here is a partial list of what might also be moving the meter of your EMF detector:

Transformers including CFLs

Live electrical wiring

Radio and TV broadcasts including commercial radio, HAM, CB, police, fire, and military radio bands.

Microwave ovens

Terrestrial telecommunications relays

Satellite relays

Cell towers

RADAR used for weather, navigation, air traffic control

Garage door openers

Electric generators

Automotive ignition systems

Electric motors

Cell phones

Wifi access points

Computers

Wireless devices including toys, cordless phones, baby monitors,and Bluetooth

Digital recording devices

Locomotives

Static electricity on your body/clothing

Your nervous system

Earth's magnetosphere

The piezoelectric effect

Cosmic radiation

Solar flares, sun spots, CMEs

Electrical storms (even ones 100 miles away)

Geologic formations

There are many, many more and you don't even have to be close to some of them to detect their fields. We are bathed in EM fields every minute of every day no matter where we are and the likelihood of you being able to determine the source of a subtle flicker on your EMF meter is ridiculously small. For EMF results to be valid, you would have to control out everything listed above and more.

Ghost boxes are just radio scanners. They scan randomly or sequentially though a given part of the RF spectrum outputting bits of audio along the way. The audio is not voices from the other side but rather small chunks of commercial broadcasts mixed up in a random sequence.

There is no science to ghost hunting despite all of the electronic devices carried by ghost busters.

Edited by sinewave
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Yes i agree that the Ghost Box is very interesting indeed. I would like to try it out myself if i can get my hands on one.

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Mini Boxes are fascinating, I never used one but I've seen some very interesting results. It's popularity among the paranormal communities is rising for it has shown potential.

Aside from Huffparanormal, KBeeze13 is quite active on youtube as well: http://www.youtube.c...3?feature=watch

Perhaps you should test it by yourself, and see what it can do in real time. Though it was difficult a few years ago for the common folk to get a Mini Box working (you had to hack a mini radioshack radio 12-587) now Ghost Hunting sites are selling them ready to use. (http://www.ghoststop...unting-s/59.htm)

Ghost boxes are just radio scanners. They scan randomly or sequentially though a given part of the RF spectrum outputting bits of audio along the way. The audio is not voices from the other side but rather small chunks of commercial broadcasts mixed up in a random sequence.

I am not convinced of that. The reason is simple: You ask direct questions and can get direct answers. It's possible to hold a coherent conversation with the voice(s) coming out of the box. So, while I think chunks of commercial broadcasts do get mixed up and can be misinterpreted, pushing the coincidence too far doesn't explain what people are experiencing.

Is it possible that some kind of entities can communicate through that in real time EVPs? I think it should not be ruled out so quickly.

Edited by sam_comm
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Mini Boxes are fascinating, I never used one but I've seen some very interesting results. It's popularity among the paranormal communities is rising for it has shown potential.

Aside from Huffparanormal, KBeeze13 is quite active on youtube as well: http://www.youtube.c...3?feature=watch

Perhaps you should test it by yourself, and see what it can do in real time. Though it was difficult a few years ago for the common folk to get a Mini Box working (you had to hack a mini radioshack radio 12-587) now Ghost Hunting sites are selling them ready to use. (http://www.ghoststop...unting-s/59.htm)

I am not convinced of that. The reason is simple: You ask direct questions and can get direct answers. It's possible to hold a coherent conversation with the voice(s) coming out of the box. So, while I think chunks of commercial broadcasts do get mixed up and can be misinterpreted, pushing the coincidence too far doesn't explain what people are experiencing.

Is it possible that some kind of entities can communicate through that in real time EVPs? I think it should not be ruled out so quickly.

Look up Franks Box schematic and see for yourself. It is a simple radio receiver.

Pareidolia and researcher bias. You are relying entirely on your perception which is fine if you are just looking for a thrill. You seem a little too smart for that though.

Edited by sinewave
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Mini Boxes are fascinating, I never used one but I've seen some very interesting results. It's popularity among the paranormal communities is rising for it has shown potential.

Aside from Huffparanormal, KBeeze13 is quite active on youtube as well: http://www.youtube.c...3?feature=watch

Perhaps you should test it by yourself, and see what it can do in real time. Though it was difficult a few years ago for the common folk to get a Mini Box working (you had to hack a mini radioshack radio 12-587) now Ghost Hunting sites are selling them ready to use. (http://www.ghoststop...unting-s/59.htm)

I am not convinced of that. The reason is simple: You ask direct questions and can get direct answers. It's possible to hold a coherent conversation with the voice(s) coming out of the box. So, while I think chunks of commercial broadcasts do get mixed up and can be misinterpreted, pushing the coincidence too far doesn't explain what people are experiencing.

Is it possible that some kind of entities can communicate through that in real time EVPs? I think it should not be ruled out so quickly.

The ghost, spirit, Franks box is built around this item right here. http://www.datasheetcatalog.com/datasheets_pdf/L/A/1/8/LA1816.shtml It is an AM/FM tuner.

Edited by sinewave

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I am aware of that. What we call a ''Ghost Box'' , ''Spirit Box'' or ''Mini Box'' are essentially simple radios that have the fonction to scan through the AM/FM bands until they find a radio station available. These radio can be modifed of hacked to endlessly scan the bands, passing the stations for about a fractions of a second and creating statics and white noises.

It is theorized that entites can communicate by manipulating the static white noise and create voices sometimes using multiple frequencies. It is far from been proved but according to many paranormal investigators, there is a potential in the device and it gave interesting results.

For the common folks, it was not necesserely easy to create a ''spirit'' box for you had to modified a radio yourself. The most popular were the mini Radio Shack radio 12-587 or 12-469, you could get one for 25$ and were the ''easier'' to transform into a portable 'Mini Box'. Here's how to do it: http://www.ghost-tech.com/box_hack.php

Now, there is no need for that, for about 50$ anyone interested to try can get one ready to use on Ghost Hunting sites. The P-SB7 Spirit Box been the less expensive model.

Edited by sam_comm

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Ghosts tend to disappear when the data resolution is high. Adding random noise by misusing electronic devices serves only to appeal to pareidolia. It may seem to make things clearer but it is only forcing perceptual miscues.

Edited by sinewave

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That depend, auditory pareidolia is a tendancy of the brain when to look for patterns and ''fill the void'' with informations. I think that audtitive pareidolia can be a factor especially when the audio is very bad and the results incoherent. No doubt it could explain various things heard out of the box. Some people will hear what they want, that's true.

Does that mean all one can hear from a modified radio come from his imagination? I have my doubts. I find strange that 4 or 5 people hearing the same things in a Ghost Box experience are often ''filling the void'' with the exact same informations. However I am not totally ''sold'' to the device and I will wait for more documentations and experiences to have a clear opinion and assessment.

If I accept the possiblity that entites can interact with us in some ways or that a subconscious mind can create a psychic phenomenon that are the causes of these voices, then it's not illogic to at least consider that it could be the case. I am open-minded with regards to the causes but will not jump to a conclusion, rational or not without satisfying evidences.

Edited by sam_comm

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That depend, auditory pareidolia is a tendancy of the brain when to look for patterns and ''fill the void'' with informations. I think that audtitive pareidolia can be a factor especially when the audio is very bad and the results incoherent. No doubt it could explain various things heard out of the box. Some people will hear what they want, that's true.

Yes, and the longer a person is exposed to random stimuli the more likely they are to start "decoding" it.

Does that mean all one can hear from a modified radio come from his imagination? I have my doubts. I find strange that 4 or 5 people hearing the same things in a Ghost Box experience are often ''filling the void'' with the exact same informations. However I am not totally ''sold'' to the device and I will wait for more documentations and experiences to have a clear opinion and assessment.

A better question is, based on the tendency for people to find patterns, is there any reason to believe anything coming out of such a radio scanner would be more than random noise? Human perception is an amazing thing but is also horribly flawed. You cannot rely on perception alone as evidence of anything.

If I accept the possiblity that entites can interact with us in some ways or that a subconscious mind can create a psychic phenomenon that are the causes of these voices, then it's not illogic to at least consider that it could be the case. I am open-minded with regards to the causes but will not jump to a conclusion, rational or not without satisfying evidences.

You are attempting to construct a reality that supports your belief rather than critically analyzing the belief for plausibility. :)

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Yes, and the longer a person is exposed to random stimuli the more likely they are to start "decoding" it.

Or they will get better distinguish it! A person attempting the experience many times might be able to sort out in a more efficient way what can be considered clear words and what should be left out.

A better question is, based on the tendency for people to find patterns, is there any reason to believe anything coming out of such a radio scanner would be more than random noise? Human perception is an amazing thing but is also horribly flawed. You cannot rely on perception alone as evidence of anything..

The concept is still very much experimental so I can't personally give a definitive answer. But there has been some interesting experiment done with it. I don't think anyone will prove the existence of entites based on that device but it can possibly serve as a tool to attempt communication and might very well be improved in years to come. Some ingeneers are working in the developpement of various technologies for the use of Paranormal investigations so the possiblity of making a discovery which will allow to further the field of research is there.

You are attempting to construct a reality that supports your belief rather than critically analyzing the belief for plausibility. :)

Quite the contrary. I am open to various possiblities concerning the ghost box and I've yet to see more experiment done with it. But sometimes, in looking for the simplest explanations, we can miss something bigger. I feel that pareidolia can explain some of what is experienced but I can't say definitly and convincingly that's all there is to it. You seem to dismiss and rule out anything that might be unscientific so I would equally say that you try to maintain your own reality without critically and objectively analyzing the possibilites.

Edited by sam_comm

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Or they will get better distinguish it! A person attempting the experience many times might be able to sort out in a more efficient way what can be considered clear words and what should be left out.

What happens to people who are placed in sensory deprivation too long? Panic sets in and rational thought becomes difficult or impossible. The same has been observed when people are exposed to white noise and other unstructured random stimuli. It does not enhance perception it takes it away.

The concept is still very much experimental so I can't personally give a definitive answer. But there has been some interesting experiment done with it. I don't think anyone will prove the existence of entites based on that device but it can possibly serve as a tool to attempt communication and might very well be improved in years to come. Some ingeneers are working in the developpement of various technologies for the use of Paranormal investigations so the possiblity of making a discovery which will allow to further the field of research is there.

Experimental implies science is at work. Science requires evidence. The beliefs surrounding the Franks box are wild speculation.

Quite the contrary. I am open to various possiblities concerning the ghost box and I've yet to see more experiment done with it. But sometimes, in looking for the simplest explanations, we can miss something bigger. I feel that pareidolia can explain some of what is experienced but I can't say definitly and convincingly that's all there is to it. You seem to dismiss and rule out anything that might be unscientific so I would equally say that you try to maintain your own reality without critically and objectively analyzing the possibilites.

The fact 999 out of 1000 people see the "face" on Mars does not make it a face. There should be no surprise people would hear intelligible voices on a Franks box. Radio stations spend a lot of money to keep their signals strong and clean. That someone would assign meaning to the radio guacamole produced by that device is a stretch of fantasy and imagination.

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What happens to people who are placed in sensory deprivation too long? Panic sets in and rational thought becomes difficult or impossible. The same has been observed when people are exposed to white noise and other unstructured random stimuli. It does not enhance perception it takes it away.

I don't disagree with that but you're refering to extreme cases of people deprivated for a long period of time. Experimentating ghost box sessions reasonably doesn't left you unable to distinguish what you clearly hear and what you can't. When in doubt, throw in the garbage. You'll be left with what is coherent and clear. If there is nothing left, then so be it.

The fact 999 out of 1000 people see the "face" on Mars does not make it a face. There should be no surprise people would hear intelligible voices on a Franks box. Radio stations spend a lot of money to keep their signals strong and clean. That someone would assign meaning to the radio guacamole produced by that device is a stretch of fantasy and imagination.

For all we know, a Ghost Box could be used as a mean among others to communicate. The fact that pareidolia and misinterpreations can occur doesn't necesserely exclude other causes. If you take the exemple of Ouija sessions or EVP sessions, there has been cases where pareidolia and the ideomotor effect can be excluded as it does not give a satisfyng explanation to a phenomenon. I am skeptical of an EVP when you have to strain to understand it. That to me, is where pareidolia take place. But if I hear an EVP clear as day, as I can hear someone talking, then it can be seriously considered.

According to some people, you can't hear anything out of an electronical device without it been pareidolia and that is pushing it too far.

Edited by sam_comm

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I don't disagree with that but you're refering to extreme cases of people deprivated for a long period of time. Experimentating ghost box sessions reasonably doesn't left you unable to distinguish what you clearly hear and what you can't. When in doubt, throw in the garbage. You'll be left with what is coherent and clear. If there is nothing left, then so be it.

It is well established fact the human brain will attempt to find structure in chaos. It is a far more probable cause than are voices from beyond.

For all we know, a Ghost Box could be used as a mean among others to communicate. The fact that pareidolia and misinterpreations can occur doesn't necesserely exclude other causes. If you take the exemple of Ouija sessions or EVP sessions, there has been cases where pareidolia and the ideomotor phenomenon can be excluded as it does not give a satisfyng explanation to an experience. I am skeptical of an EVP when you have to strain to understand it. That to me, is where pareidolia take place. But if I hear an EVP clear as day, as I can hear someone talking, then it can be seriously considered.

For all we know? We know it is a radio receiver that randomly scans heavily used sections of the RF spectrum. We know those RF bands are virtually certain to contain the voices of real live humans. We also know that pareidolia is a readily observable and universal perceptual phenomenon. Given those verifiable facts, pareidolia is by far the most likely explanation for this alleged phenomenon. That does not mean ghosts don't exist, it only means you have a really tough task if you hope to elevate the notion from belief to science.

According to some people, you can't hear anything out of an electronical device without it been pareidolia and that is pushing it too far.

Well, not really. The evidence is squarely against it. More importantly, the burden of proof lies with the claimer. Until you can prove there is something meaningful in that noise, the notion remains a highly improbable hypothesis in the eyes of science.

Edited by sinewave
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It is well established fact the human brain will attempt to find structure in chaos. It is a far more probable cause than are voices from beyond.

The same is said concerning EVPs and Ouija sessions, that here is nothing more to it than pareidolia and the idemotor effect but a very interesting documentation gathered over the years of experiences with these devices point to something more. Is it scientific proof, not at all but I don't see how these phenomenon should be considered illegitimate. It could be that in some cases the Spirit box can produce the same range of phenomenon that are not related to pareidolia.

For all we know? We know it is a radio receiver that randomly scans heavily used sections of the RF spectrum. We know those RF bands are virtually certain to contain the voices of real live humans. We also know that pareidolia is a readily observable and universal perceptual phenomenon. Given those verifiable facts, pareidolia is by far the most likely explanation for this alleged phenomenon. That does not mean ghosts don't exist, it only means you have a really tough task if you hope to elevate the notion from belief to science.

The scientific explanations are not in doubt here, we all know that pareidolia is common and that misinterprations of radio stations' broadcasts can be easily made if one is not careful. The scientific explanations can probably explain many cases. The question is and what we do not know is could an entity communicate through that? I am open-minded to the possbility and according to the documentations one can find with other means used in paranormal circles such as EVPs recordings and Ouija boards which have given interesting results than it may not be ludicrous to think that a Spirit Box could serve this purpose as well. If energy beings do exists, which is an hypothesis, it may be that they can manipulate the radio waves and influence frequencies. More data need to be gathered before jumping to a conclusion.

Well, not really. The evidence is squarely against it. More importantly, the burden of proof lies with the claimer. Until you can prove there is something meaningful in that noise, the notion remains a highly improbable hypothesis in the eyes of science.

Science is still very much a work in progress and history tells us that sometimes highly imprable hypothesis in the eyes of science becomes reality. I am not saying it is the case here ou would be, but since science do not recognize paranormal phenomenon as legit, I am skeptical of this claim. Unfortunately, a person's experience cannnot necesserely be proved in a scientific method and if the phenomenon is in itself it both objective/subjective and elusive, you'll have a hard time 'proving' that to a skeptical community. Especially when the scientific evidence are ''squarely'' against you.

Condemnation without investigation is the height of ignorance.” Albert Einstein

Edited by sam_comm

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The same is said concerning EVPs and Ouija sessions, that here is nothing more to it than pareidolia and the idemotor effect but a very interesting documentation gathered over the years of experiences with these devices point to something more. Is it scientific proof, not at all but I don't see how these phenomenon should be considered illegitimate. It could be that in some cases the Spirit box can produce the same range of phenomenon that are not related to pareidolia.

Have you ever looked at any of the common ghost busting tools critically? Have you ever asked why they are believed to work? It is because someone just decided they do, that's why. The fact is, their effectiveness is based solely on the perception. Of course there are lots of problems with this because proponents quickly paint themselves into a corner.

The scientific explanations are not in doubt here, we all know that pareidolia is common and that misinterprations of radio stations' broadcasts can be easily made if one is not careful. The scientific explanations can probably explain many cases. The question is and what we do not know is could an entity communicate through that? I am open-minded to the possbility and according to the documentations one can find with other means used in paranormal circles such as EVPs recordings and Ouija boards which have given interesting results than it may not be ludicrous to think that a Spirit Box could serve this purpose as well. If energy beings do exists, which is an hypothesis, it may be that they can manipulate the radio waves and influence frequencies. More data need to be gathered before jumping to a conclusion.

Well, I would not say all. There are many here who would claim to not be immune to pareidolia. The fact is, if ghosts communicate on the AM/FM bands we would have been hearing them over our radios for years. Doesn't that make sense?

As for energy beings, the same person who will tell you their EMF meter can identify ghosts will probably also tell you that science is not advanced enough to understand ghosts. Do you see the conflicting assertions? Are we really to believe our understandings of quantum mechanics and thermodynamics are inadequate to test the idea of ghosts but some guy with a cheap magnetometer can do it all day long? It cannot be both ways!

Persistent energy clouds do not exist anywhere in the observable Universe and run contrary to the way energy behaves. Thermodynamics stipulates that energy will flow from regions of high concentration to regions of lower concentration by the shortest available path until equilibrium is reached. In other words, energy rapidly diffuses into its surroundings. If there were indeed free roaming energy "beings" they would likely be everywhere and would certainly have been noticed by someone with credentials by now. Finding such a field would be Nobel Prize stuff.

Science is still very much a work in progress and history tells us that sometimes highly imprable hypothesis in the eyes of science becomes reality. I am not saying it is the case here ou would be, but since science do not recognize paranormal phenomenon as legit, I am skeptical of this claim. Unfortunately, a person's experience cannnot necesserely be proved in a scientific method and if the phenomenon is in itself it both objective/subjective and elusive, you'll have a hard time 'proving' that to a skeptical community. Especially when the scientific evidence are ''squarely'' against you.

Condemnation without investigation is the height of ignorance.” Albert Einstein

By its very nature, science will always be a work in progress. The fact that some hypotheses required more work that others to become accepted theory does not make other hypotheses any more valid. That is a good Einstein quote but it does not apply in this case. Einstein was not advocating belief without evidence. A little research will reveal his feelings about belief.

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Have you ever looked at any of the common ghost busting tools critically? Have you ever asked why they are believed to work? It is because someone just decided they do, that's why. The fact is, their effectiveness is based solely on the perception. Of course there are lots of problems with this because proponents quickly paint themselves into a corner.

As far as I know, DVR, handhanld camera, audio recorders does work because we decided they do, you have to set them, power them and monitore them. But the technology is objective, unless you tamper a footage to make it ''believable''. That is not the case for serious investigators. What they capture or record is what is there fro all to see and hear and not to perceive in an altered state of mind..

Af for the EMF meters and thermomether I have my reserve but I see the relevance to use them. It is possible that a high EMF field can be generated in a house which can potentially be harmful and create side effects such as fatigue and stress. Investigators want to rule out that possiblity hence the use of a EMF decteor. Others, believe that EMF fluctuations can be cause by a spirit activity but I am skeptical of this claim. It's an hypothesis.

In an investigations, it is not uncommon to experience temperature fluctuations, or ''cold spot'', It seems logical to me to use a thermomether to measure the temperature fluctuations of a room and validate and document the phenomenon.

Of course, these tools are not always used properly, I fin ridiculous to see in some paranoral tv show the guys handing is thermomether in a window and say ''here is a drop or 2 degree!! Others uses EMF detector in front of a microwave and are excited by their ''findings''.

As for energy beings, the same person who will tell you their EMF meter can identify ghosts will probably also tell you that science is not advanced enough to understand ghosts. Do you see the conflicting assertions? Are we really to believe our understandings of quantum mechanics and thermodynamics are inadequate to test the idea of ghosts but some guy with a cheap magnetometer can do it all day long? It cannot be both ways!

The widespread idea among paranormal investigators is that that ''ghost'' can emit electromagnetic field and that there presence can thus be detected using an EMF meters. There is no proofs that it is the case so it remain a speculative. Some therefore will use it to test the theory or find high EMF sources.

If ''ghost'' really exist, which is a possiblity, therefore it seems logical to say that the science is not there yet. The equiments to detect the manifestation of ''ghost'' is used to work according to some hypothesis and theories. if you want to research this field, you have to start somewhere.

By its very nature, science will always be a work in progress. The fact that some hypotheses required more work that others to become accepted theory does not make other hypotheses any more valid. That is a good Einstein quote but it does not apply in this case. Einstein was not advocating belief without evidence. A little research will reveal his feelings about belief.

I agree with you. But if if we had to stop and give up researching each time ideas and controversial hypothesises were put forward and rejected, I wonder where science would be today.

The Esinstein quote make sens not only in this case but in the field of research of the paranormal. Condamnation without throughout investigations is ignorance. Whether there is no repoducable proofs is not yet the question here, but if you have preconveiced ideas about a concept or an idea, you already condamn.

Edited by sam_comm

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Albert Einstein** Sorry for the misspellings, I couldn't Edit my above post for some reason.

Edited by sam_comm

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As far as I know, DVR, handhanld camera, audio recorders does work because we decided they do, you have to set them, power them and monitore them. But the technology is objective, unless you tamper a footage to make it ''believable''. That is not the case for serious investigators. What they capture or record is what is there fro all to see and hear and not to perceive in an altered state of mind.

Before anyone can call themselves a serious investigator they have to be acutely aware of everything that can impact their results. That means actually understanding the equipment and it limitations. Do you know how accurate your EMF meter is? Can it even be calibrated? Real science would find ways to control out noise. That's just the beginning. You have to run baseline test to establish what is "normal" before anything can be called an anomaly. Most ghost busters don't have the stomach (or brains?) for mapping proper analytic methods. That's just the surface.

Af for the EMF meters and thermomether I have my reserve but I see the relevance to use them. It is possible that a high EMF field can be generated in a house which can potentially be harmful and create side effects such as fatigue and stress. Investigators want to rule out that possiblity hence the use of a EMF decteor. Others, believe that EMF fluctuations can be cause by a spirit activity but I am skeptical of this claim. It's an hypothesis.

In an investigations, it is not uncommon to experience temperature fluctuations, or ''cold spot'', It seems logical to me to use a thermomether to measure the temperature fluctuations of a room and validate and document the phenomenon.

Without a sound reason for using them i.e. some established data, you have no idea what you are measuring. Again, you are doing it only because someone told you it works. There is no science to back it up. With enough rationalization, you could use pendulums and mood rings just as effectively. As I have stated in other posts, magnetic flux is a fact of life . Unless you are in a very specially constructed environment, it is impossible to not experience varying levels of EM flux. The same goes for thermometers. The whole cold spot thing is based on perception. There are lots of reasons for cold spots or why people would THINK was a cold spot. Those have to be taken into account too.

Of course, these tools are not always used properly, I fin ridiculous to see in some paranoral tv show the guys handing is thermomether in a window and say ''here is a drop or 2 degree!! Others uses EMF detector in front of a microwave and are excited by their ''findings''.

They are almost never used properly. EMF meters (including the K2) are meant to provide loose numbers and are far from being precision devices. The circuitry flaws alone can account for meter swings considered significant by ghost busters. They are not intended to be accurate or sensitive to slight changes.

The widespread idea among paranormal investigators is that that ''ghost'' can emit electromagnetic field and that there presence can thus be detected using an EMF meters. There is no proofs that it is the case so it remain a speculative. Some therefore will use it to test the theory or find high EMF sources.

If ''ghost'' really exist, which is a possiblity, therefore it seems logical to say that the science is not there yet. The equiments to detect the manifestation of ''ghost'' is used to work according to some hypothesis and theories. if you want to research this field, you have to start somewhere.

They believe ghosts emit EM fields because there is so much of it to be had. As I said, try to find a place that doesn't have measurable ambient EM fields.

Given the assertions about ghost busting devices, how is that at all logical to say science it not there yet? If a $20 EMF meter or other bits of consumer electronics can detect a ghost, our current level of science is clearly good enough. No? It is not science that is lacking, it is the supporting evidence.

I agree with you. But if if we had to stop and give up researching each time ideas and controversial hypothesises were put forward and rejected, I wonder where science would be today.

The Esinstein quote make sens not only in this case but in the field of research of the paranormal. Condamnation without throughout investigations is ignorance. Whether there is no repoducable proofs is not yet the question here, but if you have preconveiced ideas about a concept or an idea, you already condamn.

It is NOT rejected by science. Reread that last sentence. The idea is not rejected it is merely considered to be highly improbable. There is a huge difference between the two approaches.

As I said, Einstein was not advocating belief without evidence, he was insisting that scientific method be followed to see if an idea has merit before discounting it. Science does not operate on feelings or wild assertions. Like it or not, that is what the foundation of the ghost hypothesis is made of.

Albert Einstein** Sorry for the misspellings, I couldn't Edit my above post for some reason.

Heh, no problem. I misspell it most of the time myself. :)

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Before anyone can call themselves a serious investigator they have to be acutely aware of everything that can impact their results. That means actually understanding the equipment and it limitations. Do you know how accurate your EMF meter is? Can it even be calibrated? Real science would find ways to control out noise. That's just the beginning. You have to run baseline test to establish what is "normal" before anything can be called an anomaly. Most ghost busters don't have the stomach (or brains?) for mapping proper analytic methods. That's just the surface.

This can be learned and put in pratice with some researches and expert recommendations. Some investigators are well organized and informed, you might be surprised. Unfortunately not everyone is, and we can sometimes see that on TV.

The lack of reproducable proofs is not necesserely due to the use of the equiments or the ''non-existence'' of what we call ghost. It may be the nature of the phenomenon. If you take the exemple of dark matter, accoding to scientists it's all around us, in your kitchen and bedroom, making up the galaxies. It has not yet been detected and therefore remain hypothetical. But it make sens to think that it does exist, for it would corroborate observations and estimations.

We also don't exactly know when a supernova will burst, but when it does we can observe it and document it. It appear for a limited amount of time an then stop.

Without a sound reason for using them i.e. some established data, you have no idea what you are measuring. Again, you are doing it only because someone told you it works. There is no science to back it up. With enough rationalization, you could use pendulums and mood rings just as effectively. As I have stated in other posts, magnetic flux is a fact of life . Unless you are in a very specially constructed environment, it is impossible to not experience varying levels of EM flux. The same goes for thermometers. The whole cold spot thing is based on perception. There are lots of reasons for cold spots or why people would THINK was a cold spot. Those have to be taken into account too.

Professor Johnjoe McFadden from the School of Biomedical and Life Sciences at the University of Surrey proposes that the conscious mind consists of an electromagnetic field, a field that does not disintegrate when we die. The firing of electrical impulses along nerves in the brain is sort of like an alternating current system as well, but with a lot more directions and cascade effects.

Source: http://io9.com/58752...unters-swear-by

The theory of ''ghost'' made of electrical residue find his way up to the academic level. It's an hypothesis though, and as all hypothesis it needs to be tested and experienced. Investigators make a ''base reading'' and measure the EMF of the room. Any significant fluctuation will be noticed on the meter. What I find interesting with the application this tool in paranormal investigations, even though I am not wholly convinced of it's full effectiveness is that it can be served to corroborate a personal experience as well as detect high EFM field that can be harmful in a house. A team hear a banging sound in a room, taking a reading with the EMF meter they notice an usual spike and then it drop to the base reading.

The science is not necesserely there to back it up but since ''ghost'' are considered highly improbable this field of research is also considered highly disputable so you've to test things and developpe a methodology that can be based on science, yes, but exploring new grounds that allow you to gather objective results for all to see.

They believe ghosts emit EM fields because there is so much of it to be had. As I said, try to find a place that doesn't have measurable ambient EM fields.

Given the assertions about ghost busting devices, how is that at all logical to say science it not there yet? If a $20 EMF meter or other bits of consumer electronics can detect a ghost, our current level of science is clearly good enough. No? It is not science that is lacking, it is the supporting evidence.

According to a study made in 2008 (http://www.ct.gov/dp...heet_-_2008.pdf) 50% of the average American home has EMF levels of 0.6 Mg or less and 95% had an average below 3Mg.

The EMF levels can be higher, 5Mg or more if you're near appliances, wires and circuit breakers.

A serious investigator is aware of that and will do regular base readings of a room and take note of it. There is measurable ambiant fields everywhere, that is well known. What is anormal is high EMF spikes out of thin air, at times following a previous event.

Edited by sam_comm

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This can be learned and put in pratice with some researches and expert recommendations. Some investigators are well organized and informed, you might be surprised. Unfortunately not everyone is, and we can sometimes see that on TV.

You pretty much have to have the background of an RF engineer / scientist to fully understand the problem set. Not to mention some pretty heavy resources. None of the TV ghost teams do anything even remotely resembling science. My favorites are those two buffoons from Texas with the ghost lab trailer. Some of the most ridiculous s#it I have ever heard on the subject came out of their mouths.

The lack of reproducable proofs is not necesserely due to the use of the equiments or the ''non-existence'' of what we call ghost. It may be the nature of the phenomenon. If you take the exemple of dark matter, accoding to scientists it's all around us, in your kitchen and bedroom, making up the galaxies. It has not yet been detected and therefore remain hypothetical. But it make sens to think that it does exist, for it would corroborate observations and estimations.

We also don't exactly know when a supernova will burst, but when it does we can observe it and document it. It appear for a limited amount of time an then stop.

Dark matter is difficult to observe but there is a readily observable visible effect on light over great distances (in the form of gravitational lensing). It is not hypothetical as much as it is not understood.

Professor Johnjoe McFadden from the School of Biomedical and Life Sciences at the University of Surrey proposes that the conscious mind consists of an electromagnetic field, a field that does not disintegrate when we die. The firing of electrical impulses along nerves in the brain is sort of like an alternating current system as well, but with a lot more directions and cascade effects.

Source: http://io9.com/58752...unters-swear-by

The brain is electrochemical so the field certainly could continue for a short time after death. It won't hang about indefinitely, just until the neuro-chemicals are exhausted - like a battery.

The theory of ''ghost'' made of electrical residue find his way up to the academic level. It's an hypothesis though, and as all hypothesis it needs to be tested and experienced. Investigators make a ''base reading'' and measure the EMF of the room. Any significant fluctuation will be noticed on the meter. What I find interesting with the application this tool in paranormal investigations, even though I am not wholly convinced of it's full effectiveness is that it can be served to corroborate a personal experience as well as detect high EFM field that can be harmful in a house. A team hear a banging sound in a room, taking a reading with the EMF meter they notice an usual spike and then it drop to the base reading.

The science is not necesserely there to back it up but since ''ghost'' are considered highly improbable this field of research is also considered highly disputable so you've to test things and developpe a methodology that can be based on science, yes, but exploring new grounds that allow you to gather objective results for all to see.

The room would have to be a very tight Faraday cage.

According to a study made in 2008 (http://www.ct.gov/dp...heet_-_2008.pdf) 50% of the average American home has EMF levels of 0.6 Mg or less and 95% had an average below 3Mg.

The EMF levels can be higher, 5Mg or more if you're near appliances, wires and circuit breakers.

A serious investigator is aware of that and will do regular base readings of a room and take note of it. There is measurable ambiant fields everywhere, that is well known. What is anormal is high EMF spikes out of thin air, at times following a previous event.

Yep. There are lots of things that can push that number up even if for only a few seconds at a time. In any given location there are many possible variables.

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I have gotten many Evps they are real there are some good ghost box videos on u tube

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I have gotten many Evps they are real there are some good ghost box videos on u tube

I'll bet there are. The bastion of truth and integrity. You know it is an AM/FM radio, right? That is why you hear voices.

Great avatar BTW.

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You pretty much have to have the background of an RF engineer / scientist to fully understand the problem set. Not to mention some pretty heavy resources. None of the TV ghost teams do anything even remotely resembling science. My favorites are those two buffoons from Texas with the ghost lab trailer. Some of the most ridiculous s#it I have ever heard on the subject came out of their mouths.

Not necesserely. An electrician, a plomber, a magician can contribute to this field of research. Even the guy who work at Target can be good for problems solving. This is what we call citizen science.

Formally, citizen science has been defined as "the systematic collection and analysis of data; development of technology; testing of natural phenomena; and the dissemination of these activities by researchers on a primarily avocational basis".Citizen science is sometimes called "public participation in scientific research."

Source: Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia....Citizen_science)

Just like in amateur astronomy and ufology, these person can contribute among other things by gathering data and building new equiments, that might be useful if ever mainstream scientists need to study this field they will have a database and plenty of materials to look at.

By the way, Paranormal investigations is not done solely on TV and let's bear in mind that these show are for entertainment purpose first and that most of the research in this field is not done in front of TV camera.

The brain is electrochemical so the field certainly could continue for a short time after death. It won't hang about indefinitely, just until the neuro-chemicals are exhausted - like a battery.

We do not know for sure if the counsciousness can survive death and if the electromagnetic field is desintergrated shortly after . It would be rash to speak with certainty on this topic as it stands today. There are aspects we do not seem to fully comprehend and needless to say it is such a complex subject.

Some Neuroscientists are less shy to raise the topic. One famous Harvard trained neurosurgeon, Eben Alexander even wrote a best seller book Proof Of Heaven describing his NDE.

Mario Beauregard. Phd of University of Montreal was quoted for his comment on a book concerning research on the afterlife:

“This important book about near-death experiences provides compelling evidence that mind and consciousness cannot be reduced to brain activity.” — Mario Beauregard, Ph.D., Neuroscientist at the University of Montreal and co-author of The Spiritual Brain

This is a good article as well: http://www2.macleans...he-heaven-boom/

Yep. There are lots of things that can push that number up even if for only a few seconds at a time. In any given location there are many possible variables.

There can be natural reasons for a fluctuation, I don't disagree. The first step is to rule out any man-made fluctuation or natural causes. Look for lamps, electrical outlets, Wifi routers ect. In all cases, I don't think anyone has ever taken a EMF reading as a definitive proof of ghost, rather a unusual fluctuations following a personal experience can serve to back up this experience as you have a data that can potentially corroborate it.

Edited by sam_comm

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I have been following Steve Huff and some others for quite awhile now.. Of course the ONLY way to satisfy this curiosity is going to be trying it for ourselves. There is always going to be people that say its hoax or its gibberish words being plucked from radio stations.. I find it VERY compelling so many people from so many different countries around the world get such similar results. for example, hearing their own names said, multiple times... or having objects correctly Identified. Can we trust all of those people.. No, of course not! Out of so many people, even if just a fraction are legit...its still well worth the first hand checking.. dontchya think? I hope you do get a ghost box/spirit box! I would love to hear about your testing the method! I hope to try it eventually myself. Make sure you have a voice recorder and use that EVERY time you use your spirit box. Don't want to hear something amazing come through and not have it recorded.. Just in case!

GOOD LUCK!

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